Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

[kingscrown]

Yeah but that may not be the case anymore.

Oh okay well that's good to know

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

Unless it's for next gen, I believe enhanced blocking interactions is a pipe dream. I believe I had that:



I'm a little put off that they turned around and showed love to the run game again. It was just addressed in M11 and while not perfect, it was improved & serviceable. The expectation from this fan was that pass blocking would get the next re-write. 3 years later, nothing. I don't quite get it.

Locomotion has been addressed in Madden 09, 11 and now 25 with the run free addition. Run blocking assignments were addressed in Madden 11. I think that's easier to program so it makes that back of the box about every other year. Making engaged players move and adding real stunts would require almost starting from scratch because it's the foundation of the game and affects everything else on the field.

The only way the blocking is going to be fixed is if the next console games are built from scratch. If EA decides to port this current version, I think realistic blocking and tiered line play is a pipe dream we will never see. Casuals aren't impressed with them enough to overhaul it in a game cycle.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

Locomotion has been addressed in Madden 09, 11 and now 25 with the run free addition. Run blocking assignments were addressed in Madden 11. I think that's easier to program so it makes that back of the box about every other year. Making engaged players move and adding real stunts would require almost starting from scratch because it's the foundation of the game and affects everything else on the field.

The only way the blocking is going to be fixed is if the next console games are built from scratch. If EA decides to port this current version, I think realistic blocking and tiered line play is a pipe dream we will never see. Casuals aren't impressed with them enough to overhaul it in a game cycle.

I agree and disagree at the same time. I agree we won't get a complete overhaul in blocking with Madden 25, however I do think we will see the closest thing to it with Madden 25. I expect sometime between now and the end of June, to see some really neat stuff that Clint Oldenburg has been working furiously on every day since Madden 25 development began(read the article/bio I posted today to learn more http://www.operationsports.com/forum...olernburg.html ). I am really excited about what he's doing and can't wait to see it in gameplay action.

[UMhester04]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

I agree and disagree at the same time. I agree we won't get a complete overhaul in blocking with Madden 25, however I do think we will see the closest thing to it with Madden 25. I expect sometime between now and the end of June, to see some really neat stuff that Clint Oldenburg has been working furiously on every day since Madden 25 development began(read the article/bio I posted today to learn more http://www.operationsports.com/forum...olernburg.html ). I am really excited about what he's doing and can't wait to see it in gameplay action.

I can get down with this, it's honestly what I'm expecting as well. JP sometimes I brush off your posts cause it comes off that you just defend the game no matter what, but I kinda like that you look at the glass half-full. I try to do this a lot as well but i've come to the point where I know im not going to be satisfied until EA makes the running as realistic as possible.

They are going in the right direction with this run free, in fact when I saw they were adding foot planting in I gave a fist pump to myself lol, but that is just one part of the problem.

They need to fix how the defense reacts, as well as run blocking.

Next is pass blocking and the QB throws that are either right on the money or off target directly towards a defender.

I rambled but my point is I like that you try to be positive and I will join you in this attitude once these gameplay issues are fixed. For now, I will have to side with guys like Phobia, Sage, Tre, Rgiles, etc. Im sure they all want to be "glass half full" guys too, but we just need to see results now after a wasted generation of football games.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

I rambled but my point is I like that you try to be positive and I will join you in this attitude once these gameplay issues are fixed. For now, I will have to side with guys like Phobia, Sage, Tre, Rgiles, etc. Im sure they all want to be "glass half full" guys too, but we just need to see results now after a wasted generation of football games.

Yeah I used to be a half full guy when it came to Madden, but this whole gen has soured me. I can't be mad over the exclusive deal, but I can be mad @ Tiburon for constantly making me wish I had another NFL game to play. Now Tiburon is guilty until proven innocent. Next gen is their chance to change my perspective.

[SteelerSpartan]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

Still looks pretty stiff and blocky For a year when they said they worked on the transitional animations

As some others have noted, Im worried about the Defensive AI. I want to see the new pursuit angles and the defense attacking the ball carrier as a dynamic unit

There is far too much one on one twitch so far for me in these trailers

Maybe the stamina bar will ease some of those worries come E3 when we get to see some raw gameplay, but given the past I don't have a lot of faith

Last year they were happy to state that they eliminated the Roll'N Chuck and as soon as some gameplay got out, Christian freaking Ponder was throwing 70 yard ropes off his back foot, that even Brett Favre would have trouble doing in his dreams

I worry that they're still taking the Online Shooter Crowd approach where they want to level the playing field by enhancing the players who get user'd. You shouldn't just be able to take any team in madden and instantly dominate because all the players/offenses/defenses react in the same manner

***Do not want to start an Vs Thread***

But I wish Madden had the depth of NBA 2k in this sense. I run with the Bulls in that game and have put in some time to learn their Plays, Signature Jump Shot Timing, Dribbling Abilities, Hot Spots on the Floor, and to monitor their stamina

When I switch to another team its really jarring. Theres a big difference in how well I can operate another teams strengths and manage their weaknesses.

Another example I could give would be for any lovers of Forza or GT. You can't just take an American muscle car and make it turn/accelerate/decelerate like a drift machine

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

I agree and disagree at the same time. I agree we won't get a complete overhaul in blocking with Madden 25, however I do think we will see the closest thing to it with Madden 25. I expect sometime between now and the end of June, to see some really neat stuff that Clint Oldenburg has been working furiously on every day since Madden 25 development began(read the article/bio I posted today to learn more http://www.operationsports.com/forum...olernburg.html ). I am really excited about what he's doing and can't wait to see it in gameplay action.

I can't share your optimism. While Clint is an offensive lineman he doen't have a long track record with programming. I also trust my eyes waaaaayyy more than EA's words and this video shows the old blocking animations.

If the engaged players are not programmed to move, if the olineman continue to block one on one when the defense uses a 2 man rush nothing fundmamentally changes in the game or with online strategies.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

Just got a chance to watch the vid as my work comp GPU might as well be nonexistent. Didn't want to comment on anything in the vid until I saw it to be fair. After having seen it... oh boy lol.

Don't have much more to add other than what has already been said. It is amazing to me though, that I knew EXACTLY what the video would look like before even seeing it. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Run Free is a great concept. I have long complained that the special moves were so terrible in Madden, that it encouraged people to use zig zagging, because it was just much more effective. I'm all for getting a more free style of running, because you want to be able to pull off those highlight moments. What is clear to everyone, except, perhaps, Tiburon, is that it is absolutely pointless to worry about the special moves when the rest of the animation, locomotion, and physics with respect to running (weight, momentum, balance, etc) remain in the utter state of disrepair that they are currently in.

For all the change that they have tried to effect over the last 3yrs, this game is SO far away from being where it needs to be, that it deeply saddens me. I can't even muster the strength to get angry anymore. Many people defend them by saying that they are doing the best that they can. I agree with that 1000%, and for me, that is the part that saddens me most.

They don't get it. You can believe that they get it now if you want, but I don't. I don't think that next gen will make much difference to be honest. I hope it will, but I seriously doubt it. This isn't the first gen that Madden was ever developed on. Madden has changed very little over the years, and I'm not just talking about the PS3 and 360 iterations.

I could make a list the size of this forum of things that are the same, but that would take too long. The bottom line is that Madden shares a lot in common with Call of Duty. The game is very popular right now and despite the many little changes that they make to the game every year, it remains popular, because despite all those little changes, you can still jump into a game of the newest version and instantly feel at home. It's like throwing on an old sweatshirt. The formula works. It's popular, so don't change it much and it will remain just as popular, until the customers get tired of it. Hasn't happened yet, but there is no doubt that it will. That is what we are seeing with Madden. The game has stayed the same due to its popularity and has remained popular, until it isn't. Not like it was. Not by a long shot.

This is the part where posters chime in with the requisite, "but they know that now, and that's why they are changing." That's almost correct. They know that now and they are TRYING to change, but that's not the same thing. They had a vision that resonated with fans and made Madden the most popular sports videogame, and one of the most popular videogames period, until it wasn't. There is no guarantee that they know how to do anything else than what they have already done, or that even if they do, that it will be anymore enjoyable than what they did before. I'm firmly entrenched in the camp of doubt.

Looking back, with my nostalgia glasses put away on top of the nightstand, I see what Madden is not, and never was, and I hold myself culpable for the state that Madden is in. As hard as it may be to believe, though I have LONG been a Madden critic, and have been under no illusions of what was wrong with the title and the team responsible for making it, I was a glass half full optimist. Can't do it anymore.

I think Dennis Green put it best. "They are who we thought they were, and we let em off the hook."

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

Agree with the sentiment, LT, and last year I regretted buying Madden. Came out of the 360 in early November and never saw a return.

The thing is, I can't control the purchases of 5 millon other people, which you already alluded to.

[Trick13]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

One thing I hope the address is how much momentum you lose performing the moves. M13 had it wrong, way to slow through the animations and no variance between players at all. Ratings, like AGI and ACC plus the move rating should determine variable losses in momentum. Watching some of the highlight vids really shows how in the NFL players get in ant out of some of those moves way more quickly than M13 allows you to replicate.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

Just posted this question in another thread and wanting to ask it here too.

This maybe completely wrong but the more I look at the way people say the players a re "hunched over", the more I start wondering how much this have to do with sharing the tech (ANT) from games like NHL, FIFA and even NBA Live. Maybe the issue is, in those games, especially NHL, the player are often inherently hunched over in motion due to the nature of the sport but not football. They are carrying the football so they don't need to hunch over to interact or make moves with it, like the other EA sports games do to interact with their respective ball/puck.

Could this be the reason behind the hunched over running in Madden, they need a separate animation tool for running in the football game?

[huskerwr38]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

I think the intend of the video is to show off the moves which explains the poor defense. But the fact that the RBs are able to string together and pull off all of these moves is disappointing. Ball carriers don't hop over a player instantly bust through a tackle with then spin and juke through a defense while barely touching the ground. There is so much sliding go on, the players are moving forward without touching the ground it just looks awful. I haven't even touched the animations. Just too arcade.

[hanzsomehanz]

While you are there, BFD, what about the lack of impact to the field on footplants? Skating? How can you get a good dig into the field using hockey simulations? Decleaters? The collition aftermaths from last year were like ones you would see in NHL, now even moreso.

I cannot fathom how we could get the proper simulation using platforms from multiple sports.

Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk 2

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

While you are there, BFD, what about the lack of impact to the field on footplants? Skating? How can you get a good dig into the field using hockey simulations? Decleaters? The collition aftermaths from last year were like ones you would see in NHL, now even moreso.

I cannot fathom how we could get the proper simulation using platforms from multiple sports.

Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk 2

I understand exactly what you are saying and getting lifted off your feet and gliding definitely makes more sense in a hockey game. Then the question becomes, how is FIFA able to maintain footplanting and maybe that's what they did this year, shared more from FIFA than NHL.

Man who the hell knows at this point, lol, sure would be nice to just have a football game that immerses my enough to overlook this stuff. Tiburon makes me want to go back to school at 37 to get a degree in coding, game design or whatever, just to get a job there to find out WTF is the hold up on a complete football game.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Video - Playbook: Run Free with Trey Wingo and Doug Martin

I understand exactly what you are saying and getting lifted off your feet and gliding definitely makes more sense in a hockey game. Then the question becomes, how is FIFA able to maintain footplanting and maybe that's what they did this year, shared more from FIFA than NHL.

Man who the hell knows at this point, lol, sure would be nice to just have a football game that immerses my enough to overlook this stuff. Tiburon makes me want to go back to school at 37 to get a degree in coding, game design or whatever, just to get a job there to find out WTF is the hold up on a complete football game.

The guys from TSS are convinced that once we go to next gen that the devs will fix this issue and the main problem is the engine, not the devs focus, but an even bigger issue is the "suits" and AJ Dembroski suggested that they may purposefully be holding the game back. IF that is the case then hopefully the new CEO replacing John Ricitello will stop that junk from now on.