Spoiler
. The threshold is based on what we used last year on the 25 threshold set, and the increase in 55 face mask is helping some tackling animations to be more wrap versus big hits. The QBA for the CPU at 5 is showing some great pass variety, but also helping the passing percentages. CPU is still forcing the ball into coverage at times as well.
11/16/15 Update:
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Some Updates to get the game a little bit more intense. I felt like it was getting boring heading into the second half. Not sure what was it, but it felt like the passing game was too easy in the later stages of each game. Like the coding was designed to allow the game to open up. I'm fine with that on occasion, but not every game as it had been.
So, researched throughout this thread, and tested some values last night. I want the defense to be ALIVE. I want them to go for strips and gang tackle. I want them to be near the receivers versus just getting beat easily. I know we don't have the best DB/WR interactions, but hoping to get close to that.
- 1 threshold in effect: I changed this a couple days ago into the higher thresholds, but this created more problems like losing the OL/DL interaction, the running awareness and defensive awareness.
- KRI from 35 to 1: I've always believed this is the read & react slider. The CPU isn't over committing the minute the ball is snapped anymore, and neither are the human players. They are also more ruthless in getting to the ball carrier, but not to the point it is automatically a loss of yardage.
- RTP from 50 to 1: There should be more pressure on the QB's. Also more batted down balls. I want the defenses to be alive/mean - they should be aware of what is going on and play with pride. If you have a great OL, they will still do their job - but the pocket can collapse as it should. The CPU QB will force passes as a result, but not be completely helpless. They will use their tendencies a lot.
- RTK from 30 to 10: This attributes to the aggressive play by the defense at times. I really like how the defense will not budge on some plays, then they overcommit one side and can be taken advantage of. It's more of a chess game this way because you're not sure what kind of coverage you'll be throwing into, or what kind of run defense you're going to face.
- User PCV from 30 to 25: Noticed a bit more stop on routes for coverage, so just a lowering of this for the user has helped remedy that.
- CPU PBL from 50 to 40: Allows the good OL's to stand out but not to the point they are playing patty cake with a good DL. Still takes advantage of all the good OL/DL animations as well. Also allows the CPU QB to have to make some quick decisions, and force passes as well.
- CPU TAK from 40 to 50: Started to become a bit easy to run into the secondary, CPU DL and LB's were there for the tackle, but just reacted too slowly. This makes things a bit more sure on the reactions (especially with the adjustments above) but it's no guarantee they will succeed in making a perfect tackle everytime. Not seeing any WWF tackles either. |
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Explanation of Special Teams and some values in the Slider set:
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Originally Posted by Joshc1977 |
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On another note, I freakin' love this set. If you think you see "issues", make note of the following:
- Your 1-star team feels sluggish? Guess what, it's because they suck - better start recruiting. If you start to get frustrated, play one of the other scheduled games in your dynasty with a good (or even decent) team. I had played two games with UTEP last night...and man it was rough. I popped in a Washington State v. USC game (using WSU) and I was like, "Wow...it feels good to use a higher-level team."
- Getting "screened" to death? Stop the screen. Getting run all over? Stop the run. The CPU will keep running what is working. You'll swear that the "screen issue" is back...it isn't, you just aren't stopping it.
- Both the pass game and run game are going to be more dynamic. My crappy UTEP team had a 23-23 tie with Tennessee in Knoxville going into the 4th quarter. I was nervous that things were too easy. THEN, my worn-down UTEP defense started to slow down a bit (getting sloppy) and Jalen Hurd took advantage. Tennessee scored 21 unanswered points to cruise to the win.
As I was playing several games yesterday with this set....I kept wanting to change things, thinking something needed to change. But I stayed the course and I'm telling you....it's worth it.
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Human Sliders
Human QBA: How accurate your QB throws. A setting of 5 is pretty much the only setting that will give you offline throws.
Human PBK: How much time your line gives you on pass plays.
Human WRC: Can WRs catch the ball? We have found that 40 is optimal for drops and great catches.
Human RBA: Keep this at the same setting as the CPU RBA. Note that lower settings drain stamina more quickly and result in more injuries.
Human RBK: How well your line blocks on run plays. However, on Heisman difficulty, any setting above 5 results in your line getting a massive push that is not ratings-dependent. Leave it at 5, it allows your line to shed blocks properly and move to the second level.
Human PCV: Lower values means that DBs stick to their routes more, high values mean they bat down more passes. However, if you bump it up too much, CBs will actually stop in the middle of the route. If you lower it too much, you will get mirroring where the DBs will actually be out in front of the WR running the same pattern (which also takes them out of run plays more often). We have found that 30 is the optimal value for balancing this. Side note, changing this value also seems to affect how the CPU QBs attack your defense (if it is too high, they will dump off too much).
Human INT: Higher value, more success picking off passes. Set this too high and CPU QBs will start to dump off too much.
Human RDEF: Affects both run and pass defense. With the lower run block sliders, a high run defense will overwhelm the run game. With this set, we have found that a value of 5 is ideal to keep the balance intact.
CPU Sliders
CPU QBA: How accurate the QB throws. A setting of 5 is pretty much the only setting that will give you offline throws. Setting this higher and CPU QBs will attack more downfield (but you have to set it at 35 minimum before you really start to see the difference and by then, even bad QBs will complete high percentages). If you want higher challenge on this set and are willing to sacrifice stat realism...bump up CPU QBA to 35 (or higher).
CPU PBK: How long does the line hold its blocks on pass plays? If this is kept too low, the CPU QBs will start dumping off on every play. A higher setting will give them more confidence to attempt deep passes.
CPU WRC: Can WRs catch the ball? We have found that 40 is optimal for drops and great catches.
CPU RBA:Interesting slider here as it effectively lowers the ratings of all RBs (and possibly other skill position players). If you set this to 50 and above, the CPU RBs will not use their special moves and will just start running like bowling balls (even the small scatbacks). I refer to this as "left-stick running", as it is akin to a human player running the ball using nothing but the left stick on your controller. We have found that settings in the range of 35-45 are ideal. Also has the added benefit of reducing stamina, allowing for more RB rotation).
CPU RBK: Same as Human RBK, but you can go higher here before you start getting the unrealistic "pushback" blocks. I think we have pretty much maxed it out.
CPU PCV: Lower values means that DBs stick to their routes more, high values mean they bat down more passes. However, if you bump it up too much, CBs will actually stop in the middle of the route. If you lower it too much, you will get mirroring where the DBs will actually be out in front of the WR running the same pattern (which also takes them out of run plays more often). We have found that 30 is the optimal value for balancing this.
CPU INT: Higher value, more success picking off passes.
CPU RDEF: Affects both run and pass defense. With the lower run block sliders, a high run defense will overwhelm the run game. With this set, we have found that a value of 5 is ideal to keep the balance intact.
Setting Intentional Grounding Properly (if you change a bolded slider from the OP)
As stated above, many of these sliders will affect the CPU pass game and will require a recalibration of the intentional grounding slider. Difficulty level and threshold will also affect this. Set ALL your other sliders (including penalties) and settings FIRST before doing this.
Start with IG at 95. Start lowering it 5 points at a time if they are not throwing it deep on obvious pass situations (they will dump off a lot and bypass better downfield options for safer throws when IG is high). You'll start to see it at some point where they are now throwing downfield fairly often (even into double coverage). Stop lowering it there. Then, if you see there are times they don't get rid of the ball quickly enough, start inching it up (starting at five point increments and then 1 point increments). You're essentially looking for a balance between getting rid of the ball and throwing deep. The final setting can take a while to hone in on as deep throws may not come every game (if they start throwing deep too often, it is too low, bump it back up one point). Once you think you have it, play a couple of games against other opponents in your dynasty to see how it holds up.
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VERSION 12 COMPLETE
HFA from Off to ON: I just feel it's something we keep going back and forth on. I think we all just need more time (a season's worth) with it on. I'm going to follow my gut from Wolves and Cowher's advice about how it affects momentum more than anything.
KR/PR from 50 to 20: I did ALOT of testing just this value - and what I'm seeing is that the lower KR/
PR brings back a reaction to the play versus an "assuming" decision - where sometimes the CPU will just go all out blitz regardless of down, status, etc. With TAK and INT higher - you should see more reactions from the defense, not to mention a lower PBL for the CPU to be "forced" to make a decision.
DPI from 0 to 20: Need WR's to fight a bit more - plus seeing a bit more psychic DBs than I would like - now with a higher INT, that's going to be an issue. Should be balanced now - and I am also seeing better coverage from the linebackers as well.
IG from 50 to 51: A very small change, but I was starting to see the CPU QB not pitch the ball when the time called for it. This little bump has allowed that to happen more now that the QB is okay with not holding onto the ball unnecessarily.
RTK from 50 to 10: Always been a believe of more pressure put on the QB, the more they will make plays happen because they are forced to. RTK seems to get it just right at lower settings and I believe KR/
PR seems to compliment it further with the higher TAK value.
CPU PBL from 45 to 30: I just felt that the CPU had too much time to throw, and we need to get them to be forced into making decisions - versus just throwing into a crowd. Now with INT higher for both sides, the QB's will feel the threat of a poorly thrown ball. I used one of my older videos as a good reference to what I wanted to see:
CPU WRC from 35 to 40: I love this setting on 35 - but way too much wide open drops, ruining CPU's driving momentum. Again - just like on defense, you should be punished if you called the wrong play, etc. The CPU's kill factor plays into this. I do not want to "hope" for the CPU to sustain a drive just so I can report back to OS that my game was realistic. I want to be challenged - and the CPU's passing game contributes to that.
HUM RBA from 40 to 45: This one always scares me, which is why I was forced to modify the TAK value and the two penalty settings. I do not want an easier run game for the user and I'm seeing good things - but I'll be crossing my fingers to see what stats you guys come up with.
INT from 35 to 45: As mentioned above, just need more of a threat to throw into coverage. I'm definitely guilty of this and multiple times was not punished. Yes DBs don't have the best of hands - but when a floater comes their way, even my 1 year old can catch the ball (he's a prodigy i tell ya), so let's not treat our NCAA players like John Madden treats Ethan Albright
CPU RDEF from 50 to 100: Hum RBA @ 45 is very strong, so I'm seeing great shedding - but the pursuit to close the gaps has to be there with a higher RDEF.
CPU TAK from 25 to 50: As we know TAK affects pursuit, but so does RTK - so I wanted to lower RTK, thus raising TAK. This is also to combat the user run game because there is a significant difference from 40 RBA to 45.
Please keep feedback coming. I'm not going to call this a different version, it's just modifications that I think will address some of the concerns. I will keep previous changes in () as indicated. Thanks, guys.
7/15/14
Announcement: 25 Threshold Set from JoshC
As you frequent readers know, I have been heavily engaged in this thread for the last couple of months working with Matt and others to try to get this thing working as well as possible. I was first intrigued by the OS set after many months with my own set (never posted) and dabbling with others when I saw that Matt had gone to a low RBA/low TAK approach (one that I too prefer). I saw his methods and his style and realized that we would work well together, so I jumped in headlong into slider research.
Our first collaborative effort was a 25 threshold set that worked
very well, causing Matt to say, “Heisman is back.”. Indeed it was. But we wanted more….the ultimate goal if we could free ourselves from threshold altogether (i.e. zero threshold). We put together the ‘perfect’ final set at zero threshold…causing us to exclaim, “We are done!”. It was a beautiful piece of work. But then, more people tried it, even we played it more and the conclusion was the same, “It’s not hard enough!”. Over the long haul (and
long being no more than a few games in a dynasty), hot streaks were prevalent and killed it…. We were back to the drawing board.
We’ve gone through numerous version since then and are up to some sub-version of 11. Unsatisfied by the direction we were going (and being a little burned-out on slider tweaking); I went back to my initial proposal that became version 6 (which is still my favorite of the zero threshold sets). I played all day Sunday with my C-rated Colorado Buffaloes dynasty (going 5-1). It was fun, I enjoyed it (stats were ‘real’)…but while I had a loss, I never really struggled, even against significantly better teams like Ok State (who I blew out….with CU?!!!). The thing that ticked me off was that there was nothing to change; no glaring weakness in the set…..it just wasn’t hard enough. Based on responses from many of you; I think many feel the same way.
I remembered that 25 threshold set we loved and pulled it up from the thread (thanks to Matt for is fine record-keeping on the OP). I started playing and thought, "Oh yeah, this is what I remembered." However, the coverage didn't feel right and completion percentages too high. I quickly started changes to the set based on our work on the zero thresh sets. I believe that I have ironed out the major issues.
With Matt's blessing, I am posting this 25 threshold set as an
alternate to the zero threshold set Matt is working on. This set is designed for a difficult experience that is still realistic. You WILL see big plays for both CPU and User, so don't let the completion of a long pass right away dissuade you. Team skill level matters and even significantly weaker teams should put up a fight. I think the game animates well, but in situations where tweaking something to get an animation more consistently would make the game easier, I didn't do it. The CPU has some bite (unless I really suck at this game).
With that long-winded intro, here is the alternate 25 threshold set...
If you have feedback or concerns, please let us know what you are seeing, but please refer to the fact that it is the 25 threshold set.
7/14/14
Version 11.04 is complete:
Changes to:
OPI/DPI - 64/54 to 51/55: More reaction by CPU DB's on routes. Be careful throwing deep as they like to undercut some routes - not all the time - but enough that you should question who you have at QB to make some throws.
KR/PR - 53 to 99: More aggressive, but it works with the higher PCV by the CPU - CPU can still give up big plays, but they will learn from it - or at least go down punching your QB.
RBA - 40/65 to 35/60: CPU run game is a bit more direct now and less broken tackles/stiff arms. User RBA helps with pass coverage, but also allows more jarred hits to get the ball loose. The feel is not much different than 40 honestly.
CPU PCV - 45 to 95: Has to be increased with the increase in KR/
PR aggression - works well because you will be fooled on occasion, you really cannot run the same play twice.
7/13/14
V11.03 is complete. Please test and provide feedback.
7/13/14: 5:55 PM CST
Updated with QBA @ 10/10 - want to see if CPU is going to stay in their drives a bit more - but still force passes. Already seeing this, so good signs there.
Need to test with a decent defense against a mediocre offense to make sure no robo QB.
Had to put CPU TAK higher though as they were not pursuing ball carrier well.
These tests and V11.03 will be complete.
7/13/14
Good morning, everyone. 24 hour rule - close enough. Thanks to Wolverinemaniac (wolves) for suggesting 10/5 QBA - it has helped with not only the comp % but also with the way in which the CPU maintains their drives. Granted, all teams are different - but you should start to see the team statistics reach a more realistic place than before (i.e. first downs, TOP, 3rd down conv, etc).
I do need you guys to test V11.03 that is pending to complete. I hope it addresses the issues that were glaring:
#1 - Shoot out scores (too easy passing)
#2 - CPU and User comp % too high
#3 - High Number of big play frequency
*I've also placed the corresponding number with the slider that will help fix the issue*
KR/PR from 55 to 53: yes, sounds quite small - but these penalty sliders are very sensitive, a couple inches makes all the difference. Paired with the adjusted PCV settings - you will see defenders break on the ball from behind the receiver versus in front (psychic DB) to respect space and room to make a play on the ball.(#1, #2)
QBA 10/5: Coming to terms how much better this looks and feels. Separates the THP and THA significantly. CPU @ 5 is nice because not only will they need time to warm up (like the user), their misthrows will still be near the receiver's path/route. (#1, #2)
CPU WRC from 40 to 35: With the QBA @ 5 - the velocity of throws is a bit toned down, making it easier for the CPU to catch the ball, and 35 always brings that factor of whether or not the ball will indeed be caught as in previous sets. (#1, #2, #3)
CPU RBL from 20 to Zero: Needed to see block shedding for the user as now we've got a good CPU run game. Down the field blocking was a bit overdone by the receivers - so this has loosened it up just enough for the defenders to shed, then make a play. (#3)
PCV from 85/65 to 40/45 : Should tighten things up significantly better - but not overdone. With the combination of the OPI/DPI and KR/
PR this now brings it better play in the air and overall reactions to where the ball is going. Good QB's can still fit in passes, and bad QB's like myself should just throw it away or take the sack. (#1, #2)
CPU TAK from 45 to 25: Should have done this earlier considering User RBA is at 40. Chance to break tackles, but not much - does help in pursuit a little - but still makes users work for the yards. Helps in the realism of the passing game where more realistic drops will occur for the user because CPU is making a sure tackle (lower value) usually aimed at the ball. So now I've started to seeing those jarring hits from drops again. (#2, #3)
7/12/14
7/11/14
Made a couple slight updates to Version 11.
Version 11 - Update #1 (v 11.01)
Penalties: Decrease KR/
PR to 55 from 65 - helps lower defensive aggression so they are not blitzing as much - but also sticking to assignment on pass coverage.
Gameplay: Increase CPU PBL to 45 from 35 - hoping to see more time in the pocket and pocket awareness with IG @ 85 to work out those 3rd down conversions a bit more.
Gameplay: Increase CPU PBL to 45 from 35 - hoping to see more time in the pocket and pocket awareness with IG @ 85 to work out those 3rd down conversions a bit more.
Gameplay: Increase CPU INT to 30 from 25 - simply too many dropped picks by the CPU @ 25. Turnovers change the game, and often times I think we can feel we cheated the CPU when they don't snag obvious picks.
*that is all for now, OP is updated - thanks - refer this as V 11.01!!*
(Updated live)
I decided to scrap Version 10. Yes it played okay, but honestly it was a bit of a shot in the dark. I went back a couple pages, okay closer to 100 - but still. I found
the set that started this Heisman fiasco - but the one that was on 60 threshold. I remember there were some solid things about the game, and some things that needed work. I went ahead and scrapped anyone else's specific Penalty slider suggestions, and just came up with my own based on my research through the threads.
Try these out, guys. I think we have to use the higher RBA to get the CPU to stop abandoning the run (even when it is working or not) which will result in more realistic 3rd down conversions for the top teams.
Going forward, I will use these as the base for this slider set. Only minor changes if necessary, but I really do not want to go and start from scratch like I did on Version 10.
Version 11 - based off of original Heisman's.
(Updated live)
7/10/14
Guys, I was doing some research tonight in Josh's penalty thread and found even more digging through "YouAlreadyKnow"'s findings on the penalty sliders. Granted, it's for Madden - but NCAA seems to correlate just fine as well. I decided to bite the bullet and input them. I did modify some of the slider values to compensate for the penalty sliders (versus doing it the other way around) and I am pretty pleased with the results. Please test them out. I went ahead and called this VERSION 10 for good luck
- and it's 7/10/14; why not.
(Updated live)
Explanation:
First off, I cant put the game down - but that's beside the point. This is really great stuff, honestly. Earlier today (yesterday) we had tried the 75/25 aggr slider for defense, and it had played great for the most part - but there were some downsides. I really wanted to get that feeling back of college football - big plays, big yards, strong defenses, impact players making....an impact.
What is posted above is exactly what I was looking for.
The penalty sliders alone have created that aggression - but then you have the coaching sliders @ 50/50. So that is the best part about this set up. You have a 50/50 coaching slider, but you have an aggressive gameplay - basically you are going to get a great mix of both worlds now. Before at just 50/50, those big run plays and pass plays were not easy unless you really got your stick skills working - rarely was there blown coverage. Now, depending on rating, you will see more of that as a possibility. The aggressive part is really the players reacting even more to where the ball is. I think YouAlreadyKnow (YAK) did so great in achieving this.
I saw an incredible play today where the my safety was marking the running back - running back stayed in on the blocking scheme - so my safety "found" a receiver that was defended in man - essentially double teaming him - this resulted in the CPU to force a pass on the drag route of said receiver - and the safety picking it off. I'll post the video, but man - it was really incredible.
I know there are those that use penalty sliders and even gameplay sliders - and to the naked eye, these look a bit out there. Remember though, we are using Coaching Sliders @ 50/50 - that is untested waters for A LOT of guys out there that had theories on penalties and other slider values. These sliders have been designed around the fundamentals of coaching sliders, and now - these specific penalty sliders.
I think you guys are going to enjoy what is in store. Please refer as VERSION 10. Thanks!
link to YouAlreadyKnow (Yak) findings:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...&postcount=169
7/10/14
Version 7 pending to 8 - still testing:
Here's what we are working on:
OPI/DPI: 99/75 - tested these for a couple days, and love the DB/WR interaction both in the air and on the ground. Chances for OPI and DPI actually being called too.
RBA: 35/35 - the ever reliable 35 brings in the mix of directness and good agility - not to mention a better feel of weight and momentum to the backs - less floaty and chaotic running. Acceleration is one we are keeping our eye out for - but it does work - just depends on how the CPU tends to call their gameplan. One of the main ones to test though - which is why this is still a test version and not @ Version 8 yet.
RBL: 0/0 - liking the OL/DL play here - not just on runs but on passes as well. Seeing better blocks being disengaged and linemen pushing DL out of the way versus holding on for long periods of time.
RDEF: 0/0 - yeah, thought it'd be more passive than this - but CPU and User have to make the yards count. Before you judge, this was also tested with a higher RBA and it was just as realistic - so keep that in mind.
7/9/14 I'm having concerns with 75/25 aggression. Not necessarily how the CPU defense is playing (although there have been a bit too many blown coverages), but how the CPU offense plays with my 75/25. They play almost more passive, and run less - more 3rd down screens than I have seen.
I'm going to keep this simple and put it @ 50/50 how we have had it. Work on the slider values there - then we can revisit Run/Pass ratios and Coaching Sliders again. I think everyone will appreciate that staying focused on sliders now - and that later.
In the meantime, I'm exploring some other values - feel free to try - not even tried it yet myself, but want to be completely up to date with what is being broadcasted:
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Using Version 7; Coaching Sliders:back to 50/50; OPI/DPI 99/75; CPU PBL 45; RBA @ 35/75; CPU RBL @ 0; USER PCV @ 35; USER/CPU RDEF @ 0; TAK @ 20/45
7/6/14: VERSION 7
7/6/14: VERSION 6.5
Wow, very interesting. Played a half that way and yeah - you're right, more wrap up tackles. That's awesome, Josh!
I think we can combat the ease of running by actually lowering the CPU's RDEF to 25 because they too will be susceptible to being glued in (despite RBL @ zero for USER) - and they will also have a chance to defend the read option better.
Also, I wanted to lower False Start for the sake of them just being called too often in threatening positions - primarily Field goals for the CPU - pretty much every time. I've dropped it to 45 and am still seeing it - but not as much on Field Goals.
I really like where this is going, man. Going to load up twitch and get some games in before soccer @ 5! Twitch will be up in 10 mins.
So, in the meantime - Version 6.5 is as follows:
7/6/14: VERSION 6
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Heisman/Heisman; 9 mins, Zero threshold, Normal speed, HFA Off.
Penalties:
Offsides - 50
False Start - 50
Holding - 99
Facemask - 54
OPI - 20
DPI - 19
KR/PR - 50
Clipping - 50
IG - 95
RTP - 50
RTK - 30
Custom AI
User/CPU
QBA - 30/55
PBL - 35/40
WRC - 35/35
RBA - 45/45
RBL - 0/35
PCV - 75/30
INT - 20/20
RDEF - 40/50
TAK - 30/30
FGP - 70/70
FGA - 0/35
PP - 25/50
PAC - 50/100
KOP - 0/50
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We'll call the slider set below VERSION 6.
Thanks to Josh for testing RBA @ 45 and getting the run game in tact. I did some testing as well and I think we've been able to blend the previous sets nicely with the run game.
I did make two changes to the one Josh posted above:
CPU RBL to 25 from 35
HUM RDEF to 25 from 40
Reason is with a higher CPU RBL there is more "glue" more face on blocking than I would like to see, with it @ 25 there is a mix - but also an even line push. Add on the HUM RDEF now you have players not completely over-pursue their angles, primarily the linebackers - who with the high RDEF and CPU RBL - they would get sucked into the glue and the secondary would have to shed their blocks to make the plays.
Feel free to try both set ups. I went back and forth, and overall - I think the bottom set up will work great - but the either way you will enjoy the crap out of this game.
One quick word about WR drops for the CPU. Stats at the end of the game show drops - and yes they're high in that regard - but a lot of the "drops" we see are ones where the QB throws into traffic and the WR touches the ball - then gets hit immediately, jarring the ball loose. Standout receivers will still stand out - but pay attention to that CIT (Catch in Traffic) rating even more now.
I now we felt great about Version 5 - the concerns were CPU running and User passing. I think we've found the perfect mix now, please test as Version 6 - thanks, everyone, I'll respond to posts previous - got to hit the hay for now!
7/5/14: VERSION 5
Guys, I'm really excited about this Version. Thanks first goes to Dahutoker for bringing up this set. This is was the final set we had originally announced - but it needed some tweaking, in particular the User's run game and pass coverage for both User/CPU.
The main goal all day has been getting comp% lower. I think with the way I'm seeing the QB actually force passes - WR's dropping balls and big hits timed well - we will start to see those #'s go lower. I just finished a half (at half time on twitch tomorrow) where both QB's were around 80 ovr, CPU had 15/28 for a 51% comp and User had 15/24 for 62% comp - both had thrown touchdowns and both had 3 picks.
So try these out - please refer them as
VERSION 5. Thanks.
7/4/14: VERSION 3 (x VERSION 2 no bueno)
I think we're going to get there.
Here's some more outside of the box thinking to digest. Please adjust ONLY...CPU QBA & CPU WRC. From what I've been able to tell is that the coverage for the CPU improves with WRC for User @ 50 - nothing lower. This is probably because of the priority to defend a threat.
The user however, is more aware of the QBA - which is why it seems to not worry so much about a high PCV. Not sure yet on this, but from what I've been testing with QBA and WRC for CPU, it seems to be.
Try it out - don't play a full game if you see perfect passing, just adjust for yourself only the CPU QBA & CPU WRC. Let's figure this out.
Name this one Version 3. I'll post it in the OP. Please refer it correctly so I know which set you're talking about - thanks
7/3/14: VERSION 1
Okay, guys - here is what we are working with. Really, really - love this set. It has everything that we are looking for imho. It is the original zero threshold set I had posted when announcing I was working on one. It took all the good of the 5 and 25 threshold sets.
HFA must be off to truly enjoy it. CPU QBA is still being tested between 0 and 5. Big difference actually. I didn't mess with WRC and PBL anymore because that really affected the kill factor of the CPU. There needs to be more testing @ 0 QBA, so to be safe, use 5. We are working on getting comp % back down.
Test set: 6/27/14
This is what is currently being tested. Kudos to Josh for suggesting QBA @ 45 for the CPU. Wanting to see even better reactions/positioning by the User - they respect the routes a lot more, and coverage looks better. Also lowered PBL so there are no more than 4-5 seconds in that pocket for the QBs.
Starting to feel really good about this set now. Dare I say we are near final because there really isn't anything missing now.
Made two changes, PCV for user matches CPU @ 55. Matching as well is user RBA @ 55. Going to leave CPU TAK @ 30 for now as the CPU usually gets a boost on Heisman anyways.
Test set: 6/26/14
Reason for change:
Spoiler
The reason I wanted to look at the passing game is because of reactions, and toning down interceptions. I started to see every corner as a threat to intercept a ball. This means they were catching picks like wide receivers. At some point, the reality is it doesn't look, or feel, right.
What I am seeing now - is much better reaction - on both sides. Even though they aren't successful attempts at times (because WRC is still @ 50) the animation primarily goes the route of swat versus pick - even if the defender is trailing the route. My thoughts are yes this makes sense because why would I try to animate a swat attempt if my first priority is to pick the ball (higher INT) - so what happens is there is sometimes no animation at all. What doesn't happen as often is when you switch the nearest defender, and go for the pick/swat attempt and they just stop moving completely.
The other advantage is the CPU QB decision making. Being able to take more risks = less completions = more realistic completion %. This has potential to also result in less dink/dunk passes.
I know you have concerns, but let's take into the benefits of modifying RBA.
1. More RB awareness - not just for the RB himself, but for DBs returning picks, KR/
PR don't just run to the sidelines - they stay in the middle of the field and then start their break down the sidelines.
2. Quicker on the draw plays. CPU likes to go for runs on 3rd down at times - not ever successful because on 45 the acceleration takes a tad too long. On 35 it's the same way, so the happy medium that I have found is 55.
3. More direct running. Don't get me wrong, you'll still see RB's cutting in and out - but they'll finish runs going forwards and less of that "stop n go" that you tend to see - especially on the goal-line.
4. Receivers in open space. We know with the coaching sliders the secondary is in a more realistic position to stop long gains after the catch. Now this opens up the receivers to be more creative with what they do after they've caught the ball.
Yes, the special blocks have a chance to be less available. But those 4 benefits largely outweigh that concern of mine. If it's fatigue as well - then more people get to see their back ups, I think that's a common wish to have more of - can't imagine it not working properly with the implementation of your auto - subs as well.
Zero is the HERO. Why?
Because Zero is zero, no attachments - no force fields, no predetermined result of a play. The CPU doesn't hold back, and they take advantage of mismatches - as I learned in last night's (3 of them) games.
I wanted to take away all the good things from the previous sets. So Josh's penalty settings for instance, some of those were needed. I took the new QBA set up and RBL. I approached a lower tackle - but higher than what we had on the other thresholds. I raised holding to allow the run game to open up even more (again thanks Josh). I raised the RBA as well from 35 to 45, to make sure the RB (on zero threshold) didn't get stuck beside or in front of their blockers. Some values I left alone like PBL, WRC and RDEF.
Current in play: 6/23/14
6/23/14:
Guys here is the most up date on the sliders, taking your feedback into account. Changed RBA to 35/35 and HFA on/off since that is up in the air - it will be posted on the OP. Thanks!
6/21/14:
Lot of testing going on today, guys. Thanks for your patience. The following is playing really good. Please try it out and provide feedback. Thanks.
6/14/14:
Here we go guys. This is essentialy a combinatoin of what we already had, and a lot of what Josh has been doing. We changed up a bit in terms of penalty sliders, thresh - but kept a lot of what was good in the original set.
I think you guys are going to enjoy it. Heisman is back - that's all I can say.
6/13/14: A demand for more open, but realistic play, is needed. Trying to make lower thresholds work, here is what I am working on - and need others to as well. We can adjust from here:
Okay, everyone hands on deck. This is with threshold @ 5 - really playing nicely. Please test exactly.
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The 60 threshold set up is good too - see below for the initially "finalized" version.
My personal suggestion for coaching sliders to improve gameplay:
Offense Playcall Aggression: 50/50
Defense Playcall Aggression: 50/50[/b]
*note: sometimes CPU will not exactly be 50/50; so get it as close to that as possible, but on the less aggressive side is preferred. example: 47/53 or 48/52. This way they are not so aggressive on offense with launching 4-verts or screens every 3rd down.
*
The CPU offense and defense just play much better/smarter with 50/50. You are not messing with their run/pass slider so not every team is going to play the exact same if that was a concern. Try it out and you'll see how much more variety the CPU will display since they aren't going crazy with blitzes in the red zone, or 4-verts constantly on offense.*
Previous version:
Summary of Versions/Changes/Experiments -
long.
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Changes 4/5/14
Heisman okay to play: I tested the game on heisman and it plays real nice with this set up as well. So if you need more of a challenge from the AA level - bump it up. I am still testing the hum run defense as it's opened up the CPU's run game significantly. The nice thing is a lot of the features of this set on AA do transfer over into Heisman. So enjoy!
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Changes 9/7/13
AA/Varsity to AA/AA: Basically, I just could not get the game to play the way we want it with the CPU offense on Varsity. I was getting heavily defensive games - and then feeling like the CPU would just give up or not take advantage of weaknesses/errors I had made. Have to accept defeat, and move on - AA plays a solid game post patch - time to let go of pre-patch.
Thresh from 95 to Zero: I'll admit, I was reluctant to make this change because I had never seen issues with 95 pre-patch (seeing a theme here?), but I read feedback and it was consistent in terms of lack of big plays or YAC even. At zero, and with the settings in place, there is a bit more separation in terms of skill and ratings than before to allow those big plays to become possible.
OPI/DPI from 99 to 65: I started seeing a lot of over play by the defense and less reaction at 99 on AA. Primarily concerned with how the user defense played because the reactions were just not good enough.
CPU PBL from 65 to 35: Less time in the pocket results in quicker passes. On top of that, watching college football, you see the pocket "collpase" around the QB - but for a good team, the blocks are held. The issue I've had with a high PBL is when the OL just keeps the defender at bay with no effort - this shouldn't be the case. Seeing less bonehead scramble sacks as well; but QBs will throw the ball away if nothing is open.
HUM RBA from 30 to 45: Just a bit more acceleration from the RB on the draw plays was needed. This is personal preference, but to me it feels good - and still doesn't result in too many unrealstic broken tackles.[/color]
Changes 9/3/13
CPU QBA from 10 to 20: Not only helps accuracy, but after viewing a lot of college football this weekend - quarterbacks aren't necessarily "off target" rather than beaten by good coverage. Sacks happen too often as is, so this will give a bit of a "boost" for the CPU to throw the ball in the first place.
CPU PBL from 50 to 65: Giving more time in the pocket, but not so much that pancakes are happening left and right - you'll still get push. This will also open up the passing game for the CPU a bit as that has been a common complaint with the User Defense being too dominant (for once).
HUM RBA from 30 to 5: Pretty simple to get those slow draw plays to work right. This value is still relatively low compared to other sets - but we don't want to have to raise tackle slider to compensate for the amount of broken tackles.
HUM PCV from 95 to 75: Pre-Patch I wouldn't have touched this to make a difference - but it seems to be a difference maker, finally.This was tricky and took a lot of testing on my part (not on twitch unfortunately) because drop it down too much and you don't get the HUM reacting to the ball in the air. On top of that - curl routes become money because the animation of the DB taking more steps back when the ball IS in the air occurs. 75 hit it just right - tight enough coverage, but paired with CPU QBA and PBL - it gives more "room" for the CPU to go through their progression, but also allow the lower AWR/Play Rec QBs to force throws.
CPU INT from 30 to 45: Matches up to punish the HUM QB on those misthrows - nothing crazy though.
RDEF from 30 to 35: Compensation for raised HUM RBA.
HUM TAK from 35 to 30: There needs to be more Yards after catch (YAC) in the game. I seen a lot of it this past weekend - so this will open the game up some. Plus you don't see many WWE tackles, and if you use your hit stick a lot (like I do) you better make sure to pick the right time to do it.
CPU TAK from 55 to 45: Same as above.
CPU WRC from 40 to 45: Allows CPU receivers to get open and timing on the routes to be a bit better depending on rating. With a very reactive USER pass defense - the CPU needs just a bit help here to balance things out.
*Quick note* : Plese state what roster is being used as multiple roster sets out there have different coaching aggression which can impact gameplay results.
Possible updates could include QBA if too easy or RBA if too slow.
Previous Version (Varsity/Heisman)
| HUM | Previous | CPU | Previous |
| QBA | 5 | 5 | 5 | 5 |
| PBL | 10 | 10 | 30 | 40 |
| WRC | 5 | 0 | 40 | 35 |
| RBA | 30 | 30 | 40 | 30 |
| RBL | 0 | 0 | 25 | 20 |
| PCV | 0 | 10 | 0 | 0 |
| INT | 75 | 70 | 80 | 80 |
| RDEF | 75 | 65 | 80 | 70 |
| TAK | 35 | 50 | 65 | 95 |
Spoiler for Breakdown of Varsity/Heisman slider Value:
Changes explained: Keep in mind that this was tested with the above settings only - so make sure before providing feedback, that the settings are exact. I can't explain why something is how it is if I've never experienced it myself.
QBA: from 5/5 to stay @ 5/5
This will stay @ 5. I know we tried zero, but it felt forced. I loved the velocity of passes - but the CPU would make very passive decisions despite changes to coaching aggression. The trick with 5 is to get the "supporting cast" to cooperate.
Easy Passing? Raise QBA to 25-35. Be careful of Robo QB though considering it's a Heisman offense.
PBL: from 10/40 to 10/30
Part of the supporting cast. This is what brings the passing together. Less time - more throws, and more forced throws. I was incorrect in stating that more time in pocket meant more time to screw up - the minute I realized that, again, things started to match up. CPU QB will still throw those quick passes - but your defense will be ready as long as coaching sliders are not in the negative, i.e 40/60 or 45/55 as a lot of roster makers have unfortunately been mislead into doing.
CPU giving up too many sacks? Raise PBL - but again, be mindful of Robo QB possibility.
WRC: from 5/35 to 5/40
Update: 8/18/13 - WRC for HUM to 5 (from zero) - allows better coverage because CPU defense "thinks" they have to defend something. At zero is was a bit hard to get realistic drops fro the HUM. CPU WRC is also updated to 40 from 35; less drops is the goal.
Part of the supporting cast. WRC was too high for the CPU; but more importantly for the Hum as well because those curl routes and comeback routes were being "over-aggressively" defended. This is why you saw DBs completely over run the play in the air - allowing WR to get the ball and walk into the endzone. Not to say this won't still happen on occasion (especially on broken passing plays), but it's not as bad as before. Remember to stick to the safe 50/50 DEF coaching here as well. Lastly, WR's will drop the ball. It is bound to happen in college football. You might even see wide open drops - but still, it's not as bad as on 30 WRC for CPU.
Too many drops? Raise WRC - first off, drops happen in football - let alone College Football; these are young kids that are at a big stage. So drops are going to happen regardless of rating sometimes. With that said, raise as you see fit.
RBA: from 30/30 to 30/40
Just a balance of what we already know that RBA is not to be too high because you get zig zag running where the RB makes unecessary jukes in the open field. This setting also helps the acceleration to be realistic and blocks to be there in position to support draw plays, etc.
CPU can't run? Raise RBA to 45-55, just be on the lookout for what we call "ghost jukes" when the RB randomly starts juking for no reason in the open field - thus less long runs for TDs, etc.
RBL: from 0/20 to 0/25
When we started this, RBL @ zero was obvious - but the push in the OL was still drastic enough that we needed RBK edits for OL. Now, I can say it's not needed. Along with RDEF - RBL works well for the CPU and with the need of a "slower" RBA, naturally the best tweak would be RBL higher than 20 - think it's perfect there.
Stuffing the CPU run? Raise RBL no higher than 45. Will see a lot more open play when the RB gets into the secondary as well.
PCV: from 10/0 to 0/0
Simply just doesn't do anything. No point in using it. INT slider seems to do the coverage job just fine.
WTf does it do? Other than raise the aggression, resulting in forms of the db glitch, it's useless.
INT: from 70/80 to 75/80
As mentioned above, INT is also the coverage slider. So raising it past 50 is key because now you don't get the stops by DBs or LBs when the receiver is making a cut in their route, etc. You do get some slight mirroring - but I think we've got in on point where there is a realistic look to it. This is one area that can use tweaking as I am still seeing the occasional DB over-running play; mainly on comeback routes; but not all the time and usually by a low AWR corner. Don't hold me to it though as that will be taken as a game by game basis.
Too many interceptions? When you give feedback on this make sure to include what you set QBA and WRC to because yes, interceptions will occur - but INT works as the coverage slider. So you either want the CPU to become Robo QB or do you want realistic numbers? Time your throws and don't force it - just like a real QB does, right?
RDEF: from 65/70 to 75/80
Anytime TAK is lowered; RDEF has to be raised. The reason for this is because TAK works as the pursuit slider as well as the effectiveness in tackling. Drop it too far and you get poor pursuit angles and even worse, poor run defense.
Running so easy? Most likely for HUM if it ever is - I'm having rushing yards with a solid OL - so it makes sense. However, easy fix is actually to DROP the value for the CPU because it does result in less aggressive play - thus getting caught in the OL's grasps.
TAK: from 50/95 to 35/65
Very significant difference from what was there before. Having a lower TAK, as mentioned above, allows the game to not only tighten up; but allow the INT slider to do it's work at the "higher" value - thus coverage is better and the anticipated reaction by the DB is to swat or tackle - not just go for a INT everytime.
Too many broken tackles? You can raise TAK if you'd like - I wouldn't because it works as the pursuit slider as well as the successful tackle animation. Furthermore, people have complimented the "feel" of the sliders - well that's because you're not seeing as many WWE style tackles - AND - better coverage as a result when in traffic.
Auto Subs
QB: 60/80
RB: 84/85
WR: 84/85
FB/TE: 60/80
OL: 60/80
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DT: 84/85
DE: 84/85
LB: 84/85
CB: 84/85
S: 84/85
[/indent]
Live video here on Twitchtv:
Watch live video from matt10l's channel on www.twitch.tv
Click spoiler for explanation and timeline of multiple changes
Credits and Why Varsity/Heisman split?
First off, credit goes to Playmakers for his varsity sliders this year and every year.
This is a collaboration of OS. I'm thanking CowherPowher for his help and SEC as well. Booker21 gets a lot of credit for even suggesting the level of Varsity to me - and he gave credit to Fistofrage for advising of how Varsity's defensive adjustment doesn't happen.
The goal was to combat the aggressive zone coverage that Heisman and AA changes for the defense. This results in issues like poor coverage and the dreaded, although subdued, DB glitch.
Changing offensive skill (user's skill) to Varsity has prevented the CPU from changing their Coverage to Aggressive. You can test this by pausing the game, selecting the CPU side and then waiting till the play select screen is on the corresponding team - press LB/L1 and see that Coverage is set to Aggressive. On Varsity level, while this does change to aggressive, the difference is the CPU will change back to balanced or conservative rather than the other levels remain there - or result in more aggressive than not. Furthermore, the reaction of the effects DB glitch has more of an impact on higher levels (AA/Heisman) than it does on varsity.
8/13/13 - Just had to tweak....
Despite determining we were complete, there are some small tweaks that I just HAD to relay to this thread.
Coaching aggr @ 75/25 for both OFF and DEF for both CPU team and HUM team is perfect. Check out the changes I've made
Same sliders as in OP - except for the following:
CPU: QBA zero; WRC 45; RBL 20; INT 80 (work in progress); RDEF 70 (work in progress)
Try it out - I went ahead and just updated the OP - think guys will complain less about overthrows/underthrows versus perfect passing by a 70 ovr CPU QB.
So the benefits are:
1. Realistic CPU comp % - or at least not perfect passing
2. Maintain integrity of the varsity/heisman split
3. Rushing against CPU is not as easy as before
7/28/13
We are nearing completion with the absolute final version of these sliders. Everyone is feeling great and some workarounds have paid off even more. I couldn't be happier with the set up - and the guys agree. A couple more test games today - but after that, these will be final set - until a patch, if/when that happens - and hopefully fixes more than it could potentialy break
7/26/13
The goal with this test is to improve CPU passing game: I'd say it's working. CPU is taking chances, and throwing over and under on occasion. QB awareness is strong too.
The idea is that to balance the sliders in favor of the CPU's run game so as to open up the passing game. This is why it can be hard for the CPU to pass - because the run game is so bad at times, thus becoming one-dimensional. Football fundamentals there.
So, even if they still run terribly in this game - the game seems to "think" that the run game is in the CPU's favor, which allows the QB to throw downfield more and force more passes depending on rating.
Please also note RBK edit is now at 55, sorry OD guys - I tried all day to see what can be done without edits. The value of 65, for some reason, just stopped working in dynasty and in play now. I have no idea why and have no idea if 55 will stop - but so far it has made a difference. Thanks.
Bold denotes change
IG @ 65; OPI/DPI 50/0
Custom AI (User & CPU) - red denotes change 7/26/13 - note these are currently being tested WITHOUT RBK edits; however - it is still strongly advised if you run into easy HUM run game.
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QB Accuracy: 0/10
Pass Blocking: 0 (15)/40(35)
7/26/13 *working on: QB accuracy is not affected by PBL, it was tested on 100 PBL and made no difference in terms of accuracy. Lowering to create more of a challenge, WRC (below) will help in accuracy. CPU @ 40 is to help not only QB decision making, but overall CPU gameplanning. Has limited wide open drops - but should stick more true to ratings.
WR Catching: 30 (0)/40 (40)
7/28/13 *working on: As mentioned WRC from zero to 30 for HUM will allow QBA @ zero to result in more accuracy, but not overdone like @ 100 or 50. CPU WRC is back @ 40 to reduce Robo QB and more drops (this is college after all) - nice to see less diving catches, etc when not necessary. Even if they do dive - it shouldn't be a completion every time like it is on 45 or 50. This also helps QB accuracy when lowered too.
RB Ability: 40/50 (40)
7/26/13 *working on: Open up the CPU run game - I feel this is going to equally help them pay attention to the HUM run game more. Who knows - but this also helps CPU passing as well geared towards balance.
Run Blocking: 0/40 (10)
7/26/13 *working on: Helping the run game of course. Not much to be said. QB option is very tough to defend.
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Pass Coverage: 10 (35)/15
7/26/13 *working on: I'm not saying PCV is reversed. But it's playing pretty well on 10; as is the CPU's defense. Especially add in the factors of QBA/WRC, etc.
Interceptions: 30 (40)/30 (40)
7/26/13 *working on: More swats, less attempts at brick-hands picks.
Rush Defense: 30 (50)/50
7/26/13 *working on: CPU run game needs to be established, dropped from 50 as a result. it works - and this opens up the pass game.
Tackling: 50/75
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FG Power: 80/80
FG Accuracy: 0/35
Punt Power: 5/5
Punt Accuracy: 30/70
Kickoff Power: 30/30
*OL run blocking (55) attribute edits recommended
Auto Subs
QB: 60/80
RB: 84/85
WR: 84/85
FB/TE: 60/80
OL: 60/80
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DT: 84/85
DE: 84/85
LB: 84/85
CB: 84/85
S: 84/85