Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

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  • Love13
    Rookie
    • Oct 2012
    • 216

    #181
    Originally posted by kerosene31
    As soon as I saw that, I instantly gave up on "sim" difficulty. After shanking my first drive into the trees, I wanted to hit a 5 iron punch out. It forced me to draw or fade the shot no matter what.

    I'm not a scratch golfer, far from it, but I didn't even think you could put a lot of spin on a ball coming out of the rough.

    I'm just trying to understand why things work a certain way. Are we going for realism or just trying to make it harder and harder on the freaks online who shoot -30 every tournament? Seems like the latter to me. I just want to find a balanced difficulty for an online country club. Hopefully with practice, tournament might work.
    To answer a couple of your questions. First off you are partially right on spin out of the rough. But there are a lot of different spins to put on a ball. It is very hard to put back spin out of the rough. It is also hard to shape a shot out of the rough, especially a specialty shot like a punch shot with a fade or draw to get around a tree and under the branches and run up the fairway, but it is possible. That is actually one of my favorite shots in real life. Don't get me wrong I don't like being put in that position, but I tell you when your out with some friends playing golf and you end up in the trees and you've got a tree in front of you, no way to hit the green and you club up, then hit a nice fading punch that curves around the tree and runs up the fairway right next to the green, there is almost nothing more rewarding or anything more that will impress your group then making a Brodie or saving par from that tee shot.

    As for is it realism or hard for sake of hard. It's definitely a step towards realism. The fact is, when a skilled pro or even top competitive amateurs have spent so much time refining their swing to where they can shape shots on command to get advantages like extra roll, better control and simple course management, it is actually harder for them to hit a ball dead straight than to hit their "go to" shot of fade or draw off the tee. That's why even on a perfectly straight par 4 with the flag in the middle of the green you will still see every one of them hit a fade or draw off the tee.

    As stated by jet earlier though, they still have a ways to go. They are missing key elements that need some work over the next couple editions. First and foremost, when in scoring range (essentially 150 yds and in) there should be an option for a straight shot. Because no pro, if they have a straight approach option at the flag, is going to try and shape a wedge into the green. Right now the only club you don't have to shape is your lob wedge I believe from what I've noticed. This should be an option for pretty much 8 or even 7 iron down. What's unknown by many is that one of the biggest advantages to shaping a shot is the fact that you increase distance over a straight shot. This also goes back to why a pro will shape a shot off the tee on a straight hole, to increase their roll after the ball lands, giving them an extra 10-20 yds off the tee. But short irons and wedges the pros are not concerned about power (this is one major difference between the average golfer and a pro) a pro does not care how far they can hit a short iron or wedge, they use those clubs simply for their accuracy. They will take the easiest approach possible to the green with a short iron or wedge. So this is something that I'm sure will be addressed in the future.

    Another key element that is missing is a yardage book. I love that they took away the aim feature because you don't get binoculars on the PGA tour, but you do have a yardage book that tells you distances from the tee to every hazard on the course, as well as front of green, back of green, how far to carry both fairway and green side bunkers, as well as pin positions. Pin positions are given in feet. It will tell you the pin for Sunday is 15 ft deep (meaning 15 ft from the front edge) and 13 ft from the right or left side of the green. This allows for pros to have a good understand of how to play their shot. Not only on their approach but also from the tee. If they know the flag is back left tucked behind a green side bunker on a hole, they will ideally play their shot to the right side of the fairway so they can hit a high draw to the left side of the green to put it close and keep the green side bunker out of play.

    Sorry about my long winded info over load, I just figured some explanation of things like yardage books and advantages to shot shaping might helps those that aren't knowledgable about these things that might be be reading since these areas have been brought up a lot in conversation.

    For those that have read this whole thing, thanks for listening lol. I hope this was informative to at least one person, that way it was all worth it haha.

    Comment

    • kerosene31
      Some say he...
      • Dec 2004
      • 1898

      #182
      Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

      The yardage book is huge too. I don't know if you ever played TW11, but I thought it nailed it. You could go to a top down view of the hole with relevant yardages listed, but you had no aiming arrow until you went back to "true aim" which was basically the view you get from the tee only. Even though a golfer can't fly up in the air and see the hole, that seemed like a reasonable compromise, considering that's the kind of think a real caddie is going to have.

      If only TW11 had online country clubs...
      Go Sabres!

      Comment

      • Jet Sufferer
        MVP
        • Jul 2008
        • 1347

        #183
        Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

        Agree that some of the things for simulation aren't really simulation.

        Wind, I should have full access to wind information just like I do on the golf course, can it change when I swing? yes, happens all the time.

        Yardage, that should not be hidden in any manner, any good player knows how far they hit their clubs and any player of any skill level has access to yardage to hazards, carry distances, etc.

        Also Love13 mentioned flag positions, always need to know this, you'll always know this in a tournament and many courses even give you quadrants on the card. Even a static view of the pin is good, although I do miss the fly-bys (think they were on Sega Genesis too!) and you can access the fly-by's in the pause menu, but who has an extra 1.3 seconds to access that!

        Greens, give me the info grids until next gen, I don't want to spend forever reading putts in a game. If I can get the same read with the grids in a much quicker manner than without than I'll go gridless next gen. (To be fair I haven't spent time trying to putt gridless in 14, in 13 there was too much randomness, not enough graphical quality and I can't imagine that has changed)

        I think you should have access to all information and just make the results more severe in the execution of the swing on higher difficulties.

        The information and equipment is not the challenge in golf, executing what you want to do with that equipment and information is. So give us all the info we need to speed up the game and make the execution more difficult on the higher skill levels, and not by making a short shot an extreme swing path. Perhaps they're trying to compensate for the video game savants, but they're the extreme minority and they'll master whatever quirk you give them in a week anyway. Make it more logical for us video game mortals.

        Comment

        • DivotMaker
          MVP
          • Jul 2002
          • 2703

          #184
          Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

          Originally posted by kerosene31
          I'm just trying to understand why things work a certain way. Are we going for realism or just trying to make it harder and harder on the freaks online who shoot -30 every tournament? Seems like the latter to me. I just want to find a balanced difficulty for an online country club. Hopefully with practice, tournament might work.
          There is not a single PGA TOUR Pro who hits straight shots with any regularity. They play to their strengths which is either a Power Fade/Draw or a Control Fade/Draw. Another reason that the Simulation mode has Adv Shot Shaping is because it is easy to hit 6 to 12 o'clock on most 360 and PS3 controllers (more so the 360 is what I am hearing) taking away mis-hit potential on all shots. Sean Wilson (Tiger Executive Producer) posted the full reasons for this in the EA Tiger forums. When it was explained to those of us who attended TW Community Day, it made perfect sense and it IS intended to make scoring more realistic because the swing is not "on rails" by swinging 6 to 12 o'clock.....
          PC / Xbox One X

          Xbox One Elite Controller

          The Golf Club 2

          Comment

          • DivotMaker
            MVP
            • Jul 2002
            • 2703

            #185
            Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

            Originally posted by Jet Sufferer
            The information and equipment is not the challenge in golf, executing what you want to do with that equipment and information is. So give us all the info we need to speed up the game and make the execution more difficult on the higher skill levels, and not by making a short shot an extreme swing path. Perhaps they're trying to compensate for the video game savants, but they're the extreme minority and they'll master whatever quirk you give them in a week anyway. Make it more logical for us video game mortals.
            I disagree. Information is a HUGE issue with videogame golf. You had loads of information in '13 (and still do in TW14 on lower or Custom difficulties) and once users figured out the consistent execution of their shots, you had crazy scoring results at -15, -20, and lower. It took me 4 days at TW Community Day to break PAR in the builds we were playing and the one round I did had something on the line. It was the TW CD Final Tournament to see who would win an autographed (by Tiger) copy of TW13 and a dozen EA Sports Nike Golf balls. I was probably on the lower half of skill among the attendees, but I managed to shoot a 67 at Augusta in Masters-like conditions because I was using a Control/Draw/High Trajectory golfer and I was able to hit fairways and greens and made a few putts along the way. I was lucky enough to win the tournament and beat players that routinely score in the teens under par in TW13 Tournament mode.

            So, I believe once the game ships, you are going to have to put in some practice time to get competitive at TW14 in Simulation mode. Heck, the best 3 hole round I have scored so far in the demo is -2 and that is because I hit fairways and greens and did not bomb my drives leaving me with longer than normal approaches, but not approaches from the rough. And putting is not a crapshoot completely if you spend a bit of time reading the lie of your ball and the horizon behind the cup once you zoom. I do agree that I wish we could zoom to get a view behind the cup like we can in '13, but even then I was making 30 footers pretty routinely in '13, where I am not making them nearly as often in the '14 demo.....I think you guys will see better results when you can create your own golfer and set him up to play the way you prefer instead of using baked in attributed Pro's....
            PC / Xbox One X

            Xbox One Elite Controller

            The Golf Club 2

            Comment

            • i3man
              Rookie
              • Jul 2002
              • 251

              #186
              Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

              What exactly does the live tournament in the demo do? I played live tournament on simualtion mode and posted -3. I've never owned a TW series game ever. I played the demo for about 30 minutes and was horrible in simulation mode scoring mostly doubles and triples then I messed around with the settings and found I could change the swing stick to the right stick and walla...I turned from hacker into a pretty decent golfer.

              I've played golf in real life for over 30 years and used to be a huge fan of the PGA series on PCs but never could get into console golf. The only console games I've played over the past 12 years has been Madden and NCAA football. So the right stick is the kicking stick in football games so it felt much more comfortable using it to swing.

              Like others have said if you stay out of the rough it's not that difficult to score in simulation mode. I think this is going to be my first ever purchase of a TW game on console.

              Comment

              • Love13
                Rookie
                • Oct 2012
                • 216

                #187
                Originally posted by i3man
                What exactly does the live tournament in the demo do? I played live tournament on simualtion mode and posted -3. I've never owned a TW series game ever. I played the demo for about 30 minutes and was horrible in simulation mode scoring mostly doubles and triples then I messed around with the settings and found I could change the swing stick to the right stick and walla...I turned from hacker into a pretty decent golfer.

                I've played golf in real life for over 30 years and used to be a huge fan of the PGA series on PCs but never could get into console golf. The only console games I've played over the past 12 years has been Madden and NCAA football. So the right stick is the kicking stick in football games so it felt much more comfortable using it to swing.

                Like others have said if you stay out of the rough it's not that difficult to score in simulation mode. I think this is going to be my first ever purchase of a TW game on console.
                Simulation mode takes away all the assistance of the lower difficulties. Such being to zoom in down the fairway while aiming your shot, green grids that show the breaks in the greens with beads that show how fast the greens break. Also a putt preview that shows the line your ball will roll. There's a caddie feature that essentially aims your shots for you. You can also control the spin of the ball in the air, how fast and what direction your ball will spin. You also don't have to use advance shot shaping. This allows you yo just aim and hit a straight shot instead of always hitting a draw or fade. Plus when you do choose to shape a shot the penalties are less severe than if you are playing on simulation.

                I would recommend you play a round on pro or amatuer difficulty just to see the difference in using simulation. This will help you understand the physics of the game a little better, as well as understand why the community has asked for a simulation style difficulty. All in all, -3 on simulation is something to be proud of. Honestly since you have never played one of these games it may have given you an advantage because you never got used to playing with all the assistants that have been taken away. So for us it's extreme at times, for you it's just playing golf lol.

                Comment

                • i3man
                  Rookie
                  • Jul 2002
                  • 251

                  #188
                  Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

                  I played for another 30 minutes or so after and made a bunch of doubles or higher. Everything was dependent on the tee shot. The rough seems overly penal almost like US Open rough. I wasn't watching Tiger when I swing I was watching the stick instead.

                  Comment

                  • chi_hawks
                    Beat the Heat!
                    • Sep 2007
                    • 301

                    #189
                    Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

                    Gonna give my thoughts on the "simulation mode" in the TW14 demo. I've played competitive golf my entire life, played D1 college golf and was lucky enough to play in a few pro tournaments (small time stuff, mind you).

                    1) Not being able to see pin location - this is riduculous. You have this available to you with any tournament you play in.

                    2) Not knowing wind strength - this is ridiculous. You may not know exact strength but you will have a good idea (light, strong, very strong, gusting, etc...)

                    3) Not being able to zoom forward nor see yardage book - this is ridiculous. Much like knowing pin locations, you map this stuff out ahead of time. Especially if your Tiger freaking Woods.

                    4) Pitch/chip mechanics - not a fan at all.

                    5) Fade or Draw choice - I'm ok with this. Typically you play for one shot as you rarely (if ever) aim right at the target and hit your ball dead straight.

                    6) No idea on green break - ridiculous. You should be challenged to learn how to read the greens.


                    IMO, if the TW series could take the mechanics, physics and gameplay from Hot Shots Golf OOB and let you use it with real players, real courses, real tournaments, you'd have yourself an amazing game. HSG is the closest to representing real golf IMO. Yes, cartoonish players, goofy courses, blah blah blah. But in terms of being a game that you slowly master without it being cheap (see the 6 issues above), while relying upon understanding ball physics and terrain mastery, its as good as it gets.
                    "Break the Rock"

                    http://www.operationsports.com/chi_hawks/blog/

                    Comment

                    • i3man
                      Rookie
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 251

                      #190
                      Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

                      Green reading isn't bad at all. The game gives you two slope degree readings which tells you to what degree you're putting up or downhill and to what degree the ball is above or below your feet. I wish I had this info on fairway lies.

                      Comment

                      • CallCenterZombie
                        Rookie
                        • Feb 2006
                        • 152

                        #191
                        Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

                        Originally posted by chi_hawks
                        Gonna give my thoughts on the "simulation mode" in the TW14 demo. I've played competitive golf my entire life, played D1 college golf and was lucky enough to play in a few pro tournaments (small time stuff, mind you).

                        1) Not being able to see pin location - this is riduculous. You have this available to you with any tournament you play in.

                        2) Not knowing wind strength - this is ridiculous. You may not know exact strength but you will have a good idea (light, strong, very strong, gusting, etc...)

                        3) Not being able to zoom forward nor see yardage book - this is ridiculous. Much like knowing pin locations, you map this stuff out ahead of time. Especially if your Tiger freaking Woods.

                        4) Pitch/chip mechanics - not a fan at all.

                        5) Fade or Draw choice - I'm ok with this. Typically you play for one shot as you rarely (if ever) aim right at the target and hit your ball dead straight.

                        6) No idea on green break - ridiculous. You should be challenged to learn how to read the greens.


                        IMO, if the TW series could take the mechanics, physics and gameplay from Hot Shots Golf OOB and let you use it with real players, real courses, real tournaments, you'd have yourself an amazing game. HSG is the closest to representing real golf IMO. Yes, cartoonish players, goofy courses, blah blah blah. But in terms of being a game that you slowly master without it being cheap (see the 6 issues above), while relying upon understanding ball physics and terrain mastery, its as good as it gets.
                        Sim Mode is the best addition in years. It's your opinion but I would go spend some more time playing. A lot of those points can be executed perfectly with practice.
                        Now Playing:

                        1. NHL 14
                        2. Tiger Woods PGA Tour 14 Sim Mode
                        3. ESPN NFL 2K5 w/ Gills 2013 roster update
                        3. NBA 2K11 w/ mkharsh's 2012-13 rosters
                        5. Winning Eleven 6 FE patched **2012 transfer window*** update....kick @SS

                        Comment

                        • Love13
                          Rookie
                          • Oct 2012
                          • 216

                          #192
                          Originally posted by i3man
                          Green reading isn't bad at all. The game gives you two slope degree readings which tells you to what degree you're putting up or downhill and to what degree the ball is above or below your feet. I wish I had this info on fairway lies.
                          You do have this information on fairway lies. Pull the left stick down and it shows you your lie.

                          Comment

                          • Hurricain
                            MVP
                            • Dec 2002
                            • 1034

                            #193
                            Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

                            Originally posted by CallCenterZombie
                            Sim Mode is the best addition in years. It's your opinion but I would go spend some more time playing. A lot of those points can be executed perfectly with practice.

                            LOL you obviously didn't read his post.
                            XBOX Live: Victimization

                            Comment

                            • DivotMaker
                              MVP
                              • Jul 2002
                              • 2703

                              #194
                              Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

                              Originally posted by chi_hawks
                              Gonna give my thoughts on the "simulation mode" in the TW14 demo. I've played competitive golf my entire life, played D1 college golf and was lucky enough to play in a few pro tournaments (small time stuff, mind you).

                              1) Not being able to see pin location - this is riduculous. You have this available to you with any tournament you play in.

                              2) Not knowing wind strength - this is ridiculous. You may not know exact strength but you will have a good idea (light, strong, very strong, gusting, etc...)

                              3) Not being able to zoom forward nor see yardage book - this is ridiculous. Much like knowing pin locations, you map this stuff out ahead of time. Especially if your Tiger freaking Woods.

                              4) Pitch/chip mechanics - not a fan at all.

                              5) Fade or Draw choice - I'm ok with this. Typically you play for one shot as you rarely (if ever) aim right at the target and hit your ball dead straight.

                              6) No idea on green break - ridiculous. You should be challenged to learn how to read the greens.


                              IMO, if the TW series could take the mechanics, physics and gameplay from Hot Shots Golf OOB and let you use it with real players, real courses, real tournaments, you'd have yourself an amazing game. HSG is the closest to representing real golf IMO. Yes, cartoonish players, goofy courses, blah blah blah. But in terms of being a game that you slowly master without it being cheap (see the 6 issues above), while relying upon understanding ball physics and terrain mastery, its as good as it gets.
                              1) Pin is viewable on every shot. Not sure what you are looking at.

                              2) Wind strength is determined by several factors, wind arrow fluctuation/vibration, tree and grass sway, etc. If you can't figure it out, turn MPH setting on.

                              3) I don't need a yardage book. All I need is to see the landing area just like I am on the tee or in the fairway. Plus, you know the distance to the pin on every shot along with the elevation plus the HUD gives you the yardage to the hole as well as the yardage of the club in your hand. Sorry, but I don't see the problem.

                              4) Not sure what your complaint is.

                              6) You contradict yourself. Reading the greens IS challenging because you have to check the lie of the ball and view the cup and surrounding horizon of the green to get a feel for it. That being said, I would prefer to have a view behind the cup to get a better feel of slope around the cup.

                              At the end of the day, Simulation mode is not for everyone. EA has given Tiger users more gameplay options and challenges than any previous Tiger version. Hot Shots Golf? Sorry, but I will agree to disagree. It's a nice little game, but I don't consider it much of a competitor to Tiger '14.
                              PC / Xbox One X

                              Xbox One Elite Controller

                              The Golf Club 2

                              Comment

                              • DivotMaker
                                MVP
                                • Jul 2002
                                • 2703

                                #195
                                Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

                                Originally posted by i3man
                                Green reading isn't bad at all. The game gives you two slope degree readings which tells you to what degree you're putting up or downhill and to what degree the ball is above or below your feet. I wish I had this info on fairway lies.
                                Actually you do.....plus you have the Strike Meter.....
                                PC / Xbox One X

                                Xbox One Elite Controller

                                The Golf Club 2

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