Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

[Zinger]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

Too much time and effort over the years have gone into sugar coating the game while the core is left out. couple examples of the "core":

I agree with you and the points you go on to list. Another one I can think of is the way the wind behaves randomly from one hole to another, not in accord with their relative layout. And the speed with which clouds scud across the sky sometimes is plain ludicrous. The game seems to be improving over the years but there has never been enough attention to detail and getting basic things right.

[BagMan]

Well stated. And if I come off as too defensive wrt the Devs, that is not my intention. I do enjoy a great relationship with them and they have become friends, but none of you get a chance to see the other side of the relationship when I get to report problems with the game and then how to go about fixing those issues. HANDSWARD will tell you that myself and the other TW Mods/Game Changers are their toughest critics when it comes to the game and the direction it is going. Some of you may not believe that, but it is a fact. At the end of the day, I am not here to pat the Devs on the back, but if I see a post that criticizes them unfairly or decisions about the game direction, etc unfairly, then I think it only fair to offer another side of the story that could dispel potential confusion or misinformation. I hope everyone feels that is a fair way to approach this. If not, let me know as I am open to suggestions. Thanks to all of you for your support of the game!

Would you mind relaying Globalbeats' concerns to the devs then? because he makes some very good observations and criticisms of the core gameplay that seem to have been overlooked year after year by both the devs and TWGC.

Really basic stuff that detracts from the immersion.

Thanks

[kerosene31]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

What's wrong with Tour Pro and why are you disappointed that you have to play it?

Since TW11, I've never found a good difficulty that offered a reasonable challenge while also offering realistic scores. I know I can customize things, but that doesn't really work online.

Maybe I'm the only one "stuck" between difficulty levels.

Tour pro is just a birdie fest. With a controller, missing the fairway is pretty much impossible for anyone who is decent at the game. I get that with forcing fade or draw on people is to try to fix that, but that doesn't feel right to me either (hitting a shot 30 degrees off center). Not having yardage is strange as well.

I guess we're maybe hit the limit of what a controller can do. I just thought TW11 with true aim was absolutely fantastic as far as a challenge and realism. You could see the hole from a top down view with relevant yardages, but you could only aim from the tee. To me that was perfect and I was sad to see it go. Again, it seems I'm the only one. I'd still be playing if it had online country clubs.

[BagMan]

Since TW11, I've never found a good difficulty that offered a reasonable challenge while also offering realistic scores. I know I can customize things, but that doesn't really work online.

Maybe I'm the only one "stuck" between difficulty levels.

Tour pro is just a birdie fest. With a controller, missing the fairway is pretty much impossible for anyone who is decent at the game. I get that with forcing fade or draw on people is to try to fix that, but that doesn't feel right to me either (hitting a shot 30 degrees off center). Not having yardage is strange as well.

I guess we're maybe hit the limit of what a controller can do. I just thought TW11 with true aim was absolutely fantastic as far as a challenge and realism. You could see the hole from a top down view with relevant yardages, but you could only aim from the tee. To me that was perfect and I was sad to see it go. Again, it seems I'm the only one. I'd still be playing if it had online country clubs.

I've had some pretty realistic results by :
1) limiting my golfer's attributes to 65 power and 35 everything else. The lack of power forces you to swing faster to maximize your distance, which increases your miss hits

2) change the swing stick to your least consistent hand. For me, I'm worse with the left thumb. This forces you to focus on your swing and can feel downright awkward at times when you're not in the groove.

3) no pins or spin ever

[HANDSWARD_EA]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

Since TW11, I've never found a good difficulty that offered a reasonable challenge while also offering realistic scores. I know I can customize things, but that doesn't really work online.

Maybe I'm the only one "stuck" between difficulty levels.

Tour pro is just a birdie fest. With a controller, missing the fairway is pretty much impossible for anyone who is decent at the game. I get that with forcing fade or draw on people is to try to fix that, but that doesn't feel right to me either (hitting a shot 30 degrees off center). Not having yardage is strange as well.

I guess we're maybe hit the limit of what a controller can do. I just thought TW11 with true aim was absolutely fantastic as far as a challenge and realism. You could see the hole from a top down view with relevant yardages, but you could only aim from the tee. To me that was perfect and I was sad to see it go. Again, it seems I'm the only one. I'd still be playing if it had online country clubs.

You can customize all you want online. You have the ability to set an online H2H game with any custom settings you want. You can also create tournaments for your Country CLub with any custom settings you want.

Forcing draw fade is not intended to make the game harder. It is intended to make the game more realistic. A nice byproduct of it is that it makes it harder. I have a detailed explanation on the EA forum if you want some insight into the feature. (Uggh, I can't post links cause I'm a noob. The thread is called "Why Advanced Shot Shaping" and it can be found on the official EA forum.)

The problem with Tiger 11 True Aim was that even though you couldn't aim from that zoomed state, you could use it to aim. Whatever was in the center of the screen was what you were aimed at. IMO, that version did nothing to make the game more challenging. It just made aiming take longer.

As far as a yardage book is concerned. We have the most detailed yardage book you can find when you combine the zoom, the yardages seen in the zoom, the exact distance to the flag is given to you on every shot, and the fact that you can move an aiming marker around and get the distance to any spot on the course that you want. That being said, when zoom is off, some of this goes away. But, IMO, this is not an issue. You are still given your exact distance to the flag. You can still move your aimer around to get distances (granted it is a little more difficult to see, but it is still there). Actually implementing some sort of yardage book or notebook crossed our minds, but it was a massive undertaking for something that would have only been used when one setting was off. Not much bang for the buck there.

Most importantly on the yardage issue, is that it just isn't needed for our hardcore users, which is who Simulation mode was made for. I am one of those hardcore users. I know every one of these courses (except the new ones, which I will learn quickly) like the back of my hand. I know that the expert pin on hole 1 of St. Andrews has about 4 yards of green between it and the creek. I know that I can't hit a driver downwind on hole 9 of East Lake cause it will go into the rough. I am a yardage book. And so are any of the hardcore users you come across in Tiger.

[HANDSWARD_EA]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

Would you mind relaying Globalbeats' concerns to the devs then? because he makes some very good observations and criticisms of the core gameplay that seem to have been overlooked year after year by both the devs and TWGC.

Really basic stuff that detracts from the immersion.

Thanks

No need, I saw it. And there were some excellent points in there. Several things that I have on my own personal list of things to change. But a few things I haven't really payed much attention to.

I've actually read through this entire thread, so don't think your posts have fallen on deaf ears.

[BagMan]

No need, I saw it. And there were some excellent points in there. Several things that I have on my own personal list of things to change. But a few things I haven't really payed much attention to.

I've actually read through this entire thread, so don't think your posts have fallen on deaf ears.

Thanks Hands! It's nice knowing there's someone out there.

[kerosene31]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

You can customize all you want online. You have the ability to set an online H2H game with any custom settings you want. You can also create tournaments for your Country CLub with any custom settings you want.

Forcing draw fade is not intended to make the game harder. It is intended to make the game more realistic. A nice byproduct of it is that it makes it harder. I have a detailed explanation on the EA forum if you want some insight into the feature. (Uggh, I can't post links cause I'm a noob. The thread is called "Why Advanced Shot Shaping" and it can be found on the official EA forum.)

The problem with Tiger 11 True Aim was that even though you couldn't aim from that zoomed state, you could use it to aim. Whatever was in the center of the screen was what you were aimed at. IMO, that version did nothing to make the game more challenging. It just made aiming take longer.

As far as a yardage book is concerned. We have the most detailed yardage book you can find when you combine the zoom, the yardages seen in the zoom, the exact distance to the flag is given to you on every shot, and the fact that you can move an aiming marker around and get the distance to any spot on the course that you want. That being said, when zoom is off, some of this goes away. But, IMO, this is not an issue. You are still given your exact distance to the flag. You can still move your aimer around to get distances (granted it is a little more difficult to see, but it is still there). Actually implementing some sort of yardage book or notebook crossed our minds, but it was a massive undertaking for something that would have only been used when one setting was off. Not much bang for the buck there.

Most importantly on the yardage issue, is that it just isn't needed for our hardcore users, which is who Simulation mode was made for. I am one of those hardcore users. I know every one of these courses (except the new ones, which I will learn quickly) like the back of my hand. I know that the expert pin on hole 1 of St. Andrews has about 4 yards of green between it and the creek. I know that I can't hit a driver downwind on hole 9 of East Lake cause it will go into the rough. I am a yardage book. And so are any of the hardcore users you come across in Tiger.

The yardage is already included in the game (at least in the demo). What is shown on tour pro difficulty is more than enough information. On that difficulty, it isn't needed at all because you just use the aiming anyway. On harder difficulties, it would actually be useful. That's great that you memorize every inch of every course. While I've enjoyed the TW series for years now, it obviously isn't the only game I play. I guess that makes me a casual. Personally I don't think a top down view of the hole with some basic yardages is a "cheat" or something unrealistic that a real pro wouldn't have with a caddy. Just my opinion though.

Custom difficulty is great (yes, people keep reminding me it is there needlessly). What are the odds I find a group who want similar settings? It seems to me most people are going to play sim, or one of the lower difficulties. Not saying it is impossible, but obviously I'm not in the majority.

Also, including the shot shaping in tour pro is a little weird too. I can either hit my easy straight shot, or go into hard mode to put a few yards of draw on the ball? I may as well just bump up to tournament and force myself to learn the harder swing in the first place.

[HANDSWARD_EA]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

Personally I don't think a top down view of the hole with some basic yardages is a "cheat" or something unrealistic that a real pro wouldn't have with a caddy. Just my opinion though.

Also, including the shot shaping in tour pro is a little weird too. I can either hit my easy straight shot, or go into hard mode to put a few yards of draw on the ball? I may as well just bump up to tournament and force myself to learn the harder swing in the first place.

I agree that a top down with yardages wouldn't be a cheat. Like I said, we debated a yardage book/notebook/hole map feature but came to the conclusion that it was too much of an undertaking and didn't fit into our scope.

Our current top down hole maps are not set up in any way to add to this data to them. They are merely static images. There is no size scale to them, making each one of them a unique image. To go into each and add yardages by hand to all of them would be a huge amount of work. Especially when you consider that there are 4 tee locations and 12 pin locations on each hole. We would have to have 48 versions of each hole map instead of the 1 version we use now cause of this.

We did investigate what it would take to make a dynamic hole map, but it was an expensive feature. And like I mentioned before, the fact that it would only be used when 1 setting was off, definitely not worth the investment.

A simpler solution that I wanted to do was provide a simple notebook that users could write into. So you could go into a course with zoom on, and scout it out. You could write down any things you felt were important about the hole and save it out in your caddie book to refer to later. (eg. 250 yards to right bunker. Expert pin has 2 yards of green to work with.) This was on the list of features early on, but complications with higher priority features slid it down to the cut list.

There is nothing stopping you from taking my notebook design an doing it yourself on paper. Many users have created course guides with all sorts of notes in them through the years. I know you say you are a more casual player, so I am not sure it would be worth the time investment for you.

I know the angled swing can seem difficult, but it is likely that it is more of a foreign mechanic when compared to what you are used to. With practice, it becomes much easier. If you give it enough time, I think you will get used to it and learn to enjoy the added challenge it delivers.

Also, I know you are probably sick of hearing the custom settings talk. But a thing that hasn't been said much in this thread is how the Swing Style feature can help you with the difficulty of the harder modes. All of the golfers in the demo are Power Golfers. It is extremely difficult to keep the ball on target with this style. I wish we had a Control Golfer in the demo. (Hindsight is 20:20, I also had nothing to do with the demo. I would have put one in there.) A accuracy advantage you get with a Control Golfer is night and day when compared to a Power Golfer. If Tournament difficulty is a little too hard for you using Power, it might be perfect for you using Control.

[simgameonly]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

Maybe handsward or someone else with an inner working knowledge can chime in on this question. In the retail build in a head to head game, or any sort of simulation tournament online can someone confirm for me that the practice swing is in fact there. In tiger 13 at tournament level with no swing meter there was no way to do a practice swing, i found that odd and it ruined the experience for me, especially with the shot clock feature enabled why not allow a practice swing option.

Hopefully this has been corrected for online play in tiger 14 i can only imagine no practice swing with advanced shot shaping in simulation difficulty, we should be able to practice our swing online it cant be a time issue with the shot clock feature. Can anyone confirm

[cccgolfer08]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

Maybe handsward or someone else with an inner working knowledge can chime in on this question. In the retail build in a head to head game, or any sort of simulation tournament online can someone confirm for me that the practice swing is in fact there. In tiger 13 at tournament level with no swing meter there was no way to do a practice swing, i found that odd and it ruined the experience for me, especially with the shot clock feature enabled why not allow a practice swing option.

Hopefully this has been corrected for online play in tiger 14 i can only imagine no practice swing with advanced shot shaping in simulation difficulty, we should be able to practice our swing online it cant be a time issue with the shot clock feature. Can anyone confirm

Based off previous versions of the game, I would assume that we would not be able to take Practice swings... however I am not sure on this.

[simgameonly]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

renders that mode unplayable online in my opinion if you are correct and its not sim at all, pros take practice swings before every shot , and with the shot clock feature it sure would be interesting to hear a plausible explanation as to why this is not an option, hope it makes it in, if its not already included

[DivotMaker]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

renders that mode unplayable online in my opinion if you are correct and its not sim at all, pros take practice swings before every shot , and with the shot clock feature it sure would be interesting to hear a plausible explanation as to why this is not an option, hope it makes it in, if its not already included

Opinions vary....personally I do not find a need to have a practice swing in any mode, but understand if you feel differently. It is like anything else, if you practice long and hard enough, you might feel differently soon after the game is made available....

[simgameonly]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

so divot do you have a working knowledge that it is unavailable, or were you just commenting? and yeah i guess i will have to say i strongly disagree with it not being available when it is seen anytime golf is broadcast and is an integral part of the game , i just really hope its different this year

additionally pga pros practice pretty long and hard at their craft, hopefully alot harder than people practice tiger woods, but they still take practice swings all the time on virtually every shot regardless of their tireless efforts on the range , so i dont see why we cant duplicate that in the game

Putting augusta in tournament conditions in the final round without a practice swing, lol sorry thats just stupid, playing 12 at august without a practice swing after all the wind calculations just to stand there and hit it, sorry never going to happen in real life, i could go on and on

[HANDSWARD_EA]

Re: Tiger Woods PGA TOUR 14 Demo Available Now, Post Your Impressions (PS3, 360)

The practice swing is not available in H2H. It is a tech limitation of how the practice swing works. That feature would need a rewrite to make it work in online H2H and it just didn't fit into the plan this year. It is something that was brought up during the cycle, but we looked at telemetry and saw that it was used on 0.00014% of shots (I just looked that number up again cause I knew saying less than 1% wasn't going to do it justice). I realize that these new mechanics make the argument that it will be used more this year. But that argument is valid last year as well, where we implemented a whole new swing mechanic, and several of the early tip videos stressed using the practice swing to get used to them.

It does work all modes outside of H2H, so at least we have that going for us.

PS. I had a lengthy reply a few hours ago to an earlier post but I don't see it at all. Shame, it was a good post. I really don't feel like typing all that again.