Thoughts on new XP system in madden?

[redlasers123]

What do you guys think about the xp system in madden 13?
I like the idea but i feel that some attributes are almost impossible to upgrade like speed and development. Although I think that it should be hard to upgrade these attributes, I shouldn't have to spend an entire season to bump up my speed by maybe 1 point. Also, I think xp gained should be based on what percentage of the weekly/yearly goal is achieved by that player because so many times im 5 yards away or 1 catch away from obtaining a goal yet I get no Xp for it

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Thoughts on new XP system in madden?

While I don't hate the XP system and can understand what Mr. Looman is trying to do, it's a good example of the problem with trying to cater to everyone at once. What I feel consistently gets lost concerning creating Madden at EA Tiburon is the fact that it's supposed to be recreating NFL football in a video game. That sounds like a simple enough principle to adhere to but not at EA Tiburon, for whatever reason. This XP system to me is clearly an attempt at immersing casuals, hardcore and others into a concept of player progression. However, like many ideas that come from this catering mindset, it comes across as unnecessarily reinventing the wheel.

In other sports games, Users normally have two choices for player progression, use the automated system in the game or use manual editing. Instead, Mr. Looman spent countless hours and resources on an elaborate XP system, that might can be turned into something special over time but seems like a poor design choice at the moment.

[N51_rob]

Re: Thoughts on new XP system in madden?

I like it for one reason. It's better than what we had. Its not perfect, and I hope that it will be tweaked in the future. I mean 125 tackles for a MLB in 8 minute quarter will NEVER happen. Sorry thats just stupid.

[bucky60]

Re: Thoughts on new XP system in madden?

Hate XP progression. Want something far more realistic.

[NDAlum]

I like the concept. I really think they can create an amazing system out of it. First year I am impressed. I like the ability to mold my players to fit my scheme.

[kmoore11]

Re: Thoughts on new XP system in madden?

I like it a lot. It's not perfect by any means, but it lets me control how to train my players, similar to how a coach can work on certain traits in practice to improve on those. I do agree that there should be 'partial credit' for some goals.

I would like to see a sort of 'anti-goals'. For example, my RB would lose XP if he fumbles twice or CB loses points for giving up a long TD pass. Possibly to a point where you could lose skill points for consistently bad performance. Similar to what I remember in previous Maddens, I would see a '(+2)' or '(-1)' next to somebody's ratings and I think that was related to their performance. Players in real life often digress in certain attributes (i.e. Matt Stafford's accuracy), so having negatives to balance the constant progress of players would be ideal.

[bucky60]

Re: Thoughts on new XP system in madden?

I like the concept. I really think they can create an amazing system out of it. First year I am impressed. I like the ability to mold my players to fit my scheme.

This is part of what seems too arcadey/gamey to me. For me, molding players would be hiring a certain type of coaching staff, setting up practice schedules (team and individual drills) with coaches emphasizing certain areas more than others, and have the CPU determine progression using the abilities of the coaching staff (to teach) and players (to learn). Like it really happens in the NFL.

Scouting, coaching staffs, player progression, expanded rosters (including practice squads) and team financials could be greatly expanded on to make a much more realistic representation of the NFL outside of what happens on the football field.

I don't want to have to force STATS (either in games or in practice) on players for them to progress.

To me, XP progression is just another gimmick. Now, I can understand why others really like it. Just saying that I personally hate it and would rather see something less gamey and much more like how progression happens in the real world.

I would like to see a sort of 'anti-goals'. For example, my RB would lose XP if he fumbles twice or CB loses points for giving up a long TD pass. Possibly to a point where you could lose skill points for consistently bad performance. Similar to what I remember in previous Maddens, I would see a '(+2)' or '(-1)' next to somebody's ratings and I think that was related to their performance. Players in real life often digress in certain attributes (i.e. Matt Stafford's accuracy), so having negatives to balance the constant progress of players would be ideal.

I would want to be able to hire a different RB coach or a different QB coach to help Stafford's accuracy. A players performance (fumbling) doesn't make them regress. Regression makes their performance worse. Not fumbling doesn't make a player progress better, the player progresses in ball security and then doesn't fumble as much. Same with Stafford's accuracy. The control I want, is to hire a different position coach, and/or change the scheduling of practice drills to emphasize ball handling and QB accuracy and let the CPU simulate the actual progression.

[NDAlum]

I want a mix of stats and coaching. On field performance should matter. However in its current state it leads to XP chasing. I like the concept and think it can be improved greatly.

[N51_rob]

Re: Thoughts on new XP system in madden?

This is part of what seems too arcadey/gamey to me. For me, molding players would be hiring a certain type of coaching staff, setting up practice schedules (team and individual drills) with coaches emphasizing certain areas more than others, and have the CPU determine progression using the abilities of the coaching staff (to teach) and players (to learn). Like it really happens in the NFL.

Scouting, coaching staffs, player progression, expanded rosters (including practice squads) and team financials could be greatly expanded on to make a much more realistic representation of the NFL outside of what happens on the football field.

I don't want to have to force STATS (either in games or in practice) on players for them to progress.

To me, XP progression is just another gimmick. Now, I can understand why others really like it. Just saying that I personally hate it and would rather see something less gamey and much more like how progression happens in the real world.



I would want to be able to hire a different RB coach or a different QB coach to help Stafford's accuracy. A players performance (fumbling) doesn't make them regress. Regression makes their performance worse. Not fumbling doesn't make a player progress better, the player progresses in ball security and then doesn't fumble as much. Same with Stafford's accuracy. The control I want, is to hire a different position coach, and/or change the scheduling of practice drills to emphasize ball handling and QB accuracy and let the CPU simulate the actual progression.

Does anyone ever think Madden will have that kind of depth? I do not sadly.

[bucky60]

Re: Thoughts on new XP system in madden?

I want a mix of stats and coaching. On field performance should matter. However in its current state it leads to XP chasing. I like the concept and think it can be improved greatly.

Performance doesn't matter in progression, progression matters in performance increase or decrease. XP has the wrong thing (stats) driving the progression bus. Progression should be driving the increase or decrease in ability/ratings and ability/ratings should be driving performance. That's how things work in the real world.

[bucky60]

Re: Thoughts on new XP system in madden?

Does anyone ever think Madden will have that kind of depth? I do not sadly.

I'm with you, but why can't it? And why can't I want it? I know, rhetorical questions. Nobody here is saying I can't want it. I'm just answering the OP's question and stating my opinion like everyone else. That's all. Well, that and dreaming of what could be. And what I think what should have been by now. We are on 8 years of this gen console.

I'm not trying to tell anyone they shouldn't like XP progression. Just saying I hate it.

[sbuxer]

Re: Thoughts on new XP system in madden?

I like it, but it's far from perfect.

Part of it is the menus -- it's tedious and time-consuming. It's fun to increase my QB's deep throw accuracy, but by the time I get down to my 3rd string OLB, I don't care anymore. I know I can "delegate" it, but that's no fun. There's several ways to streamline it. I hope they pick one.

Other dislikes:

1 - EA needs to clarify what each "tendency" does. I made the mistake of "upgrading" my safety, Jairus Byrd from Plays the ball in the air - Aggressive to Conservative, and now he doesn't go for interceptions. I figured if I was "upgrading" him, he'd be better. Instead, I essentially broke him as a player. Stupid.

2 - I don't particularly like the "Goals" aspect of earning XP. I play all of my games, and if my MLB gets 100 tackles in a season, that's huge. He's been a monster for me. But he'll never achieve the goals set forth by Madden. Some are solid, others wildly unrealistic.

3 - And let's not even talk about the goals for my bench players. Good luck on those. I think a way to address this would be to let you use your coach XP points on your players. This would be like me "spending extra time in the film room" with my 7th round QB.

[Drtro]

Re: Thoughts on new XP system in madden?

I'm not a HUGE fan of it.

I wish it were like Madden 12 but with the new schemes. A Run Stopper MLB would progress more in Run Stopping attributes than other. I'm too lazy to do practice each week and XP packages are expensive. Especially with rookies playing backup letting their Quick Development go to waste until my aging star retires.

[atc43]

Re: Thoughts on new XP system in madden?

This is part of what seems too arcadey/gamey to me. For me, molding players would be hiring a certain type of coaching staff, setting up practice schedules (team and individual drills) with coaches emphasizing certain areas more than others, and have the CPU determine progression using the abilities of the coaching staff (to teach) and players (to learn). Like it really happens in the NFL.

Scouting, coaching staffs, player progression, expanded rosters (including practice squads) and team financials could be greatly expanded on to make a much more realistic representation of the NFL outside of what happens on the football field.

I don't want to have to force STATS (either in games or in practice) on players for them to progress.

To me, XP progression is just another gimmick. Now, I can understand why others really like it. Just saying that I personally hate it and would rather see something less gamey and much more like how progression happens in the real world.

THIS is exactly, without a doubt, how it should be!

[KBLover]

Re: Thoughts on new XP system in madden?

I can't stand it.

Before, if a player had weaknesses, I had to deal with it even as he progressed. Now, I can just buy it away. He's injury prone? No biggie, I'll just save up points from catching 3 TDs to make him a man of steel instead of the glass cannon he probably should be (if being good made players durable Darren McFadden wouldn't have injuries derail whatever production or development he could have). He wears down over the course of a game too much? I'll just pump STA and in a season, he can go all day.

It's like now I need 'house rules' to keep from developing away weaknesses.

I need a clutch QB? Why scout for the ability (i.e. look for guys who have a reputation for winning the big game in college or find guys in the pros with the ability)? I can just save up from practices and make him be Clutch. From...what? Doing well in practice?

Tons of players are "Big Hitters" in my CCM's - no matter if they have 50 POW or not. If he wanted to be a "Big Hitter" shouldn't he have to increase POW? Instead, my lightweight can hit stick and turn into Willis for a moment. Just for 10 K XP? I have two corners that will get that as soon as the season ends. McClain could have bought that 4 times over with how my scheme is oriented around the MLB. In fact, he's got 4 consistency now. During the season.

No, I don't think this is better. There's no sense of individual abilities when you can just buy whatever without any kind of ratings requirement. My player isn't hitting the weight room over time or filling out his body with age (raising STR and POW). He's just get the ability to super charge his tackles for an instant.

Aging is another area. Ray Lewis can develop just as fast as any other "Normal" development player. Somehow, I think Ray would have a harder timing maintaining (let alone increasing) his physical abilities, and if it wouldn't/doesn't, that ain't "Normal". Before, older players wore down, they lost some steps, they couldn't make that ankle-breaker cut as often, etc.

The old system had issues, no doubt, but instead of fixing them, as usual, it's throw it out and come up with something else. At least with the old system, I wasn't guaranteed getting whatever player I want/need. I have a CB that had trash AWR but could catch like a WR. Instead of maybe having to use him as a WR (oh, wait, we can't do that...I can't 'buy' a "position change"?) - I can just pump his AWR to my leisure. If only real players could do so - no one would have significant weaknesses, especially in technique and decision making.

Even if you want to say XP represents time spent training, etc...if that's the case, why does he need to "Get 9 tackles" (as if 8 tackles and an INT aren't better), or a below average QB need 4,800 yards (or even 3 TDs in a game).

The idea of making 9 tackles helping with zone coverage...what? Or catching 3 TDs helping with pass blocking? It doesn't make sense to me.

Someone mentioned tailoring a player to your scheme. Sure, that happens - to a degree. But players far out of your scheme shouldn't just mold. Sometimes, guys just get cut/dealt/struggle if the system doesn't match. In this system, I can take Terrelle Pryor, go Vertical, get 3 TDs and 4 INTs, and rack up XP to make him better. Bleh. I should have had to do what I did - get a 99 THP gunslinger and make the most of him - kinda like how Favre progressed from a wild thrower to a semi-wild thrower with great instincts. He never became a precision passer with an arm. Yet - you could make him that with XP. You can take the "wildness" out (Force Passes) at will. Just save up the XP.

I just don't like things like that. I think coaches deal with weakness in their players as much as they do try to coach them up. I think we virtual coaches should have to do the same thing. You got a lightweight D - finesse your opponent, not "buy Big Hitter" and become a power defense.

And Coach goals...I just...I don't know. Maybe I'm too much from the Herman Edwards philosophy:

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/IMk5sMHj58I?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Maybe I don't get it.