Madden NFL 25 - How To Stop The Read Option (MyMaddenPad)

[hanzsomehanz]

I think this is a necessary counter point to read option plays. Replicates being the coach and saying to your guys at certain positions "your job is to make the opponents quit running that garbage college crap by beating the ever loving heck out of their QB every chance they give you!!!"

It is abhorrent in the sense that it is done in the heat of the moment as if you have a devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other: the coach on the sideline or general in the fog of war, neither one has this immediate (real-time) command over displine.

It does not simulate the true to life playcalling strategy - it merely circumvents the decision making tree by chopping off nuanced branches.

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[jeffmanqb3]

Re: Madden NFL 25 - How To Stop The Read Option (MyMaddenPad)

Jeff, ratings distinguish discipline.

The QBs PA ability and offensive success/prowess in the run game will have an influence over your edge contain guy(s). On Defense it is your play recognition, awareness and pursuit.

It is not a foolproof strategy either way: the offense is also given a visual aide to help identify the reads in defense that signal when to hold on and when to let go.

I am not naive to understanding why they have given the offense and defense this ability but it is damn near spoon-feeding.

Why even have PRC? The ability to recognize and decipher deception and stay disciplined, if it can be so easily overriden. There is a recovery chance in the read option. If you fall for the bait you can still recover with pursuit or safety help - you have ten teammates.

I cannot fathom the sudden hand flailing when a mission fails.

In my experience, I will highlight coverage on the RB and put edge contain on the DEs or 34 edge rush LBs. I can also user the Safety. Is this plan of attack successful all the time? No, and that is as it should be.

I am aware this mechanism is not fool proof and defenders should still err but if the motions slowly develop well then it becomes a mini battle on both sides, kind of like a rock-papers-sissors match: this is not Football strategy.

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I think we all agree that the new system should not result in perfect reads by defender everytime. However, I do not think the system puts training wheels on the defense. I should be able to tell my end to stay at home when he correctly reads the play. That is normal football strategy. Because I always play inside or middle linebacker I cannot use that strategy on current games.

[The_Rick_14]

Re: Madden NFL 25 - How To Stop The Read Option (MyMaddenPad)

It is abhorrent in the sense that it is done in the heat of the moment as if you have a devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other: the coach on the sideline or general in the fog of war, neither one has this immediate (real-time) command over displine.

It does not simulate the true to life playcalling strategy - it merely circumvents the decision making tree by chopping off nuanced branches.

Where is real-time coming from? It's a pre-play assignment key not once the ball has been snapped. Granted, I don't disagree that it may be better during play calling, but being pre-play allows you to have different strategies for different formations which could be very true to life.

[hanzsomehanz]

Where is real-time coming from? It's a pre-play assignment key not once the ball has been snapped.

I stand corrected. Thanks Rick

Much ado about nothing.

Sorry guys lol

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[Trick13]

Re: Madden NFL 25 - How To Stop The Read Option (MyMaddenPad)

It is abhorrent in the sense that it is done in the heat of the moment as if you have a devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other: the coach on the sideline or general in the fog of war, neither one has this immediate (real-time) command over displine.

It does not simulate the true to life playcalling strategy - it merely circumvents the decision making tree by chopping off nuanced branches.

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Did not seem to affect the Ravens in the SB vs Kap. They hit him every time, forced him to give up the ball every time for 3 1/2 qtrs. I get where you are coming from, but I watched the SB and saw shades of Tampa Bay vs Vick when he was on the Falcons - beat him into submission over and over - Read Option will not be as successful this year in general - because if you put your QB in that situation, smart football says go blast him every time, the RB can have his yards but your QB is not beating me with his feet.

Now, ratings should matter in this, AWR or PRC or some combo should determine the discipline which a player accepts the "coaching" of the "hot route". 20 AWR/PRC guys should be darn near useless if not manually controlled and even then it should be a battle to get them to be effective. I have often wondered why AWR isn't used as a modifier or "drag" effect on other ratings...

[hanzsomehanz]

Now, ratings should matter in this, AWR or PRC or some combo should determine the discipline which a player accepts the "coaching" of the "hot route".

I figured this would remain a point of concern and majority would agree that the hot route should not be *foolproof.

Remember, the option is bait like the PA and like the PA you may command the D to respect pass but some players may still bite on the **fake handoff.

Player: "Coach, I swear it looked like he handed that ish off!"

Coach: "I know, I know, we were fooled too - I think his own sideline was fooled. "

Coach: "I really need you to keep your containment and take your eyes off the ball."

*Containment is part of special teams too.

**A player still needs to be susceptible to deception and ratings plus prowess should determine the triggers on both sides. EA gave these QBs a PA rating for a reason albeit RGIII was given one of the worst per this article below.

http://mymaddenpad.com/2013/05/10/ma...action-rating/

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[Trick13]

Re: Madden NFL 25 - How To Stop The Read Option (MyMaddenPad)

I figured this would remain a point of concern and majority would agree that the hot route should not be *foolproof.

Remember, the option is bait like the PA and like the PA you may command the D to respect pass but some players may still bite on the **fake handoff.

Player: "Coach, I swear it looked like he handed that ish off!"

Coach: "I know, I know, we were fooled too - I think his own sideline was fooled. "

Coach: "I really need you to keep your containment and take your eyes off the ball."

*Containment is part of special teams too.

**A player still needs to be susceptible to deception and ratings plus prowess should determine the triggers on both sides. EA gave these QBs a PA rating for a reason albeit RGIII was given one of the worst per this article below.

http://mymaddenpad.com/2013/05/10/ma...action-rating/

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Agreed.

RG3's crap rating in PA - egregious for sure - is due to how over the top the "physical" attributes calculate into OVR. If you take RG3 and dump his SAC,MAC,DAC,PA, and throw on run down to 70 - he is still an 81 OVR - go one further and drop his THP to 80 (pretty bad) and he is still rated a 76 OVR (has 81 AWR in this roster I used and was a 94 OVR before adjustments I mentioned)

EA absolutely must reduce the impact of speed/AGI/ACC on OVR across the board. It should be variable to a degree based on position and to an extent on "scheme", but even RBs are rated too high OVR based on speed/agility/acceleration.

Chris Johnson, by dropping his juke/spin/truck/carry/elusiveness/BC vision/ down to 70 leaves him as a 74 OVR - sorry but a player with no higher than 70 in all those categories at RB should be no higher OVR than a 70...

[infemous]

Re: Madden NFL 25 - How To Stop The Read Option (MyMaddenPad)

I would really recommend people reading Shopmaster's answers in the comment section of this article.

I need to reply to Shopmaster's excellent response but am just heading off somewhere, wish I checked it earlier!

If someone could post them in here so that everyone can see it'd be a great topic of discussion and something that will please a lot of Madden gamers... At least in the sense that we have someone we can trust in Shopmaster asking the important questions.

Again, I'd like to give a massive thank you to Shopmaster for his excellent work.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 25 - How To Stop The Read Option (MyMaddenPad)

I would really recommend people reading Shopmaster's answers in the comment section of this article.

I need to reply to Shopmaster's excellent response but am just heading off somewhere, wish I checked it earlier!

If someone could post them in here so that everyone can see it'd be a great topic of discussion and something that will please a lot of Madden gamers... At least in the sense that we have someone we can trust in Shopmaster asking the important questions.

Again, I'd like to give a massive thank you to Shopmaster for his excellent work.

Most definitely, these are the comments that stood out to me.

Shopmaster: Is there progressive fatigue in the game, because I ran the ball 40+ times and my fatigue meter was the same amount as it was at the beginning of the game as it was in the 4th qtr. How does fatigue meter work, because maybe it is working like it's supposed to. I also went into practice mode (offense only) and put the ball on the 1. I did a dive and ran from one endzone to the other and then I ran from one endzone to the other holding the sprint button. The fatigue meter in my opinion wasn't that much difference by the time I got to the endzone both time. Clearing holding the sprint button drained more, but not by that much. I was using Arian Foster. I think there should be more fatigue drainage when holding sprint and it should run out before you run 100 yards, no matter who it is.

Rex:

Let’s start with an important distinction. Although fatigue and stamina are linked, they are two separate systems. The stamina meter (that’s what you see in game on the player ring, this is NOT fatigue) is more about how
much energy you expend on a given play. This impacts your overall fatigue, which is the ‘over the course of the game’ energy system that is tied to substitutions, injuries, fumble chances, etc. The biggest hits to your fatigue meter are performing precision moves and holding down the acceleration burst button. There is an important note here, as once you reach 100% speed, the acceleration burst action doesn’t do anything for you other than reduce your stamina. If you are low stamina (in the red on the meter) on a given play, you will actually play slower/sloppier evasion move animations and your top speed will go down slightly.

So fatigue is tied to injuries and fumbles but constantly using your stamina affects your fatigue.


Chris
Great news shop, one question though regarding the qb running in general. Last year people could run qb's straight into a linebacker with the only risk/reward factor being a simple tackle. When has ANY qb in NFL history ran towards a linebacker heads up in a RB style and not been punished for it? Like when Ngata made RG3 pay for not going out of bounds last year, if you do that in Madden 13 not only will Ngata not crush him or make him fumble but he might even catch a stiff arm/shrug off type of animation. If you are the QB and you choose to run and do not slide when embracing contact, rather its a DB running full steam into you or a LB, you should face the consequences. If not why would any QB ever slide in real life knowing they can run directly into a full steamed defender and shrug him off? When Vick doesn't get down what happens? How about RG3? Biggest part for defense against the option is putting that fear in the QB's mind.


Shopmaster Mod Chris • 18 hours ago −
If funny you ask that. When I visited Austin to play in May I ran the Pistol Offense exclusively and ran with RG3 15 times and he did not fumble once. I sent an email to Rex voicing the same concern. People should be forced to slide and there should be immediate ramifications if you don't. No way I should have gotten hit 15 times and not 1 single fumble. Here was Rex's reply:

This has recently been tuned to provide a bigger penalty for
QB’s who don’t slide when running with the football. Fumble chances are there,
but injuries are the true risk here. I strongly recommend playing close
attention to your QB’s overall fatigue before you take off running every play,
as losing a starting QB is a heavy price to pay for forgetting to
slide.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 25 - How To Stop The Read Option (MyMaddenPad)

Most definitely, these are the comments that stood out to me.



Chris
Great news shop, one question though regarding the qb running in general. Last year people could run qb's straight into a linebacker with the only risk/reward factor being a simple tackle. When has ANY qb in NFL history ran towards a linebacker heads up in a RB style and not been punished for it? Like when Ngata made RG3 pay for not going out of bounds last year, if you do that in Madden 13 not only will Ngata not crush him or make him fumble but he might even catch a stiff arm/shrug off type of animation. If you are the QB and you choose to run and do not slide when embracing contact, rather its a DB running full steam into you or a LB, you should face the consequences. If not why would any QB ever slide in real life knowing they can run directly into a full steamed defender and shrug him off? When Vick doesn't get down what happens? How about RG3? Biggest part for defense against the option is putting that fear in the QB's mind.


Shopmaster Mod Chris • 18 hours ago −
If funny you ask that. When I visited Austin to play in May I ran the Pistol Offense exclusively and ran with RG3 15 times and he did not fumble once. I sent an email to Rex voicing the same concern. People should be forced to slide and there should be immediate ramifications if you don't. No way I should have gotten hit 15 times and not 1 single fumble. Here was Rex's reply:

This has recently been tuned to provide a bigger penalty for
QB’s who don’t slide when running with the football. Fumble chances are there,
but injuries are the true risk here. I strongly recommend playing close
attention to your QB’s overall fatigue before you take off running every play,
as losing a starting QB is a heavy price to pay for forgetting to
slide.

I am so glad to read Rex's response in the bold, in spite of Shop's error about fumbles versus injury. Just because RG3 got hit 15 times, shouldn't directly correlate to a fumbles but it should injury, like Rex stated. Like I have been saying forever, fumbles should be about the way the player is carrying the football at the time of the hit and the actual contact the defender has on the football.

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Madden NFL 25 - How To Stop The Read Option (MyMaddenPad)

I really hope the stamina/fatigue is cumulative. That's probably getting a little ahead of myself there though. I can't quite remember how Fight Night did their stamina, but IIRC there was a sort of round stamina and fight stamina and the more you spent yourself longer in the fight, the lower your stamina would be going into each additional rounds. Same thing would apply more so to a season stamina vs. game stamina.

Say you give your back 40 carries in week one where his stamina is at full-capacity, you go into next week and his stamina is at something like 86% or something and he tires quicker and such.

Seen it so many times with guys like Larry Johnson and Shaun Alexander where guys get basically ran into the ground to the point where one year they're absolute studs and two years later they're out of the game.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 25 - How To Stop The Read Option (MyMaddenPad)

I really hope the stamina/fatigue is cumulative. That's probably getting a little ahead of myself there though. I can't quite remember how Fight Night did their stamina, but IIRC there was a sort of round stamina and fight stamina and the more you spent yourself longer in the fight, the lower your stamina would be going into each additional rounds. Same thing would apply more so to a season stamina vs. game stamina.

Say you give your back 40 carries in week one where his stamina is at full-capacity, you go into next week and his stamina is at something like 86% or something and he tires quicker and such.

Seen it so many times with guys like Larry Johnson and Shaun Alexander where guys get basically ran into the ground to the point where one year they're absolute studs and two years later they're out of the game.

Already been confirmed that game to game, week to week cumulative fatigue effects are NOT in NCAA 14. Seems like it's confined to just one game and done.

http://forums.traditionsportsonline.com/threads/ea-sports-ncaa-football-14-gameplay-improvements-what-it-all-means.97433/page-6#post-1352417

I would presume the same is true of M25.

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Madden NFL 25 - How To Stop The Read Option (MyMaddenPad)

Already been confirmed that game to game, week to week cumulative fatigue effects are NOT in NCAA 14. Seems like it's confined to just one game and done.

http://forums.traditionsportsonline.com/threads/ea-sports-ncaa-football-14-gameplay-improvements-what-it-all-means.97433/page-6#post-1352417

I would presume the same is true of M25.

Yeah I'm not expecting it but depending on how it works in game, I think it could be solid. I'm guessing when players are fatigued and perform these "slower/sloppy" moves it will be like NBA Live when you tried to pull a crossover or spinning dribble move with some big guy that would result in some clumsy looking move that usually resulted in a turnover.

[harlemkiid149]

I would assume it would. I just tweeted Shop about this.

There is no read on wildcat plays, the direction of the run is predetermined regardless of how the defense lines up so it would be pointless to use the feature in wildcat plays,nobody runs wildcat plays anymore bcuz the blocking is horrible for whatever reason.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 25 - How To Stop The Read Option (MyMaddenPad)

There is no read on wildcat plays, the direction of the run is predetermined regardless of how the defense lines up so it would be pointless to use the feature in wildcat plays,nobody runs wildcat plays anymore bcuz the blocking is horrible for whatever reason.

The run blocking supposedly will be much improved, so the wildcat may become valuable once again.