25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone

[TalenT]

Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone

If you like realism I don't see how you can justify not liking the cone. All the things a real QB has to do you had to do with the vision cone. QBs have to look at the receiver before throwing and some QBs have better vision than others right? On offense, being able to look off safeties was awesome and on defense, reading the QBs "eyes" was pretty cool too. I think it just became too hard for users but just like anything new you just have to get used to it.

[SageInfinite]

Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone

I just felt like it was clunky and the flashlight looked goofy. Loved the concept but hated the implementation. IMO steering a qb's vision was just as "videogame" as anything else. A qb looking and turning his head is instant, he doesn't have to steer. Again love the idea of trying to add vision and a new mechanic to being a quarterback, but it needed refinement.

[Tsuki]

Shot Stick(2k) Skill Stick(NHL) Vision Cone(Madden)

All game changing sim oriented features based on all factors of a player ratings, opposing players ratings, and users knowledge of the controls.

Most of us hated the shot sick in 2K but the developers knew the importance in simulation the feature had and made us adapt we soon grew to love it.

Some of us found the skill stick to be more complicated then pressing "deke" but the developers knew the importance in simulation the feature had and made us adapt we soon grew to love it.

LILNICB15 made a point that some of us were kids at the time of it being released and not understanding the dynamics involved with a QB's progression.

Any feature that makes people go into the practice mode for hours to learn and individual players abilities and controls with that said feature should be applauded in the community.

Every players release in 2k wont be as smoove as Kobe's so learning how others release for everytype of shot is important. I know people who can take over with a ben gordan, steph curry, dirk, or shawn marion just by release knowledge alone that was acquired from PRACTICE with the shot stick which SHOULD REWARD THE PLAYER.

Not every player skates or handles the puck like datsyuk. So it is important to know that you can't dangle the D with jimmy hayes persay. BUT you can practice with that said player understand what they are capable of despite not having the high control or skating ratings and find a way to be effective once again REWARDING THE PLAYER FOR PRACTICING WITH THE FEATURE(skill stick).

If the vision cone were to return it does not mean if your favorite team is the bengals andy dolton is automatically ineffective. No feature should make you afraid to play with other teams simply because their weakness is a QB with low awareness. This just means that as the bengals user you gotta get in PRACTICE and learn how to cope with his cone. Find which plays work for him which receiver sets are best in any situation. Take that another step into Franchise Mode and knowing you played a couple of seasons with dolton and adapted to his ablities based on stats you the USER should be REWARDED for his AWR and passing ratings increase.

In my sports gaming experience I have learned that no team is really "weak" no player is really "useless" as long a simulation features give the user a chance at understanding how to adapt along side the feature and that players ratings in sometype of way.

[Gorilla Glass]

Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone

Another problem I had with the cone is it represented the QB awareness, if I'm taking control, my aawareness is suppose to. The flashlight then impedes on my awareness and was annoying.

It was a gimmick, because they couldn't get the AI right-tight.lol

Maybe if they brought it back invisible or something, but the casuals wouldn't like it and step on some pockets.

[slick589]

Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone

Another problem I had with the cone is it represented the QB awareness, if I'm taking control, my aawareness is suppose to. The flashlight then impedes on my awareness and was annoying.

It was a gimmick, because they couldn't get the AI right-tight.lol

Maybe if they brought it back invisible or something, but the casuals wouldn't like it and step on some pockets.

The logic that user awareness should out weigh player awareness is one argument I can understand against the vison cone.

However the user awareness should be that he knows how narrow or wide his qbs cone is, he knows his qbs throw power and accuracy and he uses them accordingly and effectively.

My user awareness should not be able to make Chris Weinke a hall of fame qb lol

[slick589]

Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone

You couldn't turn it off on All Madden.

My apologies. I was younger then an still played on all pro. I didn't know it couldn't be turned off on all madden.

[Gorilla Glass]

Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone

The logic that user awareness should out weigh player awareness is one argument I can understand against the vison cone.

However the user awareness should be that he knows how narrow or wide his qbs cone is, he knows his qbs throw power and accuracy and he uses them accordingly and effectively.

My user awareness should not be able to make Chris Weinke a hall of fame qb lol

Agreed. That's why awareness of all 10 men should play into the QBs (me) decision making.

The cone was originally an illustration tool used by ESPN. They guessed what the QB saw and guessed why. There is a chance that all QBs see the samething, but just lack confidence to make certain throws. That shouldn't impede on me while I'm at the helm.

The cone was not needed because all of us see the TV screen differently. I can anticipate a play based on years of experience playing Madden. I have my own cone.

[slick589]

Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone

Agreed. That's why awareness of all 10 men should play into the QBs (me) decision making.

The cone was originally an illustration tool used by ESPN. They guessed what the QB saw and guessed why. There is a chance that all QBs see the samething, but just lack confidence to make certain throws. That shouldn't impede on me while I'm at the helm.

The cone was not needed because all of us see the TV screen differently. I can anticipate a play based on years of experience playing Madden. I have my own cone.

I'm not sure you get what I'm saying.

I think that user and player awareness should be 2 separate entities that come into play simultaneously.

Ex. User awareness is reading defenses, knowing where and when to throw, knowing if your qb is capable of making those throws.

This ties into player ratings by making you use a smaller vision cone for a qb with less awareness. You can still try to make any throw you want but it may be harder. However having good user awareness that I mentioned earlier still makes it easy and possible.

I think the god mode camera view is another reason the cone was needed. No qb not even Peyton and Brady can see every receiver on the field at the same time like we the user can from the god view.

All that being said i respect your opinion of the cone lol.

[cdon2k]

The cone was a decent idea, but failed in two major ways.

The first was the cone actually backfired and made the opposite of the desired result. It made bad QB's better than good ones. I'll explain how this happened. When a QB had a receiver in his vision, the defense (Safeties) drifted towards the WR. A QB with poor awareness (resulting in as small cone) could stare down a WR drawing the defense to him, say on the left side, and then R2 quick shift his small cone back to the #1 WR on the right for a more open target. QB's with high awareness like Peyton Manning, could not do this as their cone covered the whole field, so he, ironically, could not look off a defender as mentioned.

The second issue with the cone is that the light represents the QB's vision. As you play, you either use the left stick or the R2 button to scan around the field. The issue with that is, that as a user, your eyes are already scanning around the field, looking for an open WR as you play. So you do the progressions with your own real eyes, and then control the QB's virtual eyes to make look at the WR. That results in a double progression, which is a pretty big issue. If they wanted to leave it in as an option as a game mechanic to add a level of difficulty, I would be fine with that, but issue #1 needs to be figured out and fixed.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone

I know different people have different opinions but the notion that anything for most of this gen was about realism, is so unfounded. People keep mentioning how "sim", ie realistic Vision Cone was in 2005, when after looking at Tiburon's whole body of next-gen work, it's evident that realism has never been their target for anything, outside of graphics and rhetoric. The list of these type features is long and consistent throughout this exclusive football gen, so I just don't understand why some skew this into something they want to see come back or as sim.

Yes, I repeat yes, the concept of actual "QB Vision" in football is realistic but this feature wasn't and was likely only loosely based on any real life counterpart, if at all. Looking at just that feature alone, it's easy for anyone to mistakenly conclude that the feature had a sim premise but the implementation was off, I did so myself in the past, however looking at all the features this entire gen for context, shows a much different, clear picture. Same thing with "fight for the fumble" and "throw a receiver open", just to name a couple, if isolated they seem sim intended with implementation that went astray but no, they worked as intended, to maximize User control, not football realism.

I don't expect or necessarily want everyone to despise what Tiburon has done with football video games this gen like I do but I do want people to at least call a spade a spade. Tiburon has admittedly consistently prioritized User control over realism this gen yet some people still give them "sim" credit, where none is due. I don't begrudge anyone for their opinion of the QB Vision feature but it's what I perceive as the blatant mischaracterization of the feature and next-gen Madden as a whole, as even a genuine attempt at "sim", that irks me.

[Gorilla Glass]

Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone

I can't remember the year, maybe Madden 08, but when you played with a bad QB, it was pick city.

I specifically remembering that you had to pass lead more inside and out with passes. What happened with that? Can anybody help me?

[ven0m43]

I would like to see the next gen madden bring back this feature; where the ps3 eye and xbox1 kinect tracks your eye and the cone moves to where you're looking.

[Mauer4MVP]

Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone

In theory, it was one of the best features Madden has come up with. It needed to be easier controlled though.

I'm not sure what the solution would be.

Have control stick still be fore the cone except when ever you push it, it locks on to an area where a receiver is (because quarterbacks should know the running routes).

[TDenverFan]

Loved the cone, but I hated how small the vision for some backups were. If they were just marginally bigger, but still small enough that the best QBs had a significant advantage, this would be great.

I'd love to see this in NCAA, too. Playing on the road in Happy Valley, and you put in a freshman? That cone better be tiny

[jyoung]

Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone

As a Titans fan who played a lot of Madden 06, Madden 07 and Madden 08 on the PC:

Vince Young with the vision cone = awful
Vince Young without vision cone = best QB in the game after Vick and McNabb

That right there is all you need to know about why the vision cone should still be in the game, at the very least, as an option you can toggle on/off.

The vision cone helped bring bad QBs back down to reality instead of the way Madden is now where any QB can be an all-pro in the hands of a skilled player.