Destined to lose?

[stealyerface]

Re: Destined to lose?

I am covering some of this in a thread about players having +/- games, and sometimes I do feel like there are some supernatural forces at work.

One instance for sure is the game I left David Ortiz at first after an inter-league game, and not wanting to start all over, let him play over there.

Two runners on, no one out, and there is a little tiny pop-up to Ortiz. Like, right to him. But while the ball is in the air, I notice the guy at first and second take off, obviously running themselves into a potential triple play (my first ever) and I cannot believe my luck. Ahhh... but not so fast my friend. Ortiz, midway through his two steps towards the ball, stumbles and trips in an odd drunken sailor sort of dance, and the ball drops right next to him, which he proceeds to completely overrun as he continues his animation, and both runners advance two bases, scoring one, and leaving me with no outs and runners on first and third.

No, I understand that Big Papi is a liability in the field, but this pop up was not even hit hard or high enough to warrant an infield-fly rule, and it was literally two steps from him, and the runners knew... the KNEW he was going to drop it.

So while i am not a conspiracy theorist with regards to comeback/predestination etc... Something was amiss with that particular play. He was GOING to drop it, and there was NOTHING I could do to change that fact.

~syf

[bukktown]

Re: Destined to lose?

If I run into a lineup with a lot of fire icons then I feel destined to lose.

[chrishthomas]

Re: Destined to lose?

I think anyone who plays enough games of The Show will experience those times when it feels like nothing is going your way...when you have the pitch timed just right, your batter makes poor contact; or, every time you have good timing and good contact, it goes right to someone.

For those who play with pure analog or timing, where the CPU determines the PCI placement as opposed to being placed by the user, I think there is an even greater tendency to at least harbor that thought in the back of your mind.

It's just one of those things, but in the end I think it balances out. I've definitely had games where my guys tore the cover off the ball, and I don't think it was anything that I was doing particularly better than any other day. There are so many variables at play during any given game, or on any given pitch and hit, that some of this just comes down to the random nature of the those elements.

However, I think there is one thing we often overlook. Although this is pretty close to a simulation, there is a certain aspect that significantly deviates from real life. Specifically, when the Nats show up at the ball park, let's say Bryce didn't get a whole of rest the night before, and he's just not himself: he's not picking up the ball out of the pitcher's hand, he's not being patient, or he's just late on every fastball...Well, other than the fact that he might not move runners around the bases, his struggles at the plate won't translate to the performance of his teammates.

But, if I'm playing a game with the Nats, and I'm tired, and I'm not picking up the ball well, or I'm swinging at everything, or I just can't wait long enough on that big sweeping curveball...that isn't constrained to just one player, it impacts (infects) every player on the roster. I will struggle all night, with whoever happens to be in the batter's box: Harper, LaRoche, Desmond, Werth, you name it--they will all be hampered by my poor performance.

Even on the other side of the ball, if on some given day, I can't get the stick movement right for my pitching, then changing pitchers won't really cure the problem. My lack of coordination that day will affect whoever I have on the mound.

When you think about it like that, it's easy to see how a slight performance degradation on the player's part can translate into a game where it feels like nothing is going your way, you can't get a hit to save your life, and you are just destined to lose.

[Bobhead]

Re: Destined to lose?

I think anyone who plays enough games of The Show will experience those times when it feels like nothing is going your way...when you have the pitch timed just right, your batter makes poor contact; or, every time you have good timing and good contact, it goes right to someone.

...

But, if I'm playing a game with the Nats, and I'm tired, and I'm not picking up the ball well, or I'm swinging at everything, or I just can't wait long enough on that big sweeping curveball...that isn't constrained to just one player, it impacts (infects) every player on the roster. I will struggle all night, with whoever happens to be in the batter's box: Harper, LaRoche, Desmond, Werth, you name it--they will all be hampered by my poor performance.

...

When you think about it like that, it's easy to see how a slight performance degradation on the player's part can translate into a game where it feels like nothing is going your way, you can't get a hit to save your life, and you are just destined to lose.

Great post, but the "group results" tendency you describe is not so unrealistic. The Pirates, Cubs, Phillies, and Blue Jays will tell you: Both failure and success are highly contagious, even in real life baseball.

I actually like this variation in my own playing ability, since it adds to the variation in the games I get over the course of a 162 game season. It's nice to feel confident and feel like I'm responsible for that 7 game winning streak.

[chrishthomas]

Re: Destined to lose?

Hey Bob,
Yeah, I definitely agree about success and failure creating those spillover effects. I didn't mean for my post to exclude those kinds of contagion effects, because I certainly agree that they do exist. And there are even effects related to things like a player trying to do more at the plate because he knows the team's real run-producer is out of the lineup that day, or not feeling well, or in a slump. Yes, I concur those types of things definitely have group-level impact.

I was trying to limit my statement to that idea that my actual physiological state (fatigued versus well-rested; stressed versus relaxed) and my physical responses (mental processing time, accuracy and speed of thumb and control movements) is going to be similar for each and every player. I'm not sure emotional contagion has those types of discrete influences.

I probably should have been more explicit so as not to discount the viability of those effects that you have described.

[willIam9387]

Re: Destined to lose?

It certainly feels at times you are destined to lose, but just watching your favorite baseball team in real life it seems as if you are destined to lose as well. That is baseball. It's a statisical driven sport which has its results spread out over a large sample size compared to other sports. You can experience a lot of peaks, valleys, and the mundane in 162 games. There are times I've lost in devastating fashions at the hands of the computer. Blowing five run leads, blowing a save, etc. and sometimes they happen in a row, but that's the beauty of the show. It's unforgiving and forgiving, but that is baseball. Ever throw a meatball in the Show and the batter swings through it? Ever throw a great pitch and the batter takes you yard leaving you in disbelief? That happens in the real life major leagues.

I've had innings in the field that I want to forget. Innings where the opposing teams hit four rinky dink singles, I strike two out, and then the next hitter hits a moon shot for a grand slam. And hitting is the same way. You tee up on a pitch, hit a laser beam and the centerfielder dives and makes a ridiculous catch, the next hitter you hit a seeing eye single.

It's always important to remember that the only way you can combat things when they aren't going in your favor is to focus on making every pitch count. Have a strategy and try to execute, and if you don't, well then that's just the nature of the game. A beautiful game at that.

[vinny_pizza]

... Ahhh... but not so fast my friend. Ortiz, midway through his two steps towards the ball, stumbles and trips in an odd drunken sailor sort of dance, and the ball drops right next to him...

Waiting for a meeting to start and absolutely laughed out loud at this. You managed to work in a Lee Corso catch phrase and a drunken sailor reference, just awesome.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

[THESHAMISASHAME]

Re: Destined to lose?

While MLB 13 is greatly improved in this area and I do feel like I always have a chance it still doesnt do it for me in the long haul so I sold it .
I just feel pitching confidence needs to be re worked changed and not tweeked as I just hate the feeling when Im dominating almost like Im not even playing with little effort by myself and then at other times I do things perfect and struggle

Now I understand the why and how SCEA does it this way but its still to drastic IMO which then lowers my interaction, replay and fun values overtime .

[SmooveMove]

Re: Destined to lose?

It seems like there are franchises that you are destined to do bad in (at least in the first season) I'm a Mets fan and some times Ruben Tejada has a breakout year and hits over 300, and sometimes NO ONE can hit over 260. I understand it shouldn't just predetermine stats, but it's a little aggravating seeing David Wright as an All star in one Franchise and then see him Jason Bay status in another.

[THESHAMISASHAME]

Re: Destined to lose?

It seems like there are franchises that you are destined to do bad in (at least in the first season) I'm a Mets fan and some times Ruben Tejada has a breakout year and hits over 300, and sometimes NO ONE can hit over 260. I understand it shouldn't just predetermine stats, but it's a little aggravating seeing David Wright as an All star in one Franchise and then see him Jason Bay status in another.

Funny you mention this as in years past before Post Season mode I would sim seasons to Playoffs and I cant tell you how many times the worst teams in the majors would make the playoffs or win their division so can anyone explain how that was possible as the game is stat based because if you played as these teams you normally would get killed ?

That always confused me so thanks for any thoughts on this

[Bobhead]

Re: Destined to lose?

It seems like there are franchises that you are destined to do bad in (at least in the first season) I'm a Mets fan and some times Ruben Tejada has a breakout year and hits over 300, and sometimes NO ONE can hit over 260. I understand it shouldn't just predetermine stats, but it's a little aggravating seeing David Wright as an All star in one Franchise and then see him Jason Bay status in another.

The irony in this post is that Jason Bay was an All-Star in real life, before declining to "Jason Bay status".

It's baseball.

[satchmykels]

Re: Destined to lose?

I had a game a few weeks ago where I was shutting out the Royals through 7 and they put up 10 in the 8th! It seemed like everything I did that inning was wrong...but I was still having a blast, haha!

[zukes]

Re: Destined to lose?

Destined to lose? Absolutely not. I feel like I control my destiny in every single game. When I'm giving up nonstop hits, I control how long that pitcher stays in the game, and when I bring in a new, more competent pitcher.

For the most part, I control when I get a hit, and how well I'm reading the ball.

I control my pitch selection...

Anytime I lose (and as a Mets fan, I lose A LOT) I'm fully aware of why I lost, and things I didn't do correctly, and other things I should have and could have done to give myself a better chance. There's always an at-bat where I should have capitalized; maybe I didn't take enough pitches/chased too many... too many power swings and not enough contact; being too predictable on the mound; not being aggressive enough, etc etc...

Most of my big home runs come on pitches that I'm fully aware I shouldn't be throwing ("hey let's just throw the first curveball of the game to this Pujols guy, what's the worst that could happen?")

Win or lose, it's literally my own fault, every game.

So I can't relate at all.

I am not sure about everyone else, but I am not saying the game is causing the destined loss (though the phantom error on the breaking up of a no-hitter I described seems sketchy). I just sometimes get the feeling that I can't do anything to win. Just as there are some games you just know that you are going to beat the other team's closer.

[cactusruss]

Re: Destined to lose?

It happened again this morning. I'm up 1 in the 9th, CPU has runners on 1st ans 2nd with two outs. The CPU hit a fly ball to the warning track, Jay Bruce is on his way to make the catch when suddenly he just stops running and goes into a jump up against the wall animation and misses the ball by 5 feet, the ball hits a couple feet short of the wall and both runs score, game over. I didn't hit the jump button, I was running to the spot and if it was inning 1-6 I would've easily made the catch, but the CPU decided it had to win this game I guess.

[Bobhead]

Re: Destined to lose?

I am not sure about everyone else, but I am not saying the game is causing the destined loss (though the phantom error on the breaking up of a no-hitter I described seems sketchy). I just sometimes get the feeling that I can't do anything to win. Just as there are some games you just know that you are going to beat the other team's closer.

Yeah I think that's the consensus in this thread. No one is saying they are being forced to lose.

I'm just saying I always have the option to win. Maybe I just have more optimism than most, lol. But I've had some insane comebacks... Once you've done it once, every game seems possible.

You just need to maintain focus, take pitches, etc...