2K11...Refreshing

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: 2K11...Refreshing

I'm using the last roster update from the servers for 2K11, so think more like the three guys mentioned minus 2 years of wear on the tires. At any rate, the more I try to defend myself, the more you will call me a cheeser and dress me down. I'm not sure how attacking my personal game makes your point more valid. Every game unfolds differently, and some times things just simply work or do not work. What I was trying to do was not working, so I switched it up. 1-3-1, as you know is generally a recipe for disaster, but this time it worked. Bad on me I guess.

By defending the paint, I meant the ability to actually slow down, stop or divert the cpu momentum. You know, actually being able to make contact with the offensive player, or blocking a shot/layup/dunk when they ram their way into the lane...like the NBA. You cannot do that in 2K13. You can in 2K11 and that is nice to be able to have some control over the situation. I didn't mean locking down the perimeter so the ball can't even get to the paint.

I still don't see the logic in calling a short term switch to a different D (1-3-1) cheese. It changed the momentum, and they didn't adjust fast enough to save the game. Normally I stay far away from 1-3-1 becuase it gets toasted by the three, but I was desperate to try to get back in the game and it happened to work.

I would definitely call it "cheese" if I started using it quarter 1, noticed they kept turning it over and won the game by 30, but that is not the case. I used it for the last 7-8 minutes of the 4th quarter. Cheese to me is finding a flaw in the game logic, and using it non stop to dominate the cpu whenever you get in a crunch (spamming the point guard for steals, spin dunk, etc). That is not what I did in this situation. Switching D for a short time is not cheese in my opinion. How would you define cheese just so I know where you are coming from?

Okay I was seriously trying to stay out of this thread as I believe its redundant and ridiculous to many degrees.


"Cheese to me is finding a flaw in the game logic, and using it non stop to dominate the cpu whenever you get in a crunch."

"but I was desperate to try to get back in the game"

"I used it for the last 7-8 minutes of the 4th quarter."


So its "cheese" if you do X for 48 minutes to win a game, but not cheese if you do X for the last 8 minutes to win a game? Cause that is what you are saying there.

Cheese is cheese whether its 48 minutes, 8 minutes or 1 time.

If you take advantage of programming logic/error in any way shape or form you are cheating/using exploits/cheesing, etc.

Lets change some things around and lets see if this is cheese or not.

Player A uses the spin dunk move everytime down court to get 2 points off a dunk, Player A gets the W easily. Obviously this is cheesy and abusing programming logic/error, I don't think anyone here would argue against this.

Player B uses the spin dunk move everytime down court in the last 2 minutes of a match to get the W even though he was legit sim the whole game. This is still cheesy and still taking advantage of programming logic/error.

[Optik]

Re: 2K11...Refreshing

^^Exactly JWill. So many people who claim to be 'sim' are all to willing condemn 'cheese' unless it's for a certain period of time. That is confused thinking. I have more respect for Player A, because he is honest about just trying to win. He doesn't care about any artificial code of conduct. Player B however wants to claim he follows an artificial code of conduct until he breaks it when he gets desperate.

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: 2K11...Refreshing

^ agreed, player a is at minimum honest about his intentions, player b is trying to mask his intentions, player b must be a politician of some sorts ...

[MNHuskerman]

Re: 2K11...Refreshing

Okay. Can anyone other than Optik or JasonWilliams55 explain to me why you think using a different defense for a few minutes is cheese? If I switch to a defense that is universally considered to be detrimental to your chances to win, but it confuses the offense and they don't change up their attack, how is that cheese? Is it cheese becuase no NBA team would ever play zone? Sorry, NBA teams play zone sometimes. Is it cheese just becuase the Nets failed to adjust, and since they didn't adjust I should switch back to man and take my knuckle bumps? I didn't know there was a rule in the NBA where you can only play man defense, and if you switch to a zone that is illegal?

I fail to see the difference between what you call cheese, and what I see as a momentary change in strategy to mix it up. If 1-3-1 is cheesier than cheese wiz, and cause for one's 2K card to be revoked, then I apologize, but 2K should then consider taking it out of the game to ensure that everyone plays by the rules. Just so everyone is clear, I played 1-3-1 zone for 8 minutes of the game, so I MUST be a cheeser. Didn't want anyone to be confused. Can I have some onions with my double cheeseburger please?

[MNHuskerman]

Re: 2K11...Refreshing

Now I'm a politician! You guys must be the President and Vice President of the 2K Anti-Cheese Wiz Society. So let me get this straight. Let's say you're losing the entire game, and your man to man defense is getting straight torched. You consider it wrong, in a video game mind you, to switch strategy and try something else? You'd rather get beat like a drum, and play man defense the whole game and never try anything else to see if it would work better? In some corners of the globe, that would be called insanity. I'm all about trying different ways of doing things if what I'm doing doesn't work.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: 2K11...Refreshing

I really haven't enjoyed 2k13 much outside of teamup.

2k11 was all around fun for me. But now it's tuff to play 2k11.

[Optik]

Re: 2K11...Refreshing

^^But but, I thought you could defend the paint in 2K11?

BTW, the only person who has mentioned the term 'cheeser' is YOU. You're the one who was complaining about cheese, but when it was pointed out to you that what you did to get back in the game is widely regarded as cheese in these parts, you played the victim. You would have been better off if you didn't even complain about cheese, because there really isn't anything different between you using a 1-3-1 and someone using LeBron to play out his extremely powerful dunk animation. Also, remember, you were playing the CPU, a CPU who has gotten smarter offensively in 2K13 and would have probably ripped your 1-3-1 apart, but nonetheless a CPU which has limited intelligence when compared to a human.

[slowdifference]

Re: 2K11...Refreshing

2k11 was a very good game but revisionist hirstory overrates the game. I may be in the minority but 2k8 was always the best overall experience for me.

[MNHuskerman]

Re: 2K11...Refreshing

Optik,

I agree that the cpu would have adjusted quicker in 2K13 to punch holes in the 1-3-1, but I honestly wasn't aware that the limited use of the zone was considered dishonest or cheesy. Is it viewed that way by the forum becuase it is not used much in the league? If so, I can understand your point of view and respect that. Or is the 1-3-1 a glitchy defense that is flawed logic with the game that should be fixed, removed or not used? I'm still confused on the why?

[PJBrownHeat]

Re: 2K11...Refreshing

For my part it's the same, i played this week end to 2k11 to watch again Bulls triangle strategy.

It was more easy in the menu to find roster, first thing!
why in nba 2k13 manager roster is in option!
Music is good, i was happy to listen it again, but for my part i love 2k12 and 2k13 too no problem, on this, In 2k13 Nas the world is your, perfect music, Jay Z i love the music with Rihanna etc

second good thing, triangle offense are more interesting i think. not all the real triangle strategy unfortunately of course, but more than 2k12 and 2k13!

I played a game with the 91 Bulls, Phil Jackson is on the floor, it warmed my heart to see him!
I played with a classic paint, not with an area restriction, what a joy!
I played against the Celtics of Larry Bird, he was so beautiful in the game, authentics! I found in 2011 that the celtics floor was not real good but in fact it was a real beautiful floor!
I noticed that maybe it was more easy to beat the cpu. I tried a first half in HOF against the 96 Sonics, Hawkins was totally low-key, Shawn Kemp was not in an NBA JAM Mode like in 2k13, maybe my ps3 was resting because i didn't play with it for 4 weeks!!

Not long ago we talked about if court should be bigger, and something striked me when i saw Pippen i found him more smaller on the floor it was glaring and so, all the plaers were smaller. I think in 2k11 player were smaller so it was maybe a better proportion between court and players.

It was good to play with Jordan, finally he was well represented! good jumpshot, good one hand dunk!

I played today to 2k13, apart from the difficulties to stop Orlando Magic 95 with the Bulls 96, it was good to come back on 2k13! Graphics are good, nice to look!!

But i hope that 2k11 was not the best game never made, isn't it Snoop?

[slowdifference]

Re: 2K11...Refreshing

Optik,

I agree that the cpu would have adjusted quicker in 2K13 to punch holes in the 1-3-1, but I honestly wasn't aware that the limited use of the zone was considered dishonest or cheesy. Is it viewed that way by the forum becuase it is not used much in the league? If so, I can understand your point of view and respect that. Or is the 1-3-1 a glitchy defense that is flawed logic with the game that should be fixed, removed or not used? I'm still confused on the why?

The 1-3-1 is seen as cheap because of it's flawed logic and the games unrealistic recovery. When done correctly the 1-3-1 is as cheesy as it gets on D, that's why it's frowned upon around these parts. Truth be told I will use it if my opponet is detroying me in the paint.

[MNHuskerman]

Re: 2K11...Refreshing

Thanks for the answer. Truth be told on my part, I didn't know the logic was flawed, but usually avoided it because NBA defenses can torch it. Was surprised it worked so well when I used it! Will probably try not to use it at all now that I know. Guess I got to go back to work and improve my defense.

[Optik]

Re: 2K11...Refreshing

Optik,

I agree that the cpu would have adjusted quicker in 2K13 to punch holes in the 1-3-1, but I honestly wasn't aware that the limited use of the zone was considered dishonest or cheesy. Is it viewed that way by the forum becuase it is not used much in the league? If so, I can understand your point of view and respect that. Or is the 1-3-1 a glitchy defense that is flawed logic with the game that should be fixed, removed or not used? I'm still confused on the why?

Just to be clear, I don't care if someone uses the 1-3-1. Personally, I would prefer if 2K just allowed us to play any kind of defense we wanted (I don't even think CH2K8 has this, because it just has so many more defensive sets you can play than in NBA2K), but I understand that this may be hard to implement as it would be similar to implementing a play creator. What I do care about is consistency in arguments and in particular, the argument that something adheres to some kind of artificial code of conduct if done in a limited manner whereas if it was done the whole game, then it should be considered cheese. This is a bad argument because it justifies creating an artificial set of rules that the game knows nothing about. It's like setting a limit on points in the paint. WHY?

On the 1-3-1, the defensive recovery speed is so unrealistically great (on quick ranked) and the passing so slow that it makes the 1-3-1 a more difficult zone to beat that it should be. People can also adjust and fine tune defensive settings in such a way that its weakness (vulnerability to offensive rebounding) is negated. When you add the fact that people are able to switch in any given possession between 1-3-1 and man almost instantaneously and with no defensive communication, it becomes harder to beat. Add in the fact that you can afford to hide average or poor defensive players at the four and use their shooting ability on offense and that most people don't have the patience to use an offensive plays at all, and it makes the 1-3-1 the most used defense in the game (online).

Playing on sim settings can help nerf this.

[JasonMartin]

Re: 2K11...Refreshing

The 1-3-1 is seen as cheap because of it's flawed logic and the games unrealistic recovery. When done correctly the 1-3-1 is as cheesy as it gets on D, that's why it's frowned upon around these parts. Truth be told I will use it if my opponet is detroying me in the paint.

I would say that's lame but I won't.


The defense online compared to offline is plain horrible. I have people walking inside the paint like it's nothing and they get an easy lay up. It's ridiculous at times.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: 2K11...Refreshing

I'm going to jump in for a second, because Optik and JasonWilliams55 are trying to roast MNHuskerman for no reason.

Personally, it's stupid to call a particular defense "cheese". In my personal experience, the 1-3-1 zone defense has never caused me any real problem, and I normally see it as suicidal defense (in NBA 2K11) due to my ability to knockdown jumpers consistently. In most cases, my opponents didn't stay with the 1-3-1 zone for too long. From what I've observed, bums normally use the 1-3-1 zone to stop paint abusers like themselves, but they don't know how to adjust when they play against a REAL player doesn't have to rely on abusing the paint to score.

Cheese to me is when you exploit or attempt to exploit a flaw in the game logic from the beginning to the end REGARDLESS of the success rate. IMHO, MNHuskerman just merely changed his strategy, because his current defense wasn't working. Nothing more, nothing less. He adjusted his defense accordingly to combat what was successful for the offense in the natural flow of the game.

Honestly, I don't care when people make on-the-fly defensive adjustments, because that's what I EXPECT you to do. The people who irk me the most are the ones who IMMEDIATELY go to a zone defense or jack up all their sliders before the game even starts.