Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

@DorianP, excellent post and I think you are spot on about the lack of lateral movement, which also hampers the flow of the defense when blocked.

One of my questions for the new consoles is, are they still keeping the branching tech, which allows this max User control but sacrifices realistic fluid movement. If so, then I don't know how much better some of this movement stuff can be on the new consoles.

This is the key right here. If they don't invent some new tech, or just scrap this idea of max user control(which still isn't that much better imo), I'm out. Every player on the field needs longer animations so they transition into each other better. The problem Tiburon had was the offense had longer animations while the defense was lighting fast which made you feel like you were waiting and couldn't make moves. Balance is the key.

[DorianDonP]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

I've read that next gen Madden could be using the new frostbite engine. I have no idea what that really means but maybe there is some insight there into what movement would feel like.

It's a good topic though, one I'm sure EA has talked about. As much as I love NBA 2K, there are plenty of times where I don't feel I have good control over my player, despite the fluid animations. I liked last gen Maddens running animations, but there were also times I didn't feel like I had good control over my players.

There's gotta be a balance out there with physics for every single player, ESPECIALLY the lineman, leading the way. Here's to hoping it's found for next gen.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

@DorianP, excellent post and I think you are spot on about the lack of lateral movement, which also hampers the flow of the defense when blocked.

One of my questions for the new consoles is, are they still keeping the branching tech, which allows this max User control but sacrifices realistic fluid movement. If so, then I don't know how much better some of this movement stuff can be on the new consoles.

That's the big question. Is next gen getting a new engine (because a ton of what we want simply isn't going to happen with this current engine) and if so have they, like rumors have said, been working on it for well over 1 year.

Time will tell.
I'm one who thoroughly enjoyed Madden13 (Game was fun regardless of it's short comings) and will enjoy M25.
That doesn't mean I, or those others who liked it, don't want better.

There were issues with Madden 13, but it was far from a terrible game like many spew on these forums IMO.
Maybe my age but I appreciate where we've come from to now so maybe that's why I feel the way I do.

Bottom line is I'm excited for Madden Next gen and hope EA doesn't let me down.

[m1ke_nyc]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

You have to sacrifice user control for the game to play out smoother. Animations have to play a part. Its all about finding that balance. One of the problems 2K had that they seem to be getting better at is being able to break out of those animations. EA has robotic/stiff animations but it doesnt help that they also lack transitional animations. Damn I need to take myself to bed.

[carvis#15]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

i still can't figure out how next-gen is going to solve these issues? i'm assuming people were just as hyped about transitioning from ps2s/xboxs to 360s and ps3s, but apparently, new technology made this game worse.

...and just out of curiosity. are people expecting next-gen footage for madden and ncaa to be shown for microsoft this month? i doubt EA would do that. people would just say the heck with this year. i'll just wait til next year.

if anything, they'll show one of those "made-up" sizzle trailers like they did when the first iteration of ps3/360's versions were planning on coming out.

i'm sure everyone remembers this video...what a load of BULL***. why didn't they tell us that this video was meant for ps4/720?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxyTUaqm2GU

So you mean to tell me that we can make all of these assesments based off of one generation transition...

[Skyboxer]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

You have to sacrifice user control for the game to play out smoother. Animations have to play a part. Its all about finding that balance. One of the problems 2K had that they seem to be getting better at is being able to break out of those animations. EA has robotic/stiff animations but it doesnt help that they also lack transitional animations. Damn I need to take myself to bed.

I know The Show has gone more and more animation driven only which is why it's a pretty smooth looking game on the field.

With Madden it's appeal is user control and "wow" over the top plays and I see no way around that as EA will never alienate that crowd, ever.

This is coming from someone who is a coach only kind of guy so I wouldn't mind it at all IF they ever give us a real coach only mode.

Better animations and yes better transistion from animation to animation is needed.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

That would be awesome, but that tells you how much work this game needs because I just cant see any of that in the near future. And im talking next 4-5 years. We need major overhauls to the entire movement system. O-line interactions need to be overhauled. Footplanting needs to work for everyplayer all the time not only on cuts. WR/DB interactions need to be added. Ball physics need to be added. I could go on and on then all these things need to be fine tuned to work good before we could even think about "the little things". And I didnt even mention the infinity engine needs a ton of work.

EDIT: EAs problem is they add something to the game but then they take something out. And what they add is always done half you know what lol Look at the footplanting, appears to only work for the ball carrier and only takes effect when he makes a hard cut.

First 70% of what they've taken out should never have been put in so I'm ok with that.
Second we have no idea how long EA has been working on the next gen format so I'll stop short of already condemning us for the next 3-4 years.
Time will tell...

[ghettogeeksta]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

You have to sacrifice user control for the game to play out smoother. Animations have to play a part. Its all about finding that balance. One of the problems 2K had that they seem to be getting better at is being able to break out of those animations. EA has robotic/stiff animations but it doesnt help that they also lack transitional animations. Damn I need to take myself to bed.

I rather have less control and be able to move like NBA 2K players than have more control and have a game that plays like Madden. This was one of the big problems with NBA Live, the graphics were excellent, but people hated how unrealistic the players moved, which was like Madden, stiff and robotic. Unfortunately we don't have a alternative NFL game to flee too.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

I rather have less control and be able to move like NBA 2K players than have more control and have a game that plays like Madden. This was one of the big problems with NBA Live, the graphics were excellent, but people hated how unrealistic the players moved, which was like Madden, stiff and robotic. Unfortunately we don't have a alternative NFL game to flee too.

As long as the animations don't drive my ball carrier 5 yards out of bounds

[rootofalleli]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

I hope EA reads all of these comments and are going into next gen KNOWING that this gameplay looks (and plays) poorly. They need to KNOW that what they are putting out in these trailers isn't good. My worry is that they actually do think what they are hyping in these trailers are okay. I understand they have to sell their game, good or bad, so for everyones sake I hope they really do realize how much of an overhaul everything needs...

I feel like a better person after reading your post! Props for isolating the differences between Maddenball and football.

I know they need to have some big plays in a trailer. But I would have *loved* to see some subtlety. Give me Ray Rice evading a linebacker behind the line of scrimmage. Show me the linebacker beating a block and squaring up like a real football player, trying to get a decent angle for the tackle. Then Little Ray gives him a head fake inside, a juke outside, and the linebacker slips as Rice runs for a first down. Or maybe give us a goal line play with Arian Foster taking a big hit and using one of the new stumble recoveries or dives to get extra yards. Show us someone spinning through contact, not dodging it like Neo in the Matrix. I don't need to see nonstop full-speed moves and animations skipping frames.

If we need to see defenders over-pursuing, it can look a lot better than this. Let's see CJ or Reggie Bush get a bunch of guys going one way then reversing the field. Showcase all that momentum and foot-planting as defenders try to slow down and can't. Better yet, let's see variety - bigger linemen fall over or just run out of the play, linebackers put a hand on the ground to turn around and stay in the play, and the most agile guys head upfield to save a touchdown. If ratings matter and new systems take them into account, EA should showcase the variety on the field. All these changes should affect more than 1-on-1 matchups between a back and a clumsy defender. Maybe they do, but that's not in the video.

God help us if the emphasis on "new defensive weapons" is really "bigger hit stick and more forced fumbles." I'd much rather see some controls that make it easier to get a hand on runner and control him so someone else can force him down. I'd rather see AI that tells a runner to get on the ground before the 2nd and 3rd guys show up to end his season. I don't want to see bigger offensive plays countered with bigger defensive plays.

[DorianDonP]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

I just noticed in this, the defender has a good angle on the runner but when the runner spins, the defender (#94) magically warps behind him for the missed tackle. The animation seemed to cancel out the defenders positioning.

If that's any indication, then positioning and momentum doesn't matter.

There's no way they can talk about the defense being improved if it's going to be handicapped like that.

[rudyjuly2]

I love how the stiff arm is back and how we have all these moves. It does look like zig zag running is gone and the cuts appear as though the feet are making good contact with the ground. I did not see the speed changes you normally see in a real rushing attack. The accelleration back to full speed happens way too fast. The RBs are pulling off super moves and then are still accelerating at full speed almost instantaneously. A lot of times in real football a RB makes the first guy miss but then gets taken down by a couple guys finishing off the play as the RB has slowed down. I don't see that in this video.

[CurryMan]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

if this is the only major addition than this years game is going to suck bgi time!

[TreyIM2]

While I get ppl being upset about things such as running and robotic animations and whatever else brought up that was not included in this Madden, EA never said they improved those so why are ppl harping on such things over and over? Get over it. It's not hattnin this gen, at this point and this highlight real is to focus on run free. Ppl have some sort of OCD, for lack of the word/phrase I was looking for.

That said, I'll say this again, I'm waiting to get this demo/game in my hands to see how it feels. Can't go entirely off these vids.

[Kevin26385]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

I just noticed in this, the defender has a good angle on the runner but when the runner spins, the defender (#94) magically warps behind him for the missed tackle. The animation seemed to cancel out the defenders positioning.

If that's any indication, then positioning and momentum doesn't matter.

There's no way they can talk about the defense being improved if it's going to be handicapped like that.

Maybe I am missing something, but I don't see #94 warping. I think the angle and camera rotation is playing a trick on your eyes. I do think the animation looks off, but it doesn't look like he warped back.