Chris Sale

[Cavicchi]

I looked at his pitches and like how in the world did they come up with them?!

Fastball at 97--Broo9ks Baseball has 93 (2012).

Slider at 96--Brooks Baseball has 79 (2012).

Changeup at 92--Brooks Baseball has 83 (2012).

Slurve at 84--Brooks Baseball has a 2-seam fastball (shown as sinker) at 90 (2012).

Four pitches and such a huge difference. A slider at 96!

[wudl83]

Re: Chris Sale

If you are talking about 2k13 (which I don't have, I am a pc user and can only answer it from the 2k12 perspective) I think it has something to do with how pitch ratings are calculated.

I think they tried to give Sale very strong ratings and strong pitches. To get a high rated pitch it isn't enough to give the pitch high control and movement, in many cases the pitch also needs to be fast to get a high rating.

E.g. to get a FB which is rated 90 it is not enough to give it a speed of 90 and control of 99 and movement of 99. This pitch won't be rated in the upper 90s because of how the pitch rating is calculated.

Other pitches like curves are highly dependent on movement, so often those pitches get too much movement compared to reality.

Next thing is that having a variety of pitches and especially not only one FB (but maybe even a 4 seamer, a 2 seamer and even a cutter besides 2 off speed pitches like a curve and a slider, too) makes the pitcher's rating higher.

And the higher the pitch rating the higher the pitcher's overall rating. So if 2k wants someone to have a high pitcher's overall rating they somehow got to trick. Because they tricked themselves with awkward rating calculation.

Know what I mean?

[Cavicchi]

Re: Chris Sale

If you are talking about 2k13 (which I don't have, I am a pc user and can only answer it from the 2k12 perspective) I think it has something to do with how pitch ratings are calculated.

I think they tried to give Sale very strong ratings and strong pitches. To get a high rated pitch it isn't enough to give the pitch high control and movement, in many cases the pitch also needs to be fast to get a high rating.

E.g. to get a FB which is rated 90 it is not enough to give it a speed of 90 and control of 99 and movement of 99. This pitch won't be rated in the upper 90s because of how the pitch rating is calculated.

Other pitches like curves are highly dependent on movement, so often those pitches get too much movement compared to reality.

Next thing is that having a variety of pitches and especially not only one FB (but maybe even a 4 seamer, a 2 seamer and even a cutter besides 2 off speed pitches like a curve and a slider, too) makes the pitcher's rating higher.

And the higher the pitch rating the higher the pitcher's overall rating. So if 2k wants someone to have a high pitcher's overall rating they somehow got to trick. Because they tricked themselves with awkward rating calculation.

Know what I mean?

So basically what you're saying is they make it up to reflect what they believe the rating should be. By the way, I was talking 2k12 for xbox.

[wudl83]

Re: Chris Sale

Yap that's what I was thinking. You will realize that a bunch of (especially relief) pitcher's even will get more pitches ingame than they actually throw in reality. Because more pitches means higher rating. So even when an elite pitcher like let's say Kimbrel only throws two pitches in reality (4 seamer and slider) I bet he got at least 3 pitches in the game. I noticed that numerous times. Some pitcher's throw way harder ingame than they do in reality, too. Like you noticed with Chris Sale. While others who are hard throwers in reality throw way too slow ingame compared to reality.
The thing is that not only the pitcher's have such strange ratings. It goes on with fielders/batters. Some elite batters which are bad fielders in reality often get way too high fielding ratings because the higher the fielding rating the higher the ingame OVR. And some guys have way too much power and AVG ingame for the same OVR reason.
Some guys always tend to argue against it and defend 2k. But IMO the ratings of 2k are crap and not based on real life performance but mainly on OVR. There are tons of players on 2k's roster which have way too low contact ratings compared to their real AVG they are hitting. And others get way too high contact rating because they are allstars...

[Cavicchi]

Re: Chris Sale

Yap that's what I was thinking. You will realize that a bunch of (especially relief) pitcher's even will get more pitches ingame than they actually throw in reality. Because more pitches means higher rating. So even when an elite pitcher like let's say Kimbrel only throws two pitches in reality (4 seamer and slider) I bet he got at least 3 pitches in the game. I noticed that numerous times. Some pitcher's throw way harder ingame than they do in reality, too. Like you noticed with Chris Sale. While others who are hard throwers in reality throw way too slow ingame compared to reality.
The thing is that not only the pitcher's have such strange ratings. It goes on with fielders/batters. Some elite batters which are bad fielders in reality often get way too high fielding ratings because the higher the fielding rating the higher the ingame OVR. And some guys have way too much power and AVG ingame for the same OVR reason.
Some guys always tend to argue against it and defend 2k. But IMO the ratings of 2k are crap and not based on real life performance but mainly on OVR. There are tons of players on 2k's roster which have way too low contact ratings compared to their real AVG they are hitting. And others get way too high contact rating because they are allstars...

KImbrel's example while good doesn't come close to what Kenley Jansen has: five pitches when in reality he throws two.

I don't know how one can defend the ratings in this game, I certainly couldn't.

[wudl83]

Re: Chris Sale

KImbrel's example while good doesn't come close to what Kenley Jansen has: five pitches when in reality he throws two.

I don't know how one can defend the ratings in this game, I certainly couldn't.

Nice observation. That is a perfect example for what I was talking about.

For someone who wants to have as much realism as possible the 2k rating system is crap.

As I said hitting ratings are the same. Some guys mentioned that 2k would allegedly have a clear system where they weight different years different. E.g. 2011 is counted 3 times, 2010 2 times, 2009 1 time and then you sum it up and divide it by 6. Complete bogus argument. I tried to recalculate it and came up with a lot of different numbers...

Most player's ratings step out of line.

[Cavicchi]

Re: Chris Sale

If you want to take the time, you could correct (make more accurate) the pitchers in this game better than any other baseball game, because you can reduce pitch types to just 2. Now that won't make it play better than every other baseball game, just make pitchers throw what they really do, regarding pitch types and speed.

[wudl83]

Re: Chris Sale

If you want to take the time, you could correct (make more accurate) the pitchers in this game better than any other baseball game, because you can reduce pitch types to just 2. Now that won't make it play better than every other baseball game, just make pitchers throw what they really do, regarding pitch types and speed.

Do you mean me or are you speaking in general?

[Cavicchi]

Re: Chris Sale

Do you mean me or are you speaking in general?

In general, like anyone could, if they wanted to do it.

[daltros]

Re: Chris Sale

Well, you guys are right. I've only seen a FEW players' ratings in 2k that I thought were on the spot, but most of the time, ESPECIALLY with pitchers, it is not even close to the real deal. I do not know how you could defend these ratings, for the most part.

[wudl83]

Re: Chris Sale

Well, you guys are right. I've only seen a FEW players' ratings in 2k that I thought were on the spot, but most of the time, ESPECIALLY with pitchers, it is not even close to the real deal. I do not know how you could defend these ratings, for the most part.

I don't know either.

Of course I can not prove it but I would not wonder when 2k has or had no clear system behind the ratings. Because of that everything looks so random.

[will1822]

Re: Chris Sale

I know you guys were talking 2K12, but in 2K13 I have find Chris Sale to very accurate. Peavy also, but the thing with Peavy is like he throws every fastball. 4 seam, 2 Seam, Cutter Sinker. But they dont have him with the 2seamer. Probably because he would have more than 5 pitches which is the limitation, as he also mixes in a few curves and alot of sliders in reality.

[Cavicchi]

Re: Chris Sale

I know you guys were talking 2K12, but in 2K13 I have find Chris Sale to very accurate. Peavy also, but the thing with Peavy is like he throws every fastball. 4 seam, 2 Seam, Cutter Sinker. But they dont have him with the 2seamer. Probably because he would have more than 5 pitches which is the limitation, as he also mixes in a few curves and alot of sliders in reality.

The two-seam fastball is his "sinker." Chris Sale is accurate in 13? What are the speeds for his pitch types?

[will1822]

Re: Chris Sale

Peavy throws a traditional 2seam fastball. Watched him pitch tonight. Sale's FB on the game caps at 94 and during gameplay it's usually around 91-92, ocassionally at 93-94. In reality his is capable of hitting 96-97 whenever he wants, but toned down his velocity about middway through last year, his first as a full time starter. His Slurve speed is very accurate at 73mph.

[Cavicchi]

Re: Chris Sale

Peavy throws a traditional 2seam fastball. Watched him pitch tonight. Sale's FB on the game caps at 94 and during gameplay it's usually around 91-92, ocassionally at 93-94. In reality his is capable of hitting 96-97 whenever he wants, but toned down his velocity about middway through last year, his first as a full time starter. His Slurve speed is very accurate at 73mph.

According to Brooks Baseball for 2012, Sale throws a 4-seam FB on average at 93 mph, 2-seam FB at 90, change at 83 and slider at 79.