Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

[Phobia]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

I keep reading this.

Yet, if I put Rolando McClain on a WR, the WR is so open it's stupid. Tevin Ash and his 25 MCV is like...what zip code are you in, Tevin? The WR is <--------------that way.

Heck, McClain can't cover a TE that well most of the time. The only LB I have that can is a draftee with 85 MCV - and he's going to get left behind by a WR (not enough SPD and AGI unless the WR has trash RTE).

I have TRIED to do this intentionally just so I can see it - but it never works. Just like people say SPD is all you need at WR. Yet, as the Raiders, Ford is crap (when he's not hurt), DHB I traded ASAP (and laughed as he dropped like 10 passes in the three games I faced Denver, who got him somehow). If the "SPD only" paradigm worked, the Raiders would be the perfect team - yet, I have slower...and better... WR. Moore is the only one I have that's strong - and he has much more than SPD going for him.

Is this another issue mainly about online?

KB I want to show you a video I did last year for Madden 12. Now I have seen this very same thing this year in Madden 13 and I can make a video if need be. The reason for this and why Linebackers can cover WRs at times is they are not penalized to change directions with a foot plant. They at times will just turn 90 degrees and follow the WR full speed. Yet the WR is forced to plant his foot and change direction.

So the problem came from the defenders not being forced to use the same animations as the WRs

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/a4kNuTpegjc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[huskerwr38]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

Phobs and Husker;

I feel it's not the developers/designers you need to send your message, it's getting in the ear of marketing and the suits above.

Developers/designers have all the ideas in the world and then, along comes the marketing and managerial higher-ups that put a kibosh on those ideas and "glam" it up.

I understand that is part of it, but why is FIFA such a great game that is more substance than glam? EA is capable of producing a good sports game, but I'm not sure EA Tiburon is.

[roadman]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

Maybe there isn't as many layers with EA Canada?

[KingV2k3]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

Thanks Road - I revised the post.

@ KB, aren't you using your own tailored set to get the results you're getting? That would make your findings arbitrary since it's not the default all 50/50 online matchmaking setup which is what LBz was telling you about: that you have not faced that fire so you wouldn't know what it's like to be burned Onilne with their all 50 set and how finicky it can be.

I think we all know the potential of the game within the slider modifications that can be made there. At ground level though that is where we want to see immediate changes - I think that's the main gripe we're expressing within this thread is how the game is packaged by default. By default we should essentialy get a professional football game that simulates what occurs in real life, authentically and respectfully.

I think it's important to mention that, as "superior" titles like NBA 2k and The Show are to this game, they still BOTH require massive roster and gameplay edits as well as serious slider "tweak-age" to get humming along sim style...

Maybe FIFA is a different case, but ALL the titles I play(ed) (Madden / NCAA / NBA2k / The Show / CHoops / MVP Baseball / Etc) needed some TLC...

Maybe not as much as the title we are discussing, and maybe to a more satisfying end result...

But still...

I'm still working within the confines of the game's poor programming. It's less that even a decent mod job on a PC game, imo, where you could do some reprogramming, write some AI scripts, etc.

I agree that out of the box, stuff should work like real football. I just don't think all of what's there is completely useless. Needs heavy editing, yes, but I don't necessarily think the whole paper should be burned and re-written. Wouldn't shed a tear if it was - I'd be eager to see the new concepts, but I won't shed a tear if it isn't. Only if it's the same paper with no meaningful editing done.

But, I get it. I'll just go back to my corner and keep quiet.

As I have stated time and again, I have no problem with "solving the puzzle" that is Madden in the process of beating some decent football out of it...

In fact, that's a major part of my enjoyment with this title...

I understand that is part of it, but why is FIFA such a great game that is more substance than glam? EA is capable of producing a good sports game, but I'm not sure EA Tiburon is.

I wonder if the "Governing Body" that supervises FIFAs involvement with EA makes them less "nervous and jerky" than "The Shield" does?

[ABR173rd]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

For anyone who was interested in a follow up to this article, this was just posted a couple hours ago in regards to future attribute blogs by Clint.


"I know there's been a big following of my STR rating blog so I want to give an update for upcoming information. I will not be writing another piece until we get closer to launch. Initially this sounds like bad news, but it's actually very exciting. We are in the process of making an official series of presentations to promote Madden 14 as the release approaches. Hopefully the last piece I put out was enough to wet your whistle in anticipation of more in-depth ratings discussions in the coming months. So stay tuned and keep posting the stuff you want to know about. I will use your feedback and answer your questions when the time is right! If its in the game!"

So basically EA has now taken something that should either be included in an instruction booklet or within the game itself and turned it into a promotional item for Madden 14.....

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

I sense your "glee" in that last stanza ^ :=)

Wait till ya'll see my ratings analysis on Madden. This man who is blogging is still part of the maddness. It's the system that's full of madness and until the system gets fixed - I don't give a damn to know what your convoluted crap shoot spits out in theory, Olden...

[Phobia]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

For anyone who was interested in a follow up to this article, this was just posted a couple hours ago in regards to future attribute blogs by Clint.


"I know there's been a big following of my STR rating blog so I want to give an update for upcoming information. I will not be writing another piece until we get closer to launch. Initially this sounds like bad news, but it's actually very exciting. We are in the process of making an official series of presentations to promote Madden 14 as the release approaches. Hopefully the last piece I put out was enough to wet your whistle in anticipation of more in-depth ratings discussions in the coming months. So stay tuned and keep posting the stuff you want to know about. I will use your feedback and answer your questions when the time is right! If its in the game!"

So basically EA has now taken something that should either be included in an instruction booklet or within the game itself and turned it into a promotional item for Madden 14.....

This is how I feel about this. So close to scoring and doing something good, instead they throw it away and look stupid doing it

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

For anyone who was interested in a follow up to this article, this was just posted a couple hours ago in regards to future attribute blogs by Clint.


"I know there's been a big following of my STR rating blog so I want to give an update for upcoming information. I will not be writing another piece until we get closer to launch. Initially this sounds like bad news, but it's actually very exciting. We are in the process of making an official series of presentations to promote Madden 14 as the release approaches. Hopefully the last piece I put out was enough to wet your whistle in anticipation of more in-depth ratings discussions in the coming months. So stay tuned and keep posting the stuff you want to know about. I will use your feedback and answer your questions when the time is right! If its in the game!"

So basically EA has now taken something that should either be included in an instruction booklet or within the game itself and turned it into a promotional item for Madden 14.....

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

To elaborate, at this point I just have to laugh at the seeming cluelessness coming out of EA Tiburon about Madden. Phobia sir, this is what I was mentioning earlier in this thread about how those working on the current game seem satisfied and proud of the end product. I am not trying to degrade Clint or any other Madden dev but if they can't acknowledge what a football mess the current game is then I don't see any chance of it getting better. He writes the explanation of how the STR rating works and comes across as just fine with it, then proceeds to hype the release of even more likely nonsensical ratings explanations, in lieu of M14. smh

I often use the tale of "The Emperor's New Clothes" to describe next-gen Madden because it is so apt.

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

Dude! You got me laughing out loud with that Gif.. read the first few in bold and just burst out laughing when I caught the image caption lol classic! And so true - a picture truly does speak a thousand million words

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

Hit the nail on the head. Madden is trying to be bigger than the game itself. I've always thought that sports game designers have it easy compared to other game designers that have to create MMO's, FPS, etc.. Because sports devs don't actually have to be creative, JUST CREATE EXACTLY WHAT WE SEE ON TV. We don't want gimmicks, we don't want cannons going off when a WR catches a deep ball, we don't want Madden rings, we don't want Heisman mode, etc.. Follow exactly what you see when you attend the games live and what we see on gameday, that's it.

As far as franchise goes, just follow exactly what happens during the season and off-season, I never understood why Madden makes up it's own rules such as having to have a set number of RB and FB, etc. This is a head scratcher.

This is exactly what I am talking about in regard to EA Tiburon overcomplicating how to make a solid football simulation video game. I would like every person in the Madden community that is able to go down to Tiburon to ask them about the bold. Why in the eff do they keep attempting to reinvent the wheel and "fun" up the NFL in Madden?

I was attempting to read some info on NCAA 14 and I just couldn't do it any longer because the way EA Tiburon's two football games replicate their respective sports is abysmal. Player movement, player differential and presentation are atrocious and don't lay any type of solid foundation for realistic immersive football games. I can watch videos of others playing games like The Show and NBA2k, which entice me to want to experience them for myself but not with EA football games. Aside from their carefully crafted hype trailers, the actual gameplay videos from EA football games don't make me want to play the game. Every year, I get caught up in hype trailers and early hands on impressions of EA football games, not immersive gameplay videos. The fact that they have to use everything other than the actual gameplay itself to promote these football games is telling of how poor the end product is.

Think about it, Madden should be the easiest game to promote/market in the US because it is supposed to be replicating the #1 American sport. However, the fact that sooo much money is spent by EA marketing Madden is a testament to how inept the game is at replicating the NFL and capitalizing on the NFL's rampant success. Companies pay the NFL top dollar for product placement to capitalize on the NFL's success, not the NFL changing it's brand to attract the following of popular products. So it makes no sense for EA to pay an obscene amount of money to acquire an exclusive NFL license and then spend even more money marketing Madden than replicating the NFL in it. The NFL exclusive alone should be enough to promote the game IF it did a solid job of replicating the NFL.

EA football games are doubly frustrating because not only are they poor representations of their sports but the underline business decisions seem nonsensical too.

[RyanMoody21]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

I would be shocked if we are provided any more "information", of that detail. Certinaly not for promotional reasons.

Despite the variety of opinions and assumptions in this thread, it's becoming obvious that the community has deciphered this game.

When provided a sliver of information (strength equates to hold time) it was used as a cog to deconstruct the line interactions across the board.

Years of a sub par product and lack of up front, honest information have lead to a consumer based reverse engineering of the game. Eventually will haunt every years release of Madden until its provided a complete overhaul.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

I would be shocked if we are provided any more "information", of that detail. Certinaly not for promotional reasons.

Despite the variety of opinions and assumptions in this thread, it's becoming obvious that the community has deciphered this game.

When provided a sliver of information (strength equates to hold time) it was used as a cog to deconstruct the line interactions across the board.

Years of a sub par product and lack of up front, honest information have lead to a consumer based reverse engineering of the game. Eventually will haunt every years release of Madden until its provided a complete overhaul.

I think many will miss how insightful Ryan's post is. If Madden was a good representation of NFL football, myself and the vast majority of others could not careless how the game works under the hood. However, by producing such a lackluster product, EA Tiburon has inadvertently caused numerous gamers to seek out answers and dig deep into the inner workings of the game.

I despise the fact that I spend more time and find more enjoyment in discussing NFL gaming than actually playing the only current NFL game allowed. Madden is far more of a pop culture icon and hot topic for discussion than it is a viable immersive NFL football simulation, which is just sad.

I will take some heat for what I am about to state but eff it. I don't see how the developers and other people that put their names on this game don't feel the need to produce a better product. I understand being thankful to have a job and pay the bills but what about deserved pride in your work? This question is even more highlighted considering AJ's comments and that's how I would expect someone to feel about something they actually care about being done so poorly. Again, I don't expect mass resignations but it would seem if the vast majority of the people working on Madden were actually passionate about NFL football like he is, Madden would be a better product.

The thing is as soon as another studio is allowed to make NFL games, if another studio ever is, it will be blatantly obvious how intentional and avoidable next-gen Madden was. All this talk of "suits", which I have done my share of, late console dev kits, dev time, bad code, etc, while likely having some merit, is dwarfed by a culture of a lack of passion and effort for replicating NFL football. Yes I said it because there is no way next-gen Madden demonstrates a commitment to replicating NFL football at any level. What it demonstrates is a commitment to creating some arcade-sim hybrid to please the masses which is a complete contradiction and a mess of a NFL football game.

P.S. I have been ripping into Madden lately partly because of the Redskins being knocked out of the playoffs and Madden 13 being so incomplete that I can't even remedy that on the virtual gridiron.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

The thing is as soon as another studio is allowed to make NFL games, if another studio ever is, it will be blatantly obvious how intentional and avoidable next-gen Madden was. All this talk of "suits", which I have done my share of, late console dev kits, dev time, bad code, etc, while likely having some merit, is dwarfed by a culture of a lack of passion and effort for replicating NFL football.

I'm not afraid to say it. The developers that work on this game are terrible. They've had years upon years to prove me wrong. Hasn't come close yet. I've said it before and I will say it again. Madden is an arcade game based on football. It's not designed to be realistic. It doesn't even play good ARCADE football, because the player movement is so horrendous. I'd be embarrassed if I worked on that game. Apparently, that's exactly how AJ felt.

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Clint Oldenburg Explains the Strength Rating For Linemen in Madden

I would be shocked if we are provided any more "information", of that detail. Certinaly not for promotional reasons.

Despite the variety of opinions and assumptions in this thread, it's becoming obvious that the community has deciphered this game.

When provided a sliver of information (strength equates to hold time) it was used as a cog to deconstruct the line interactions across the board.

Years of a sub par product and lack of up front, honest information have lead to a consumer based reverse engineering of the game. Eventually will haunt every years release of Madden until its provided a complete overhaul.

This and what Bfd said re the culture of ea football. Its coincidental i was thinking the same thing about how insightful this mans post is re the community deciphering and reverse engineering. We do this as outlaws and vigilantes because, well..

This product lacks character because the company lacks character. This product lacks passion because the producers lack passion. This product lacks integrity because the devs have lot their integrity. At the end of the day we are all bproducts of our leader - this game is a product of its leader and will forever remain lifeless and backwards for as long as its producers remain apathetic to their subjects.

At the end of the day, it's like it was already said, Can someone out there please take pride in their work? Where are the legs in this company? Where is the heart in this company? We see the head and how it operates but damn is it a scarecrow operation?

As bfd said, it is a cultural parody. What does ea and ea football stand for? I remember when it was "ea sports, its in the game!" I would hate to see this franchise become the next lba live fall from grace. I have no predictions but i already perceive the franchise as an eagle that has lost its wings and become reduced to a worm , formless w no capacity to soar again, reduced to crawl and left defenseless to be mocked and ridiculed. The gawking impudence of the product manufacturers is evident in all the deformities within this game.

How did this once soaring eagle become reduced to these lowly ways.. this community cannot be fooled by the indolent marketing schemes that clearly show no reverence for true simulated national football league, football. We have seen the blatant volatility within the slider system which is equally indicative of a game engine that is passed it's time and cannot handle the demands of today without getting all gassed-up and spazzed-out: producing the most herky-jerky, hokey-pokey, sputter,sputter, stop-and-go movements - the game lacks grace.

As representatives of this community, we have gone under the hood of this product and observed it for what it truly is. It aught to be our responsibility to educate the masses w any and all resources and forums available to us.

We cant keep paying full price for an incomplete game. We cant keep paying for nfl football and in return we get arcade physics with skating animations being a bonus of football on ice! whewhhoooo nah we pay for an online pass and they cant even have us use their own servers?! Nah that is unacceptable and we as consumers must take a unified stand because the company itself cannot and will no stand for anything worthwhile, being the worms they have become.