Don't Expect a Change in the NFL License Status Quo

[m1ke_nyc]

Re: Don't Expect a Change in the NFL License Status Quo

...and again I will contend that thinking because when games like The Sims (one of EA's own games) sells like crazy, it goes against your logic of what a casual gamer has to be. If creating and customizing are so bad, then why do games that offer more of it sell so much? Even for games that don't specifically offer modifications, they end up being modded by people and offered online. If modding something as simple as rosters on a football game isn't that big of a deal...why does every football forum seemingly have someone there offering a means of modded, customizable and/or updated rosters..?

Sports games are different. The casual gamer wants to play with their favorite teams, not the Atlanta Rockers. Look at Backbreaker and All Pro Football. Decent games for what they had to offer but the lack of being actual NFL games ultimately hurt them with the casual gamer. You cant compare the Sims to video game football. Name the last generic sports title to come close to selling as much as the pro licensed sports title in its genre ? YOU CANT As far as your modding question goes THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT THE CASUAL SPORTS FANS. Those are the die hards like me and you. The casual sports fans are not on the forums looking for customizable rosters.

[Bull_Dozer]

I don't care about the NFL license. If an game comes out that is just generic football, and it's a good game, I will buy it. Hell, just give me the ability to edit everything and I'll be happy.

[gr18]

Re: Don't Expect a Change in the NFL License Status Quo

2k football still plays better than Madden.The lack of a franchises mode,and ability to customize 32 teams into it is the main reason many people aren't playing it now instead of sticking with their preferred Madden version.

I highly doubt we'll see anything change but I have no doubt that 2k would come out with a better product right away if given the opportunity.

[PacMan3000]

Re: Don't Expect a Change in the NFL License Status Quo

After all these years, I'm still surprised there hasn't been a bigger outcry and outrage by gamers about the exclusivity deal.

If people walked into grocery stores across America and the only soda that was offered was Pepsi, people would be outraged. But for some reason, there doesn't seem to be much overwhelming furor about Madden being the sole NFL game you can get on store shelves. Not now, and in my opinion, not when the exclusive deal was finalized years ago, either.

[cuttingteeth]

Re: Don't Expect a Change in the NFL License Status Quo

Sports games are different. The casual gamer wants to play with their favorite teams, not the Atlanta Rockers. Look at Backbreaker and All Pro Football. Decent games for what they had to offer but the lack of being actual NFL games ultimately hurt them with the casual gamer. You cant compare the Sims to video game football. Name the last generic sports title to come close to selling as much as the pro licensed sports title in its genre ? YOU CANT As far as your modding question goes THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT THE CASUAL SPORTS FANS. Those are the die hards like me and you. The casual sports fans are not on the forums looking for customizable rosters.

Ah, I see...you can't read between the lines of what I'm trying to convey. Have you ever used Teambuilder for the NCAA football games? It allows you to use any picture logo (so long as you resize it accordingly - easy to do) and upload it, and it becomes your helmet and/or jersey/pants logo and even your field/stadium logo. It works. I've created the Houston Oilers among many other NFL teams before. The only one I can't create accurately is how the Bengals are done, but I'm sure that's a short tweaking of code to allow for. I've created XFL, CFL, etc. teams. You can then put whatever names anywhere you want, too - your players size, weight, skin color, attributes, etc. exactly as you want...create a stadium close to exact or use established ones (when allowed). It's soooo close to the real thing.

The only other thing you are really making me understand is that you think the majority of folks are too lazy to do any of the work. I'll go with that...but it still wouldn't ruin the game selling any because all of you lazy mofo's would do the same thing you do now by downloading and uploading the changed files someone like me already did for you. Everything would cross-reference so well that it would still be a game the majority would purchase. If you wanted to customize it, it's for you. If you just want to DL what everyone else customized and/or tweak it a little when you choose, you could do that, too.

With all the combined (even little) things that you HAVE to do to Madden as is already, I don't see it being any different...even for the laziest, casual gamer that absolutely loved Madden 13.

[gr18]

Re: Don't Expect a Change in the NFL License Status Quo

Ah, I see...you can't read between the lines of what I'm trying to convey. Have you ever used Teambuilder for the NCAA football games? It allows you to use any picture logo (so long as you resize it accordingly - easy to do) and upload it, and it becomes your helmet and/or jersey/pants logo and even your field/stadium logo. It works. I've created the Houston Oilers among many other NFL teams before. The only one I can't create accurately is how the Bengals are done, but I'm sure that's a short tweaking of code to allow for. I've created XFL, CFL, etc. teams. You can then put whatever names anywhere you want, too - your players size, weight, skin color, attributes, etc. exactly as you want...create a stadium close to exact or use established ones (when allowed). It's sooo close to the real thing.

The only other thing you are really making me understand is that you think the majority of folks are too lazy to do any of the work. I'll go with that...but it still wouldn't ruin the game selling any because all of you lazy mofo's would do the same thing you do now by downloading and uploading the changed files someone like me already did for you. Everything would cross-reference so well that it would still be a game the majority would purchase. If you wanted to customize it, it's for you. If you just want to DL what everyone else customized and/or tweak it a little when you choose, you could do that, too.

With all the combined (even little) things that you HAVE to do to Madden as is already, I don't see it being any different...even for the laziest, casual gamer that absolutely loved Madden 13
.

As flawed of a game as Backbreaker is people still went through the customization it provided with logos/uniforms.I've done community 2k5 rosters in the past that took quite extensive time.If a game were to give us the whole package of options that was also actually a good game there's no doubt that the majority here would be on board whether they were committed to customizing themselves or taking what some of us create.Granted most of us aren't casual football fans.The general public would just buy the licensed game and make do.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Don't Expect a Change in the NFL License Status Quo

Yeah the masses are trying to play with their favorite teams and their favorite players. I know people who don't even like NCAA because they say it's too "fake" because it doesn't have real players by default. Don't give the general public too much credit, lol, most don't really want to take the time to play a customized game. Why go through all that trouble when they can just buy Madden, which most enjoy as it is.

[damedash]

*That, not that's

What up sim? Good to see you on here man...I hope with your help madden 25 will be a great game. Last year was the first year that I didn't purchase a madden game. I play sim style against users and the CPU to best replicate live sports action and when I play nba2k it is very enjoyable, but when I play madden it just doesn't feel sim no matter what sliders you adjust or difficulty adjustments. I want to see a discrepancy when I play against different teams. I want to be scared when Tom Brady spreads out my (redskins) defense and he is pointing out who the mike is. I want to see the QB walk up to the line and survey the defense before he hikes the ball. Is that too much to ask?

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Don't Expect a Change in the NFL License Status Quo

NFL gaming is dead. If you don't like Madden, then you won't be playing an NFL game. Ever. This deal will be in existence for as long as EA is in business. I didn't buy madden from 2001 to 2010. I bought 11 new (big mistake) then I got 12 and 13 used for 20.00 off of craigs list. I won't even do that now. I've completely lost interest. It's an embarrassingly bad product made by really bad developers. Football gaming was really the only kind of gaming I was interested in, but I've now lost interest. I love the NFL and always will, but no more games. 2k is still 1000x better on the field than Madden. EA will not change anything. They will continue to push a call of duty style development process with Madden. There is a new generation of gamers coming up. They have never played any other game so Madden is very appealing with its flashy graphics and catchy marketing schemes. I've said this from the beginning and I will continue to say it. EA will not only renew the license, but it will be a very long deal. Maybe even 10 years. Not only that, but it will be financially favorable to EA. It will be much cheaper. Also - I can assure you that 2k is NOT working on a football game. I do know they WANT to make one, but you don't pay for resources to work on something that may never bring in revenue. No company will ever do that.

At the end of the day, play the games that you enjoy that are actual professional grade products. I've found that there are some games being made that aren't sports games that are absolutely amazing, and worth my time and money. They are fun, immersive and tons of effort was put into them to stretch the limits of my imagination. That is everything that Madden is NOT. I'm with KJ - I've lost all interest in NFL gaming now. I'll play a game of APF 2k8 where it's realistic football with amazing gameplay if I really need to play a football game.

I can totally empathize with everyone saying to speak with your wallet. However, Madden is just too big of a brand name. It's not going to change anything. I will continue to speak with mine, but at the end of the day, it won't make a difference. Quite frankly, I've grown really tired of this whole thing. The arguments, venom, disputes, etc. etc. that have all resulted from a game - it's silly and there are better things to discuss/do.

At this point - you can't argue with the Maddenites. They will tell you that your only two choices are fall in line and put up with the game or simply don't buy it. As much as that might suck, they are right.

I haven't totally given up hope. EA couldn've locked up the license for the next ten years already but instead chose to ask for a $30 million reduction just to extend for 1 year. They also let the NCAA exclusive expire. Loss of sales can affect the deal. According to this article the NFLPA agreement costs EA $30 - 40 million annually. That adds up to 500,000 - 650,000 sales (assuming EA gets 59.99 for each sale which we know it doesn't). Then they still have to give the NFL their cut.

With no agreement in place for Madden 15, if there was ever a time to pass on Madden and speak with your wallet it's now.

So it's wait and see for me. I've spent the last few years playing other games. Thanks to the football video game situation, I bought Rocksmith and spent the past year learning guitar. Bandfuse is set to release this spring so I'll just keep enjoying my new hobby. If the deal ends, great. If it doesn't, oh well. I'm with you on the arguements, venom and disputes getting tiring. I've got better things to do with my time.

[Crimsontide27]

After all these years, I'm still surprised there hasn't been a bigger outcry and outrage by gamers about the exclusivity deal.

If people walked into grocery stores across America and the only soda that was offered was Pepsi, people would be outraged. But for some reason, there doesn't seem to be much overwhelming furor about Madden being the sole NFL game you can get on store shelves. Not now, and in my opinion, not when the exclusive deal was finalized years ago, either.

I disagree. There has been an outcry by a ton of gamers about the exclusive agreement, its just that its been censored and suppressed. If you complained about the agreement here, then you were infracted or banned. If you complained about it on any numerous fansites such as maddennation, maddenmania, traditionsports etc...you were infracted or banned. If you mentioned it on the official EA forums, then it was deleted as soon as it was noticed etc.

Pretty much the only places you can go and talk about it where it wont be censored is on websites that really have nothing to do with sportsgaming, such as Anandtech, Gamefaqs, and any other numerous sites that dont focus on sports gaming.

It is in the best interests of the main video game sports websites to keep EA in its good graces for access to devs and the perks that come along with it.

[DaSmerg]

I agree with Matthew's general conclusion that we'll keep on seeing EAS/Tiburon's Madden product as the virtual NFL flag bearer but I don't agree with his premise of 'why'.

If you look at the NFL product licensing business model, its stuck in a exclusive contract business model, with EA basically along for the ride and reaping the benefits.

There's another question about who would be able to pony up the mega-bucks that an NFL and NFLPA licensing deal would require AND develop a competitive/compelling product.

I'd agree with some other posters that the competition and competitive pressure will come from the NCAA games with EA's court recorded mandate to no longer do exclusive deals in this area.

[Crimsontide27]

I agree with Matthew's general conclusion that we'll keep on seeing EAS/Tiburon's Madden product as the virtual NFL flag bearer but I don't agree with his premise of 'why'.

If you look at the NFL product licensing business model, its stuck in a exclusive contract business model, with EA basically along for the ride and reaping the benefits.

There's another question about who would be able to pony up the mega-bucks that an NFL and NFLPA licensing deal would require AND develop a competitive/compelling product.

I'd agree with some other posters that the competition and competitive pressure will come from the NCAA games with EA's court recorded mandate to no longer do exclusive deals in this area.

It all depends on how much EA is willing to pay for the exclusive contract. There is no way they can agree to another $300m deal, and I dont know of any other company other than one that would put up that amount and they have yet to release a football title.

I dont think it would be a good choice for any other company to pony up that amount of cash for a title with very little market recognition, and as such, I dont see it happening. EA certainly didnt get the sales it was expecting from this agreement, nor the profits that were forecasted.

They are in financial trouble at the moment, so they dont have much cash to really toss around at this point. They may keep the agreement, but it will be for much less.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Don't Expect a Change in the NFL License Status Quo

Ah, I see...you can't read between the lines of what I'm trying to convey. Have you ever used Teambuilder for the NCAA football games? It allows you to use any picture logo (so long as you resize it accordingly - easy to do) and upload it, and it becomes your helmet and/or jersey/pants logo and even your field/stadium logo. It works. I've created the Houston Oilers among many other NFL teams before. The only one I can't create accurately is how the Bengals are done, but I'm sure that's a short tweaking of code to allow for. I've created XFL, CFL, etc. teams. You can then put whatever names anywhere you want, too - your players size, weight, skin color, attributes, etc. exactly as you want...create a stadium close to exact or use established ones (when allowed). It's soooo close to the real thing.

The only other thing you are really making me understand is that you think the majority of folks are too lazy to do any of the work. I'll go with that...but it still wouldn't ruin the game selling any because all of you lazy mofo's would do the same thing you do now by downloading and uploading the changed files someone like me already did for you. Everything would cross-reference so well that it would still be a game the majority would purchase. If you wanted to customize it, it's for you. If you just want to DL what everyone else customized and/or tweak it a little when you choose, you could do that, too.

With all the combined (even little) things that you HAVE to do to Madden as is already, I don't see it being any different...even for the laziest, casual gamer that absolutely loved Madden 13.

I am with you sir and I think sometimes people can get stuck in a status quo group think and only see things that way. For instance this thread, there are people that seem to think this write up somehow confirms an extension of the exclusive, which it doesn't, it's just the writer's opinion. Same thing with opinions about what casuals will or will not buy based on what past non-licensed football game sales were. APF and BB each had issues that prevented me from getting either one but had they been fully fleshed out football games, minus a NFL/NFLPA license, with community modding capability/sharing, I would've purchased both. Granted I am not a casual football gamer but I think people underestimate the power of word of mouth through social networking and media these days.

It's all about trends with casuals and if Take Two were to create a fully customizable complete non-licensed football game, that the hardcore football modding community could "fill in the NFL blanks" for, word of mouth and popularity would quickly spread through YouTube, Facebook, Twitchtv, etc. That's another reason I feel that the exclusive is ending because, imo, the prospect of some company creating a fully customizable football game is likely even greater on the new consoles, considering development is supposed to be better.

It's funny how people can say "it won't happen non-licensed football games don't sell" but that didn't stop APF from trying or BB after that, so another company or either of these, trying it again on the new consoles, IF the exclusive is renewed, is feasible.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Don't Expect a Change in the NFL License Status Quo

I could see a customizable football game being embraced on PC somewhat, but console no way. I just can't see it happening.

[roadman]

Re: Don't Expect a Change in the NFL License Status Quo

It's funny how people can say "it won't happen non-licensed football games don't sell" but that didn't stop APF from trying or BB after that, so another company or either of these, trying it again on the new consoles, IF the exclusive is renewed, is feasible.

I will agree with Big, that the potential is feasible, but probably not profitable. All other companies need to do is look at the profits of BB and APF going up vs Madden and they will probably turn the other cheek.

I don't know many companies out there that want to lose money or stay even.

Let's just say I need to be proven that a non-licensed game will make money before I jump on that bandwagon.

Two tried, but didn't succeed from a profit standpoint.