Rugby Challenge 2: The Lions Tour Edition Gameplay Videos, Ships June 13th

[MattyEdgeworth]

Re: Rugby Challenge 2: The Lions Tour Edition Gameplay Videos, Ships June 13th

Here's a quote from Milla.



Pretty disappointing really.

To be honest I think that Milla guy is a bit of ****.

And yeah that is very dissapointing, I mean Rugby is a pretty niche sport. A rugby video game even more so, especially one that is more expensive than other games and harder to find. I'd wager that the majority of people buying the game want a sim.

[Krebstar]

Re: Rugby Challenge 2: The Lions Tour Edition Gameplay Videos, Ships June 13th

Something that bothered me in the last game was that many teams played in the same stadium in career mode. Almost all European clubs.

Even if you edited their home stadium, when you went into career, it would use the default.

Is this different?

[Anners]

Re: Rugby Challenge 2: The Lions Tour Edition Gameplay Videos, Ships June 13th

Something that bothered me in the last game was that many teams played in the same stadium in career mode. Almost all European clubs.

Even if you edited their home stadium, when you went into career, it would use the default.

Is this different?

Yep, this is different now, just checked.

[Milla]

Re: Rugby Challenge 2: The Lions Tour Edition Gameplay Videos, Ships June 13th

To be honest I think that Milla guy is a bit of ****.

And yeah that is very dissapointing, I mean Rugby is a pretty niche sport. A rugby video game even more so, especially one that is more expensive than other games and harder to find. I'd wager that the majority of people buying the game want a sim.

I'm not a guy, or a ****.

The section of the rugby gaming market that would buy a sim is a fraction of the whole. It makes bad business sense to reduce an already small possible market.

[Stormyhog]

Re: Rugby Challenge 2: The Lions Tour Edition Gameplay Videos, Ships June 13th

I think people should be thankful to have a rugby game. Sure I want it to be realistic but you also have to make it fun. Even games that say they're sim still have arcade elements so it's not to overly frustrating. I wish the game was available in canada for the PS3 so I could give it a try.

[bad_philanthropy]

Re: Rugby Challenge 2: The Lions Tour Edition Gameplay Videos, Ships June 13th

I'm not a guy, or a ****.

The section of the rugby gaming market that would buy a sim is a fraction of the whole. It makes bad business sense to reduce an already small possible market.

Is it logistically impossible to develop the game with "sim" orientation and simply reduce the more demanding features by default to please both aspects of the market? For example: EA's NHL series is developed as a sim, and out of the box plays more toward the "arcade" end of things. There is an option for those looking for it to switch to "hardcore." I feel like the development of the game as a sim positively serves the more accessible version meant for the every day consumer.

I'd argue purely on the basis of opinion that Ruby Challenge could benefit from a more sim-oriented design in the same way. As it is now, it feels a bit incoherent pairing things like strategies on the d-pad—with which you can set things like line depth, and add the fullback to the backline—with gameplay that doesn't really reflect the value of these strategies. Add a quite well-executed, and deep career mode, and it is out of place when in-match play inadequately differentiates forward and back play. I have a game in which I can manage my squad, have players away on international duty, deal with injuries, select an international squad, all over multiple years, but on the field a lock can fire the ball 20+m with perfect accuracy?

Subjectively, successful sports titles appear to favor sports games developed as sims, but tuned out of the box for a less discerning audience. We can see it with MLB the Show, FIFA, NHL, and even a title like Football Manager finding solid footing in the market, and general praise from gamers and critics. I won't debate the size and popularity of these sports vs. rugby, and the budget the EA games have versus RC, but I think you should give gamers more credit. I understand doing what HES, or whoever does the market research, and supplies metrics about what the market does and does not wan say, but I'd like to see Sidhe have a bit more faith in developing the product they would like to see. If that is what RC is actually doing, then I digress.

Sidhe have done an amazing job in a lot of ways with RC on a shoestring budget, but it feels like there is an element missing. To me that is a bit more attention to the authenticity of the rugby action on the pitch. Regardless of whether the aim is to create a sim or something else, I think the game benefits in either sense from gameplay better resembling real life the union game. I'll continue to support the title because I find it an encouraging framework, and do enjoy actually playing it. I just hope the trajectory of its gameplay in potential future iterations trends toward something deeper.

[Milla]

Re: Rugby Challenge 2: The Lions Tour Edition Gameplay Videos, Ships June 13th

Is it logistically impossible to develop the game with "sim" orientation and simply reduce the more demanding features by default to please both aspects of the market? For example: EA's NHL series is developed as a sim, and out of the box plays more toward the "arcade" end of things. There is an option for those looking for it to switch to "hardcore." I feel like the development of the game as a sim positively serves the more accessible version meant for the every day consumer.

I'd argue purely on the basis of opinion that Ruby Challenge could benefit from a more sim-oriented design in the same way. As it is now, it feels a bit incoherent pairing things like strategies on the d-pad—with which you can set things like line depth, and add the fullback to the backline—with gameplay that doesn't really reflect the value of these strategies. Add a quite well-executed, and deep career mode, and it is out of place when in-match play inadequately differentiates forward and back play. I have a game in which I can manage my squad, have players away on international duty, deal with injuries, select an international squad, all over multiple years, but on the field a lock can fire the ball 20+m with perfect accuracy?

Subjectively, successful sports titles appear to favor sports games developed as sims, but tuned out of the box for a less discerning audience. We can see it with MLB the Show, FIFA, NHL, and even a title like Football Manager finding solid footing in the market, and general praise from gamers and critics. I won't debate the size and popularity of these sports vs. rugby, and the budget the EA games have versus RC, but I think you should give gamers more credit. I understand doing what HES, or whoever does the market research, and supplies metrics about what the market does and does not wan say, but I'd like to see Sidhe have a bit more faith in developing the product they would like to see. If that is what RC is actually doing, then I digress.

Sidhe have done an amazing job in a lot of ways with RC on a shoestring budget, but it feels like there is an element missing. To me that is a bit more attention to the authenticity of the rugby action on the pitch. Regardless of whether the aim is to create a sim or something else, I think the game benefits in either sense from gameplay better resembling real life the union game. I'll continue to support the title because I find it an encouraging framework, and do enjoy actually playing it. I just hope the trajectory of its gameplay in potential future iterations trends toward something deeper.

We just had the budget and time to make one game. And we didn't even get to put in everything we wanted.

No, not impossible, but out of our reach, and outside anything we wanted to attempt. Knowing your scope and sticking to it is important in this industry. A sim of a simpler sport might not be unreasonable, but a rugby sim is always going to be pretty profound, because of the nature of the game. A sim would be a much more formidable and unforgiving genre than what we went for, and then to throw in the arcade version as well? It would be like making two games in one, and probably not doing either genre justice.

[bad_philanthropy]

Re: Rugby Challenge 2: The Lions Tour Edition Gameplay Videos, Ships June 13th

We just had the budget and time to make one game. And we didn't even get to put in everything we wanted.

No, not impossible, but out of our reach, and outside anything we wanted to attempt. Knowing your scope and sticking to it is important in this industry. A sim of a simpler sport might not be unreasonable, but a rugby sim is always going to be pretty profound, because of the nature of the game. A sim would be a much more formidable and unforgiving genre than what we went for, and then to throw in the arcade version as well? It would be like making two games in one, and probably not doing either genre justice.

I can accept that. If RC2 is the direction Sidhe wants to take so be it.

Quick question to other users. Has anyone seen the cpu sub for anything other than an injury?

EDIT: n/m saw the cpu make a sub.

[fearwhatnow]

Re: Rugby Challenge 2: The Lions Tour Edition Gameplay Videos, Ships June 13th

@Milla, Sidhe ofc has every right to make the game as they wish. It's pure business after all. But this quote seems a little bit harsh to me:
"There are people who want a sim. They won't get one from us. We never set out to make one, and don't plan to do so".
Never? RC2 may sell well and Sidhe may find the funds to improve the game and make it more sim-friendly. I feel that your reaction was a punch in the stomach for all those that provide feedback and for 2 years buy the game to support Sidhe.

[MattyEdgeworth]

Re: Rugby Challenge 2: The Lions Tour Edition Gameplay Videos, Ships June 13th

I'm not a guy, or a ****.

The section of the rugby gaming market that would buy a sim is a fraction of the whole. It makes bad business sense to reduce an already small possible market.

Well whatever you are, to me you seem like a ****.

I don't believe that's right either, anyone that I know wants a sim because they all play rugby. Even if it's impossible to go for a pure sim, you could do a better job of it than you have. I appreciate it can be difficult for a small studio but when you have forwards or anyone throwing inch perfect passes from 30-40 yards it is a bit ridiculous. Not to mention all players seem to have glue on their hands and can catch any pass no matter how awkward.

I haven't bought this game, and don't think I will but from the gameplay videos I've watched I can see that those problems have not been addressed.

I'll also say that the excitement for this years game is considerably less after the last effort, which while it wasn't awful didn't really give people(that I know anyway) what they wanted. As well as the fact that so little attention was given to northern hemisphere teams, which was a joke.

[Milla]

Re: Rugby Challenge 2: The Lions Tour Edition Gameplay Videos, Ships June 13th

@Milla, Sidhe ofc has every right to make the game as they wish. It's pure business after all. But this quote seems a little bit harsh to me:
"There are people who want a sim. They won't get one from us. We never set out to make one, and don't plan to do so".
Never? RC2 may sell well and Sidhe may find the funds to improve the game and make it more sim-friendly. I feel that your reaction was a punch in the stomach for all those that provide feedback and for 2 years buy the game to support Sidhe.

Of course we appreciate feedback. We run our own community forum, where I spend hours and hours every week reading criticism and complaint. We'd shut it down if we didn't seek feedback, and value it.

I do apologise if my post felt harsh. We have a 'no bull' policy here at Sidhe. We avoid raising unrealistic expectations and never lie. The truth is that we will not make a rugby sim, and I'm not sure how to put in in any way that you might not consider harsh. It doesn't make good business sense, and we avoid making bad business decisions where we can.

We are at a major cross-roads right now, and we're not even sure if we will make any more console games. We've been working toward being masters of our own destiny for years, and work-for-hire console titles don't entirely work with that goal.

If you'd like to know more my boss, Mario, explains it pretty well in a few of his most recent interviews:

http://nzgamer.com/ps3/features/1187/mario-wynands-on-the-state-of-the-gaming-nation.html

http://www.digitallydownloaded.net/2013/05/sidhe-pikpok-ceo-on-sony-microsoft-and.html

And at the end of this one about Rugby Challenge2:

http://nzgamer.com/ps3/features/1189/all-blacks-rugby-challenge-2-developer-q-a.html/page-3/

Nothing is set in concrete, where rugby and console games are concerned, but we won't be making a sim, which would have a fraction of the market that the more arcadey title has, and this isn't really viable.

[stizz]

Nothing is set in concrete, where rugby and console games are concerned, but we won't be making a sim, which would have a fraction of the market that the more arcadey title has, and this isn't really viable.

Milla, was this found from conducting a survey or personal opinions?

Everyone I've spoken to, sports and non-sports gamers, all had the same opinion that RC was too arcady and would've preferred a more realistic game.

[bad_philanthropy]

Re: Rugby Challenge 2: The Lions Tour Edition Gameplay Videos, Ships June 13th

I'm getting the hang of rucking. It's a bit unbalanced regarding the rate of turnovers still, but I can understand that seeing how most user matches aren't 80 minutes long, and balance is needed for gameplay purposes.

I'm enjoying the game overall, but I still think it could benefit from some light sim design choices. I do hope we get a patch to fix some things, and maybe tune the game up a bit. Other than that it will fill the rugby itch much better than RC1.

[Milla]

Re: Rugby Challenge 2: The Lions Tour Edition Gameplay Videos, Ships June 13th

Milla, was this found from conducting a survey or personal opinions?

Everyone I've spoken to, sports and non-sports gamers, all had the same opinion that RC was too arcady and would've preferred a more realistic game.

This is the experience of years of making rugby and rugby league games, and dealing with the end users. Those who use sports and gaming forums are in fact in the minority of our customers for these titles. Most of our users are much more casual than those we interact with in forums like this and our own.

I'm getting the hang of rucking. It's a bit unbalanced regarding the rate of turnovers still, but I can understand that seeing how most user matches aren't 80 minutes long, and balance is needed for gameplay purposes.

I'm enjoying the game overall, but I still think it could benefit from some light sim design choices. I do hope we get a patch to fix some things, and maybe tune the game up a bit. Other than that it will fill the rugby itch much better than RC1.

If it feels unbalanced have a play with the game-play sliders.

[stizz]

Re: Rugby Challenge 2: The Lions Tour Edition Gameplay Videos, Ships June 13th

This is the experience of years of making rugby and rugby league games, and dealing with the end users. Those who use sports and gaming forums are in fact in the minority of our customers for these titles. Most of our users are much more casual than those we interact with in forums like this and our own.



If it feels unbalanced have a play with the game-play sliders.

Have any of your previous games, been targeted at a sim audience?

If not, how would you know you wouldn't get the same responses if the games were designed to be sim?