NHL 14: Keys to Best Last Year's Effort

[bwiggy33]

Re: NHL 14: Keys to Best Last Year's Effort

I think the problem with the AI is that the new skating engine "broke" the CPU AI.

AI has never been a strong thing with the game, but this year the skating engine just ruined the offline game. The CPU can never take speed and momentum into account. They just keep getting beat by faster skaters over and over. We humans adjusted to it no problem, but the CPU never does.

To compensate, they cranked up the CPU cheese even worse than before.

That's a very valid point. I think the new skating was a great idea and it looks extremely real for the most part. However, as you said it broke the game as far as AI offline. In no way did I expect the new skating engine to be perfect for 13. That would have been completely unrealistic. A feature like this takes multiple years to completely perfect, if that's even possible. Hell look at the hitting physics they added three years ago. It's still nowhere near being great. What I did think though, was that it would be implemented well enough so that vital parts of the hockey would not be affected.

One of my biggest fears was having too many breakaways from d men not being able to transition from forwards to backwards fast enough. That proved true. I tried so many different skating sliders and it just always seemed I was getting anywhere from 3-7 breakaways per game. If I was in my defensive zone and I got a turnover at the hash marks of either faceoff circle, there was no doubt I could skate all the way down the boards and once I got to the far blue line, I could cut to the middle for a breakaway. It was all due to that "stuck in mud" feeling that defensmen got transitioning from forwards to backwards. The d men just don't anticipate a turnover and in turn are unable to transition quickly enough to play a 1 on 1 with the forward. Quite frankly though, I don't know how they could program something like anticipation in the game. It definitely cannot be easy. The thing is though, it's one of those areas you have to account for adding a new skating engine to the game. For me this is one big area that has turned me away from the game.

[kerosene31]

Re: NHL 14: Keys to Best Last Year's Effort

One of my biggest fears was having too many breakaways from d men not being able to transition from forwards to backwards fast enough. That proved true. I tried so many different skating sliders and it just always seemed I was getting anywhere from 3-7 breakaways per game. If I was in my defensive zone and I got a turnover at the hash marks of either faceoff circle, there was no doubt I could skate all the way down the boards and once I got to the far blue line, I could cut to the middle for a breakaway. It was all due to that "stuck in mud" feeling that defensmen got transitioning from forwards to backwards. The d men just don't anticipate a turnover and in turn are unable to transition quickly enough to play a 1 on 1 with the forward. Quite frankly though, I don't know how they could program something like anticipation in the game. It definitely cannot be easy. The thing is though, it's one of those areas you have to account for adding a new skating engine to the game. For me this is one big area that has turned me away from the game.

Yes, I never had breakaways in NHL12 unless I got lucky hitting a guy out of the penalty box. In 13, I get them all the time.

It isn't going to be easy for them to fix. They have to take into account the skating abilities of all the players on the ice, game situation, etc. I play D all the time in the game, so it is easy for me, but I don't know how a computer program is going to understand it. They never needed to make decisions quickly, as they used to just turn on a dime. Now they have to read the play and react before things go bad.

[mynutees]

I never post on these forums BUT I do play NHL a lot, and have played every nhl since I can remember when I was a kid (now 30).

I really only play EASHL and have played this mode since 09...this mode is completely broken. I could rant on and on and on about how ****ty this mode is but I will highlight the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS

a) COMPUTER AI COMPLETELY BROKEN. Giveaways, passing back and forth between D-men, terrible passes up ice, passing behind the net, not gaining the offensive zone when they have possession and are right at the opposing blue line, terrible back checking, shooting immediately upon getting a pass in the offensive zone instead of making another pass first, terrible goalies who give up awful rebounds on soft flutterly wrist shots from the point ETC ETC ETC

Before anyone flames me for not having another 5 friends to play 6v6, sorry but life doesn't work that way when you're 30.

This game, and all previous versions of this game always start out pretty great. Then, without fail, they patch and tweak with tuners and the game becomes a joke. Whiny people complain about this and that and the developers release some garbage tuner to make it look like there is developer support and it just resets the game to garbage.

Want to know how to fix NHL 14? It's not the physics (broken) or the skating, or stupid Marc Savard and the rosters. Fix the ******* AI and, bam, I promise you the game will immediately become 150% better.

/thread.

[JezFranco]

Re: NHL 14: Keys to Best Last Year's Effort

Just posted this in another thread, but it might be better placed here.

Just read interesting new about PES 14/Winning Eleven, Konamis competitor to EA's FIFA/Soccer.

One of the main focus is improved visuals. According to Edge, PES 2014 will use the Fox Engine, the next-gen graphics engine currently in works under Hideo Kojima. Konami aims to bring photo-realistic graphics with detailed player faces and a new 'Barycentre physics' engine that gives different body parts different weights. This should significantly improve character movement, and the impact of collisions will depend on which part of the body is hit.

The new engine allows for a larger separation between player and ball - three time the radius of PES 2013, where tight 'confrontation' zones are used to make tackling easier. A striker will be able to throw his body weight in one direction and use his opposing foot to push the ball in the other way, leaving defenders off balance and buying space for a pass or shot. Players have specific centres of balance, calculated by locating their centre of gravity, or barycentre. You'll be able to control your player's weight shifts at all times and use practice touches to push the ball away from your feet.

Source: IGN http://me.ign.com/en/news/8613/pes-2...ses-fox-engine

I wish NHL would have this competition, it would surely put some pressure on EA's NHL team.

[NHLandPESFan]

Re: NHL 14: Keys to Best Last Year's Effort

I wish NHL would have this competition, it would surely put some pressure on EA's NHL team.

It's no coincidence that FIFA is much higher rated than NHL looking at review scores because EA has to try a lot harder with it because of the competition. NHL hasn't wowed anybody since they got good right before 2k left the scene and have been stagnating since. The woes of Madden are well known.

[PuckinNutz]

A big improvement would be the use of dedicated servers, there is too much latency in these p2p games, really makes or breaks your night. Ive got 100Mbps down and 21mbps up and I still have latency issues. I also hate the use of the 6'9 280 butterfly goalies that sit in the net and think they are good. That kind of stuff needs to go. Normal goalies were pretty decent until the last tuner went out 2 months ago, now they are just sieves

[savoie2006]

Re: NHL 14: Keys to Best Last Year's Effort

It's no coincidence that FIFA is much higher rated than NHL looking at review scores because EA has to try a lot harder with it because of the competition. NHL hasn't wowed anybody since they got good right before 2k left the scene and have been stagnating since. The woes of Madden are well known.

I can guarantee you it wasn't NHL 2K pushing this series to the next level, not since the push into the 360/PS3 era. The closest 2K came was 2K7, which was only because NHL 07 was bare bones. 2K8, which couldn't compete due to lackluster graphics and complex controls. Competition only equals a choice for consumers, not better development. That comes down to money folks. When one company makes the better game and gets the lions share of the money, the other suffers which is what has happened. Games like NBA 2K, The Show, and NHL have seriously outclassed the competition, which in turn has basically eliminated them because those developers aren't bringing in enough for serious upgrades and such.

[jyoung]

Re: NHL 14: Keys to Best Last Year's Effort

A big improvement would be the use of dedicated servers, there is too much latency in these p2p games, really makes or breaks your night. Ive got 100Mbps down and 21mbps up and I still have latency issues. I also hate the use of the 6'9 280 butterfly goalies that sit in the net and think they are good. That kind of stuff needs to go. Normal goalies were pretty decent until the last tuner went out 2 months ago, now they are just sieves

Only versus games and HUT use a peer-to-peer connection.

EASHL and OTP games use dedicated servers.

Madden is the same way. All 1 vs. 1 game modes are peer-to-peer, but team play is run through a dedicated server.

[Nickflyers]

Re: NHL 14: Keys to Best Last Year's Effort

- Fix the checking
- Fix the Hip Check
- New Presentation
- Fix the BAGM AI
- Better Player separation


That's just off the top of my head.

[DJ]

Re: NHL 14: Keys to Best Last Year's Effort

I can guarantee you it wasn't NHL 2K pushing this series to the next level, not since the push into the 360/PS3 era. The closest 2K came was 2K7, which was only because NHL 07 was bare bones. 2K8, which couldn't compete due to lackluster graphics and complex controls. Competition only equals a choice for consumers, not better development. That comes down to money folks. When one company makes the better game and gets the lions share of the money, the other suffers which is what has happened. Games like NBA 2K, The Show, and NHL have seriously outclassed the competition, which in turn has basically eliminated them because those developers aren't bringing in enough for serious upgrades and such.

NHL 2K7 and NBA 2K7 were the reasons I bought my 360. I wasn't a fan of 2K8's controls so I switched to EA's game and never went back.

I can still enjoy the NHL series but there needs to be serious improvements made to CPU AI, HUM teammate AI and presentation as we head into the PS4/720 era.

[bwiggy33]

Re: NHL 14: Keys to Best Last Year's Effort

NHL 2K7 and NBA 2K7 were the reasons I bought my 360. I wasn't a fan of 2K8's controls so I switched to EA's game and never went back.

I can still enjoy the NHL series but there needs to be serious improvements made to CPU AI, HUM teammate AI and presentation as we head into the PS4/720 era.

Absolutely correct. You said it before DJ, the majority of people who have disliked NHL for the past few years are the people who have purchased it every year for this gen. I fall into that category, in fact I've got it on release day each year just like I'm sure many other people.

It's been minor improvements all along to the core essentials of the game, when they've need major improvements. To me after 7 years on 360 they should have AI almost spot on, but it doesn't come close. They should have created a whole new goaltending system at some point (they had to have know it was bad), but they didn't. That's two huge areas that have been touched up very little in 7 years.

The game has no question gotten better since 07, but it hasn't gotten the attention that it's needed in the correct areas. I don't know hardware or any of that type of stuff, but I will say that if EA finds a way to use the memory and power of the new consoles, this game could be unbelievable. If this means more AI programming, better physics, authentic arenas, then I cannot wait. All I want is an NHL game that I can play all year long and still feel like anything can happen each time I play it.

[DJ]

Re: NHL 14: Keys to Best Last Year's Effort

Absolutely correct. You said it before DJ, the majority of people who have disliked NHL for the past few years are the people who have purchased it every year for this gen. I fall into that category, in fact I've got it on release day each year just like I'm sure many other people.

It's been minor improvements all along to the core essentials of the game, when they've need major improvements. To me after 7 years on 360 they should have AI almost spot on, but it doesn't come close. They should have created a whole new goaltending system at some point (they had to have know it was bad), but they didn't. That's two huge areas that have been touched up very little in 7 years.

The game has no question gotten better since 07, but it hasn't gotten the attention that it's needed in the correct areas. I don't know hardware or any of that type of stuff, but I will say that if EA finds a way to use the memory and power of the new consoles, this game could be unbelievable. If this means more AI programming, better physics, authentic arenas, then I cannot wait. All I want is an NHL game that I can play all year long and still feel like anything can happen each time I play it.

Do you have Custom AI settings for the CPU? I only play Play Now games since Be A GM is a tired game mode to me. With custom settings, you could at least get the CPU teams to show some personality differences.

Having CPU teams play different styles is imperative for this series, imo. All the CPU teams play exactly the same and that eliminates the fun after a while. NCAA and Madden (more so in 12 than 13) do a pretty good job at this and MLB The Show separates teams with ratings and the number of pitchers you face in a Franchise makes every game different. NBA 2K needs some help from the user to accomplish this, but with the right roster edits it can be done.

NHL has ratings for teams too bunched together, same with players from team to team. No real separation leads to funky results in simming and causes that CPU stagnancy. The roster edits for NHL help a little but not enough to make a big difference in the overall experience.

[bwiggy33]

Re: NHL 14: Keys to Best Last Year's Effort

Do you have Custom AI settings for the CPU? I only play Play Now games since Be A GM is a tired game mode to me. With custom settings, you could at least get the CPU teams to show some personality differences.

Yep I've done that. That was the very first thing I did when I got the game. It definitely helps but for me I can only do play now games for so long. I need franchise mode and obviously the fact the AI settings aren't in BeAGM kind of screws that up. I could do season but I like drafting and building a team.

If they add more options to the the AI settings as well as the ability to use them in BeAGM then that would be huge. It would also be great if they could give us the opportunity to remedy the easy zone entry. Redshirt came out and said the developers make it easy to enter the Off zone on purpose because casual players would hate it if they couldn't get into the zone. If they added a slider to the AI settings that would really help. Then if they put in a couple more AI options for offensive zone pressure and defensive zone pressure (realistic not superhuman CPU AI) we could really develop some settings that mimic how each team plays.

More options is always better as long as they work properly. Let people chose how they want to play the game. I'm making it sound like it's easy and I know it's not, but I feel if they would have done this from the get go, this game would be so much further along.

[RLaguna]

Re: NHL 14: Keys to Best Last Year's Effort

I agree mostly with the above poster and what to further add what I think are the major problems with this game...( and series lately)

For one, The teams do play too much like carbon copies of each other, even despite the fact that their Team Strategy sections do indeed show different settings from team to team....its just not distinct enough on the ice to really notice the different team styles of play like you actually see in the real NHL.

Another problem that could be related to the above problem, is the lack of real seperation of player skills....Im not just talking about distinctions between good and bad players, Im talking more about all the subtle attributes that make up a player's unique profile and play style. In the real NHL, you can instanly see all the nuances of each player's skill sets if you watch them. The NHL 2k series did a wonderful job of creating all these subtle player ratings and attributes and I think the EA series has to do a better job of creating seperation in these subtle player traits on the ice to create a much more dynamic experience

A 3rd problem which can also be related to the above 2 issues creating sterile and very dejavu and repetive game to game experiences that get dull is the fact that the game's core AI engine needs to be greatly expanded to be more human like and less predictable in certain situations....There has to be more of a variety in decision making, mistakes, mental errors, and just all around deaper ai analysis rather than just having the game's AI trigger events when certain circumstances are true....its too predictable and routine and appears very shallow.


4th problem, is the game needs to do a much better job of animating a much greater range of player movements and motions to capture all the essence of NHL players with much improved physics engine playing a larger, more realistic role in the interactions of the player, and puck. Checking should be more fierce and animated with greater variety...not more Explosive and fake, but just more natural and realistic looking with a greater range of banging up into the boards and scrumming for loose pucks....There is simply too much cleanly executed tick- tack- toe hockey. There should be a much greater sense of struggle and physicality to get off a clean shot...Needs to just be a better mix (ratio) of sloppy and grinding fight for possession of the puck hockey versus all out end to end hockey

And Finally, I really think the Franchise Mode is pathetic and has been the most under inspiring Franchise mode of any sports game for the last several years now! There is no sense of playing with other NHL teams in your league. You feel so alone. There should be a main News Section that encapsulates all the News and Stories from around the League.

You should be able to dig deeper into stats and boxscores around the league by clicking on them to open up more detailed information. You should be able to click on teams in the standings to see a deeper level of team detail and scheduling and scores, stats, etc from each team

And you should be able to click on a DAILY Schedule of ALL TEAM GAMES and be able to PLAY or SIM ANY GAME on the schedule if you like. This allows you the flexibility and freedom to play key games between 2 teams that you may want to play out rather than your own teams game. And it would also allow you to play out the post season playoff games as well if you wanted to. Franchise Mode needs much more in terms of factoids, on screen stats, presentation and just all around freedom and customization options available to the user to custom taylor more of a sandbox Franchise League of their choice...the way they want to play it.

[DJ]

Re: NHL 14: Keys to Best Last Year's Effort

Yep I've done that. That was the very first thing I did when I got the game. It definitely helps but for me I can only do play now games for so long. I need franchise mode and obviously the fact the AI settings aren't in BeAGM kind of screws that up. I could do season but I like drafting and building a team.

If they add more options to the the AI settings as well as the ability to use them in BeAGM then that would be huge. It would also be great if they could give us the opportunity to remedy the easy zone entry. Redshirt came out and said the developers make it easy to enter the Off zone on purpose because casual players would hate it if they couldn't get into the zone. If they added a slider to the AI settings that would really help. Then if they put in a couple more AI options for offensive zone pressure and defensive zone pressure (realistic not superhuman CPU AI) we could really develop some settings that mimic how each team plays.

More options is always better as long as they work properly. Let people chose how they want to play the game. I'm making it sound like it's easy and I know it's not, but I feel if they would have done this from the get go, this game would be so much further along.

You can use custom AI in Season Mode? What about Playoff Mode? Would you mind sending me a PM with the changes you made to the CPU teams?

Giving us the ability to carry these edits over into Be A GM would be huge.

Your point about gaining the offensive zone brings me back to what other people have mentioned: EA should really look at using something similar to 2K's gameplay settings where you have Arcade/Normal/Simulation options. Let the casual guys play on Arcade and Normal and the sim guys can use the Simulation option.