What is wrong with defense?

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  • jersez
    MVP
    • Jul 2008
    • 1892

    #1

    What is wrong with defense?

    Feel free to leave your opinion on what needs to be fixed on defense, this is just my opinion. and I know I left a lot of stuff out I can't find my notes at the moment.

    I'm going to breakdown what I feel is wrong with the defense, in three categories. Team defense, off ball defense and on ball defense.

    Team Defense,
    Major Issues- Rotations and Logic.

    The Logic,

    is really bad you'll see your teammates make terrible decisions throughout a game. Constantly being beat on back cuts, even with "defensive pressure" very low and defensive settings on sag off, they'll run right into the defender your controlling or take poor paths if a (off ball)offensive player loses them from a cut or screen, which creates open shots. Double teams, a teammate will decide to take "the long way" to the person I want double team'd. Also you'll see two teammates go with a offensive player using a off ball screen.

    Defensive settings don't seem to work consistently, if I select double on drives, I rarely get the help I was looking for making shading useless. Also when you select focus on stars, they shouldn't be double teaming fullcourt, if that star player is bringing the ball up. Also the transition defense is really disgusting, I mean I've seen the cpu and user opponents throw full court passes because my team simply jogs back and it's nothing you can do to fix that, coaching wise.

    Rotations.
    The rotations could have been included with the logic, but this is such a huge issue It deserves it's own category. Rotations improved a little bit, on the cpu side you'll see big men, sag off to help when you're about to drive, even though the rotation speed for the cpu is very unrealistic it's pretty solid for the most part.

    On the user end it's terrible, big men don't know when to step into the lane to contest shots in the paint, off ball defenders don't know how to help the helper.there is a reason why man to man isn't really played online and why most people play zone(passing being super slow and rotations being super fast also help for zone users)

    Off Ball Defense.
    There isn't any real interaction with off ball players offensive and defensive, there is no struggling to get free or realistic bumping. Deny ball is pretty sad, because it's not very realistic, it's realistic as in the coverage being super tight and trying to deny any passes to that specific player. It's unrealistic like I said earlier there is no interaction it's hard for me to describe but this is what great denying defense looks like But outside of denying defense, fighting through screens needs improvement in being able to actually get through the screen or not. Also being able to swim through and trying to avoid collision with your teammates would be nice for 2k14.

    On ball defense.
    This is the one category I can remember most of my notes from. The biggest issue with off ball defense is that it feels like we're fighting the game every time we defend the ball handler. Let me explain, I defend a crossover and the ball handler does a step back move which throws me out of position even if I guessed he was going to do that, now I have to fight with speed, momentum and the foot planting just to defend the next move. You just feel like you're at a disadvantage at times for playing on ball defense, it shouldn't be easy but I shouldn't feel like I'm being cheated when my opponent scores. It really feels like the game pulls your defender at times and I have no idea why when my defensive assist is at 0.

    I can't remember everything I wrote down, but this is just my opinion and I'm just tired of defense being treated like a step child, the offensive side of the ball has all these new features and improvements, while defensively we get new triggers to use lock on defense, not to mention that the fact that we can't defend those can-animated crossovers. I'm not saying playing lock down defense should be easy. Also if I guess correctly and beat the ball handler there, reward me. Reward me and stop allowing the ball handler continue his path to the basket.
    Last edited by jersez; 06-29-2013, 06:41 PM. Reason: I'm in a rush couldn't fully proofread.
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  • stillfeelme
    MVP
    • Aug 2010
    • 2406

    #2
    Re: What is wrong with defense?

    Rotations

    The rotations are bad they need more options like defensive pre rotations. There are defensive speeds given to the CPU where they don't need to realistically be aware and rotate to help elite players. So they are able to cut down the paint while at the same time in perfect position to defend the perimeter. Basketball is based off helping the helper especially against elite penetrating guards and wings. Most teams lock down the paint by default and give up the long range two with help rotations.
    • We need one option to shade the defense to an elite player side. When a Melo, LeBron isolates off the wing. There is usually one player who is playing zone and shades to the side just to try to eliminate dribble penetration.
    • We need to be in control on how to play the post deny the ball on post ups only. Would be different than deny ball all the time. This is one of the most effective things of how teams chose to defend Melo on post ups.
    On ball defense
    • On ball defense is bad because the dribbler is given free range to do what they want to do. There is little penalty for over dribbling so they have to fix dribbling dribbling interaction/ live ball before on ball defense is fixed. The animations need to be redone right now I can bring a triple team and elite ball handler will dribble through it like I am not even there.
    Zone recovery speed is so rediculous right now that it has to be fixed along with the passing wpeed.

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    • raiderphantom
      MVP
      • Jul 2012
      • 1537

      #3
      Re: What is wrong with defense?

      I'm always controlling all 5 positions as best I can, making sure guys aren't out of position, even if I have to let the ball handler be defended by the CPU for a moment. My biggest problem is the sliding and sticking. I just don't have full control. Still, the rotations are very poor. Another problem I can't shake is the defensive awareness. All defenders should be be between the offensive player and the basket, and any player one pass away should be engaged in the passing lane. I'm tired of seeing top level defenders with their back to the ball giving up easy passes. See your man and see the ball.
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      • Gosens6
        All Star
        • Oct 2007
        • 6098

        #4
        Re: What is wrong with defense?

        Paint defense is my number one problem with this game. If there were any resemblance of contact in the paint, the defense in this game would be a lot better.

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        • jersez
          MVP
          • Jul 2008
          • 1892

          #5
          Re: What is wrong with defense?

          A couple of examples of what I was talking about. <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/dke6AhoaHBU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

          <iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Ijqd6F2CEsk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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          • alabamarob
            MVP
            • Nov 2010
            • 3320

            #6
            Re: What is wrong with defense?

            1. Live ball

            2. Paint contact

            3. Bring back signature dribble

            4. Lower the effectiveness of floating jumpers

            5. Better defensive animations
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            • Chocolate Chip
              Rookie
              • May 2013
              • 351

              #7
              Re: What is wrong with defense?

              the lack of contact in the paint.
              Last edited by Chocolate Chip; 06-29-2013, 10:22 PM.

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              • arimamba
                Rookie
                • Nov 2012
                • 323

                #8
                Re: What is wrong with defense?

                Originally posted by jersez
                Let me explain, I defend a crossover and the ball handler does a step back move which throws me out of position even if I guessed he was going to do that, now I have to fight with speed, momentum and the foot planting just to defend the next move.

                man agree with you and the sad thing is people know this and try to get bumped on purpose so they get that stepback which goes in like 90% of the time
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                • sirjam
                  MVP
                  • Oct 2002
                  • 3535

                  #9
                  Re: What is wrong with defense?

                  speed, momentum and the foot planting. Lack of on offense and defense is the problem.

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                  • Illuminatos94
                    Banned
                    • Jun 2013
                    • 113

                    #10
                    Re: What is wrong with defense?

                    Get rid of the zone defenses. The only one we need is the 2-3 zone.

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                    • yungsta404
                      Pro
                      • Jul 2011
                      • 547

                      #11
                      Re: What is wrong with defense?

                      Lack of Collision, physics, sliding

                      <iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/2nJZ5o60UsQ" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

                      <iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/RzO3-9wxNvc" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

                      <iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/emvdQPJLlYE" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="560"></iframe>

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                      • ERA
                        MVP
                        • Dec 2012
                        • 1579

                        #12
                        I absolutely hate the contact on this game, when you make contact with a defender or someone makes contact with you, both players just glide in the air despite reacting to the collision. To be honest I bet NBA LIVE '03 has better contact than this game.
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                        • thedream2k13
                          MVP
                          • Jan 2013
                          • 1507

                          #13
                          Re: What is wrong with defense?

                          Good Post i want to add the following:

                          Magnetic defense: When playing on ball defense we shouldn't me magnetic connected to the ballhandler. It puts user controlled defenders at horrible disadvantage.Step back jumpers galore. User has control taken away way to often.

                          Under Rim Defense: this is one of the worst things to me. If offensive player gets under the rim its almost automatic layup. Defenders cant draw contact and the animations cancel all defender shot contest. This is a cheesers wet dream

                          Big Man Rotations: CPU controlled bigs are glued to their man instead of helping in the paint far to often. Defensive awareness rating means nothing most of the time.

                          Alley Oop Defense: in 2k11 alley oops were much harder to make all game especially if defender was in the path of the receiver. in 2k13 you can make an alley way to easy even with defenders surrounding the rim. Also alley oop success is way to high by default.

                          Shot Selection: The biggest indicator that paint defense is way to easy is looking at peoples player card shot distribution before a quick match. People basically score around 3% in the post while 60% when driving to the basket. Problem easily seen but it seems 2k wants to keep it like this. In 2k11 the % were alot better due to interior defense contact animations and rotations. NBA live 10 didnt have this problem i must say.

                          To many scoring animations with simplified button taps: 2k put advanced moves to double button taps in 2k13. People can run to paint , double tap X button and get away with a slow motion up and under around 3 defenders and make it with high success. Alot of these animations cancel shot contest awareness.

                          Overall 2k needs to focus on this aspect of the game. The paint D is lackluster the past 4 years and its really making the game less competitive. I found this video Chris Smooth made in 2010 that sums this thread up perfectly

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                          • Slava Medvadenko
                            Rookie
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 409

                            #14
                            Re: What is wrong with defense?

                            There needs to be more of a penalty when the AI drives. It crossovers and spins four or fives times on drives against you because it knows eventually it'll break through. How many times has someone in the NBA changed direction five times on a drive and made a basket? The more the offensive player changes directions, the more likely he should pick up his dribble, get pushed back, or lose the ball. He shouldn't lose the ball as much as in 2k12(that was overkill), but poor ball handlers should lose it after a well timed steal attempt by a bodying-up defender.

                            I'd also like better responsiveness on blocks. No more jumping a full second after you press the button.

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                            • quehouston
                              Cheeseproof.com
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 723

                              #15
                              Re: What is wrong with defense?

                              There's limited control. Just like the OP stated, I feel like I'm trying to defend my man, while the game is fighting my controls. It doesnt matter whether you react correctly to your ball handler, because the game is gonna take over with some irate animation that has no correlation to what you were doing, simply to simulate the differences in ratings between the two engaged players.

                              Another problem is physics at the rim. Sometimes there are no contact animations were there should be, and instead players are slid out of the way, as if the attacking player has some kind of force field around him. Extremely frustrating to watch.
                              Last edited by quehouston; 06-30-2013, 10:31 AM.
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