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Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin
I dunno man. It looks like 94 was in position to hit Murray in the chest. I mean look at his feet. His right foot is pretty much at the white chalk but by the time he makes impact, his feet are well behind the chalk as he goes into his missed tackle animation. Maybe the rotating camera plus his dive attempt is throwing me off though. Just seems like this play should have made impact at or beyond the white chalk, with 94 having the momentum and angle to finish that play off.
Last edited by DorianDonP; 05-03-2013, 08:37 AM.Comment
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Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin
Nice discussion guys, I hope the developers are listening.Comment
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Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin
Big FN Deal-Agree with you on the different tackle attempt. That animation probably shouldn't happen when you have an interaction between a running back and a lineman. Doubtful Murray can just throw his shoulder into a big guy like that.
DorianDonP-Appreciate the stills, it definitely looks like #94 should have hit him in the chest especially since Murray is coming out of a spin move and he shouldn't be anywhere near top speed. However, I don't think he was "warping" in the traditional sense.Comment
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Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin
The running back moves I'm fine with them if the stamina bar keeps them in check. I was mainly watching this "new line play" and guess what every block looks the same as last year.
For instance watch this guy in the video. Runningback is 10 to 15 yards down field past him yet he is still in block animation WTF!!!!!!!!!!
I'll tell you the problem with the madden run engine and it has nothing to do with chaining moves together. It is the 1 or 0 (Yes or No) programmed feel to it.
For instance in the scene where the guy is planting his feet and the defender smashes him right in the chest, yet the computer takes over the guy for you and does a spin to dodge the defender. It does not look real, it does not feel real to the user, and it does not simulate a "realistic" football game. Ratings should INFLUENCE things but they should not just randomly do things on their own and create things that are unrealistic.
EA has to remove the huge impact ratings have on players doing things on their own. My running back should not do a crazy spin move if I did not input the command to do so. Now if my runningback has a high spin rating it should cause the defender to whiff more or faster rate of spin or something. He should not randomly just do the move. Now the problem extends even further with the fact that the ratings don't seem to matter for this. You could have a 4th string running back rated in the low 70s or 60s and he would still do this things because the way the engine decides to enter in a 1 and he does a move to make the defender miss or enter a 0 and he gets tackled.
Bottom line it does not feel real.Last edited by Phobia; 05-03-2013, 09:18 AM.Comment
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Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin
Didn't read the whole thread, but for me, the running animations still look horrific. No matter how many moves or control they add, until they fix this, the game is a pass for me.Comment
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Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin
Yeah I think I have seen that in a few videos and my presumption is that it maybe the trade off for not having that instantaneous release as soon as a ball carrier comes by. People should know what I am referring to, the one where as soon as you hit "sprint", defenders disengage or as soon as you choose left/right to go around an engaged blocker, that's the side the defender is released to just as the ball carrier is going by.
I know Bezo and others have been talking about it for years, the lack of engaged player movement and transitional animations so OL/DL interaction can play out properly. It's a safe bet that since the OL/DL interaction wasn't overhauled, just the blocking assignments, along with a few new blocking animations, the stuff in that pic will be in the final build of M25, at least on the current consoles.Comment
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Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin
The RB is 10-15 yards past him? Where? I see Charles about 2-3 yards from him, also watch the Trent Richardson clip, you'll see blockers disengage and run upfieldThe running back moves I'm fine with them if the stamina bar keeps them in check. I was mainly watching this "new line play" and guess what every block looks the same as last year.
For instance watch this guy in the video. Runningback is 10 to 15 yards down field past him yet he is still in block animation WTF!!!!!!!!!!
I'll tell you the problem with the madden run engine and it has nothing to do with chaining moves together. It is the 1 or 0 (Yes or No) programmed feel to it.
For instance in the scene where the guy is planting his feet and the defender smashes him right in the chest, yet the computer takes over the guy for you and does a spin to dodge the defender. It does not look real, it does not feel real to the user, and it does not simulate a "realistic" football game. Ratings should INFLUENCE things but they should not just randomly do things on their own and create things that are unrealistic.
EA has to remove the huge impact ratings have on players doing things on their own. My running back should not do a crazy spin move if I did not input the command to do so. Now if my runningback has a high spin rating it should cause the defender to whiff more or faster rate of spin or something. He should not randomly just do the move. Now the problem extends even further with the fact that the ratings don't seem to matter for this. You could have a 4th string running back rated in the low 70s or 60s and he would still do this things because the way the engine decides to enter in a 1 and he does a move to make the defender miss or enter a 0 and he gets tackled.
Bottom line it does not feel real.Comment
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NOT EXCITED AT ALL!!! THE GAME LOOKS TO FAST AND UNREALISTIC!!! MY QUESTION IS WILL THEY IMPLEMENT FATIGUE IN MADDEN LIKE THEY SAID THEY ARE GOING TO DO IN NCAA THIS YEAR?? I WILL PROBABLY BE KEEPING MY 65$ AGAIN THIS YEAR!Comment
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Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin
Not really accurate to over-analyze and read too much into a trailer imo.
However, i dont know what EA is trying to sell me ... i mean, i'm already able to perform most of these moves in M13 ... what's the difference ? im holding LT or LB + right stick in M25 and ???
Boy i hope they have something else in store.Comment
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Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin
Simfballcritic gave his impressions on this trailer vs what he has played so far. I think everyone needs to play the game for themselves before jumping to conclusions good or bad.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/Jx3W1k1Pum4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>Comment
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Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin
Dorian made a great post about running mechanics and fundamentals compared to this trailer, but I think to make the most fair comparison,we should be using NFL footage not college, the games are played at different speeds. So here are some real examples of the same HB's featured in this trailer.
Jamaal Charles
Spoiler
Ray Rice
Spoiler
Chris Johnson
Spoiler
Doug Martin
Spoiler
Demarco Murray
Spoiler
Trent Richardson
SpoilerLast edited by jpdavis82; 05-03-2013, 10:21 AM.Comment
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Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin
Wilder is a beast and he's gonna be one in NCAA "CAN'T WAIT"Aside from the foot planting and animations, the main problem to me with the running game is the lack of lateral movement. To much of the game is either zig zag or run straight ahead (now coupled with somewhat unrealistic combo moves). Low center of gravity/lateral movement isn't really represented which means the game doesn't capture the line of scrimmage running of many running plays.
Spoiler
Patient running like that is hard to duplicate in the games.
EA is going to show off their highlight reels of trucks, stiff arms, and spin moves, but I'd be much more impressed if they highlighted hitting holes with hard cuts and smaller jukes, instead of so much open field/to the outside stuff. In Madden/NCAA, you don't really have to make any cuts or jukes INTO the hole. I'm interested in seeing more gameplay of the speedburst thing to see how that affects those plays.
Spoiler
That's the bread and butter of the running game.Comment
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Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin
Different definitions?
There are defenders stuck to blockers in the middle of the field while the ball is being run to the outside. There are defenders stuck to blockers in the middle with their back's to the ball while the ball is 15 yards down field.
I'll call it Tecmo blocking instead. 2 players engage and the only outcomes are pancake & break block. Engaged players have no mobility. Blockers should not be stopping defenders from moving laterally nor backwards without holding.
Phobia points out what I'm talking about below.
It's also the defenders further in the background. This throws the timing & spacing of the game way off. Too much room on the outside. Those engaged players should be flowing towards the play, defending their gap. How does a defender contain if he can't move once engaged? How does EA balance this? Easier for defenders to disengage than real life? DBs better tacklers than real life? Something has to be manipulated to keep rushing in control.
If you could see what that defender is doing when the RB does get 15 yards up the field, he'd be doing the same thing those defenders in the background have no business doing. Playing patty cake. Dancing. Whatever you want to call it.Shout out to The Watcher! Where you at bruh?Comment
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Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin
There will be a blog and I think trailer coming out soon about the blocking, we'll see if it shows something different than past Madden's regarding blocking.
Jon Robinson touched on it briefly in his impressions article.
“As everyone knows, interaction between the offensive and defensive lines has been a sore spot, a weak spot for the franchise for years,” said Dickson. “So to handle this, we went out and hired a former NFL offensive lineman named Clint Oldenburg. He played for the Redskins, Jets and Patriots, and he came to us with a wealth of knowledge about what real-world run blocking and pass blocking looks like. He broke down for us how real-world offensive and defensive line interaction really works. This year, we really focused heavily on the running game, so you’ll see these new interactions and variations like pull block steps, reach blocks, zone steps … a lot of new stuff going on with our blocking game. Every single running play in the entire game has been completely redone.”Last edited by jpdavis82; 05-03-2013, 11:00 AM.Comment
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