Madden NFL 25 Videos (Taken by Attendees From Recent Community Event)

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Videos (Taken by Attendees From Recent Community Event)

To the bolded, what does that even mean SIM MINDED?

As for everything else about not trying to be biased or whatnot, I feel u on that, but why not the leap forward with Madden 25 nex gen? Just seems like a bunch of wasted dev time to me if you're not gonna improve on anything or trying to move the franchise forward in the right direction again. Why do we have to keep waiting on the next game before these 2 come out to finally see this new direction and have faith?

I never said they aren't moving forward or trying to improve anything on next gen M25.

The improvements are right here, http://www.easports.com/madden-nfl/m...nfl-25/xboxone

The improvements in player awareness, true step locomotion, a.i., o/d line interactions, double team pass blocking with logic to support it, dynamic sidelines and crowds, better commentary, in-game saves, those are all going to be on next gen Madden 25. Madden 15 will be the first next gen Madden built with a full years time to develop and I think it will be a huge improvement over M25 next gen. I also think M25 next gen will be a huge improvement over M25 current gen.

[schmit_95]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Videos (Taken by Attendees From Recent Community Event)

I never said they aren't moving forward or trying to improve anything on next gen M25.

The improvements are right here, http://www.easports.com/madden-nfl/m...nfl-25/xboxone

The improvements in player awareness, true step locomotion, a.i., o/d line interactions, double team pass blocking with logic to support it, dynamic sidelines and crowds, better commentary, in-game saves, those are all going to be on next gen Madden 25. Madden 15 will be the first next gen Madden built with a full years time to develop and I think it will be a huge improvement over M25 next gen. I also think M25 next gen will be a huge improvement over M25 current gen.

I hear you, my problem is we have to keep waiting and waiting....whos to say this Weber guy isn't out next year, then its 3 year plan all over again. And really, current gen limitations? I am so tired of hearing that, when the lowly PS2 did all that and more and the current gens have limitations? C'mon. Im a novice at best at prograaming and such, but that sounds like a company line to me.
And i have heard from many people on this site,and others that it would be wise to stick with this gen of madden, and skip the first next gen edition. And to add to that, MAdden 15 will have a full year development cyle, but yet when there are issues the developers say "its hard to fix things with only a full year develpment cycle. I'm just tired of waiting.......longing for the days of NFL licensed game competition.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Videos (Taken by Attendees From Recent Community Event)

I never said they aren't moving forward or trying to improve anything on next gen M25.

The improvements are right here, http://www.easports.com/madden-nfl/m...nfl-25/xboxone

The improvements in player awareness, true step locomotion, a.i., o/d line interactions, double team pass blocking with logic to support it, dynamic sidelines and crowds, better commentary, in-game saves, those are all going to be on next gen Madden 25. Madden 15 will be the first next gen Madden built with a full years time to develop and I think it will be a huge improvement over M25 next gen. I also think M25 next gen will be a huge improvement over M25 current gen.

Is there any point that you would ever change your mind or admit even this new team isn't prioritizing realism, for whatever reason? To be clear, I'm not trying to come at you and actually agree that the current teams gives off good "sim" vibes but it's only the actually game that matters.

Some of the most basic concepts of football are still unrealistic in M25 and inferior to outdated football games, like the tethered ball, wr/db interaction, penalties, injuries, ratings, player management, play calling and presentation. While this can be easily chalked up to the accepted premise that "next-gen was doomed from the jump but the new consoles are a fresh start", that puts all the marbles on the M25 for new consoles. If Tiburon has truly turned some corner in their approach to football, M25 on new consoles must be fundamentally different and football sound.

I have stated that I would give them the benefit of the doubt on Madden until next year but have since changed my mind because they have allegedly been working on the new console M25 for 2+ years already. Considering that, the FUNDAMENTAL difference, not just graphically, cosmetic sidelines, living worlds, etc but football representation fundamentals, between M25 on current consoles and the new consoles, must be as glaring as the fundamental difference between current Madden and real football. If not, Tiburon football is just destined for more of the same, despite rhetoric to the contrary. A game play video of current M25 next to one of new console M25 should be stark, in relation to watching a real football game, with the latter being far more representative.

So to come back to my original question, what if M25 on the new consoles is fundamentally M25 on the current consoles, same penalty, injury, passing, etc, just with better visuals and living sidelines, is that enough for you? It won't be for me because that implies that Tiburon believes the improvements made in M25 current gen are solid enough to be added for next-gen and it's on to other areas.

Hype trailers and edited game play footage shouldn't be the cornerstone for a video game, if I go on Youtube to watch a video of The Show or NBA2k, none of that is necessary for me to see how well those games mimic their sport. New console Madden is an epic fail, imo, if it's "still Madden" when we see unedited game play and I can't believe some people see Madden looking like Madden as a good thing or think it should be a given, headed into a new console gen. "Madden" the video game is NOT synonymous with NFL football, it's a whole other brand of video game football unto itself and my main focus for the new consoles is if Weber and company are still fundamentally making Madden football with NFL branding or are now really replicating NFL football with a Madden moniker.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Videos (Taken by Attendees From Recent Community Event)

Is there any point that you would ever change your mind or admit even this new team isn't prioritizing realism, for whatever reason? To be clear, I'm not trying to come at you and actually agree that the current teams gives off good "sim" vibes but it's only the actually game that matters.

Some of the most basic concepts of football are still unrealistic in M25 and inferior to outdated football games, like the tethered ball, wr/db interaction, penalties, injuries, ratings, player management, play calling and presentation. While this can be easily chalked up to the accepted premise that "next-gen was doomed from the jump but the new consoles are a fresh start", that puts all the marbles on the M25 for new consoles. If Tiburon has truly turned some corner in their approach to football, M25 on new consoles must be fundamentally different and football sound.

I have stated that I would give them the benefit of the doubt on Madden until next year but have since changed my mind because they have allegedly been working on the new console M25 for 2+ years already. Considering that, the FUNDAMENTAL difference, not just graphically, cosmetic sidelines, living worlds, etc but football representation fundamentals, between M25 on current consoles and the new consoles, must be as glaring as the fundamental difference between current Madden and real football. If not, Tiburon football is just destined for more of the same, despite rhetoric to the contrary. A game play video of current M25 next to one of new console M25 should be stark, in relation to watching a real football game, with the latter being far more representative.

So to come back to my original question, what if M25 on the new consoles is fundamentally M25 on the current consoles, same penalty, injury, passing, etc, just with better visuals and living sidelines, is that enough for you? It won't be for me because that implies that Tiburon believes the improvements made in M25 current gen are solid enough to be added for next-gen and it's on to other areas.

Hype trailers and edited game play footage shouldn't be the cornerstone for a video game, if I go on Youtube to watch a video of The Show or NBA2k, none of that is necessary for me to see how well those games mimic their sport. New console Madden is an epic fail, imo, if it's "still Madden" when we see unedited game play and I can't believe some people see Madden looking like Madden as a good thing or think it should be a given, headed into a new console gen. "Madden" the video game is NOT synonymous with NFL football, it's a whole other brand of video game football unto itself and my main focus for the new consoles is if Weber and company are still fundamentally making Madden football with NFL branding or are now really replicating NFL football with a Madden moniker.

That's that ether right there. I heard it makes the soul burn slow.....

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Videos (Taken by Attendees From Recent Community Event)

[/B]

I hear you, my problem is we have to keep waiting and waiting....whos to say this Weber guy isn't out next year, then its 3 year plan all over again. And really, current gen limitations? I am so tired of hearing that, when the lowly PS2 did all that and more and the current gens have limitations? C'mon. Im a novice at best at prograaming and such, but that sounds like a company line to me.
And i have heard from many people on this site,and others that it would be wise to stick with this gen of madden, and skip the first next gen edition. And to add to that, MAdden 15 will have a full year development cyle, but yet when there are issues the developers say "its hard to fix things with only a full year develpment cycle. I'm just tired of waiting.......longing for the days of NFL licensed game competition.

There are current gen limitations and fundamentally broken issues with the current engine. When I say sim minded it means simulation, a simulation of the sport the game represents. In this case, it means a fundamentally solid football game. They are going to be making many improvements to the fundamental issues of this game in the next few years. All of the following are going to be addressed on next gen. O/D line interactions(M25), WR/DB interactions(big focus of this dev team, minor improvement in M25 but may not see it fully fixed until 15), pass and run blocking logic, including true double teams with logic to support it, something no football game has ever had(2k5 and all pro had the animations but not the logic supporting it like Madden will, thanks to Clint Oldenburg.) True Step locomotion, which will eliminate sliding/ice skating/swerve running. 50x better contextual awareness, which will eliminate players bumping into each other post play and create a much more realistic experience on the field as players will be much more aware of each other.

This dev team is going to take the proper time neccessary to implement these features and not half way do them like we have seen in the past. The WR/DB interactions will be dealt with in the same way that run/pass blocking was. They are going to take a full cycle and make sure they get them right so they don't have to keep fixing them for years to come.

I'm not sure what they are doing for penalties, but I'm sure they have a plan, because they seem to have a plan for just about every fundamental issue and I've heard the current engine is the main issue with penalties too.

Now let's look at something and I want you guys to think this over good. Lets say that in April 2014 the exclusive license ends and fill in the blank company is allowed to make a NFL football game again. That means the earliest they would be able to make a game would be for the 2015 season. Now look at that and think about Madden having 3 years of development time and where they could be if they back up their promises on next gen. The best opportunity for competition for Madden has come and gone. Any company that tries to compete from this point forward, is going to be facing a serious disadvantage. A company needs at least 2-3 years to make a decent game. Our best bet is for Madden to be what the devs are saying it will be and to help them get there in any way that we can. That is why Moody and TSS are backing what EA is trying to do for Madden now. The goal of the sim community all along was to make the best sim football game possible and to support whoever is trying to do that. That's exactly what Moody, TSS, the Game Changers, and anyone else who joins them in the future is trying to do. These guys have seen the future of Madden and they know it's bright for the sim football fan. Does anyone on here honestly believe they know better than the guys who sat and talked with the developers face to face?

I know I'm definitely not proud enough to make that statement.

[schmit_95]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Videos (Taken by Attendees From Recent Community Event)

There are current gen limitations and fundamentally broken issues with the current engine. When I say sim minded it means simulation, a simulation of the sport the game represents. In this case, it means a fundamentally solid football game. They are going to be making many improvements to the fundamental issues of this game in the next few years. All of the following are going to be addressed on next gen. O/D line interactions(M25), WR/DB interactions(big focus of this dev team, minor improvement in M25 but may not see it fully fixed until 15), pass and run blocking logic, including true double teams with logic to support it, something no football game has ever had(2k5 and all pro had the animations but not the logic supporting it like Madden will, thanks to Clint Oldenburg.) True Step locomotion, which will eliminate sliding/ice skating/swerve running. 50x better contextual awareness, which will eliminate players bumping into each other post play and create a much more realistic experience on the field as players will be much more aware of each other.

This dev team is going to take the proper time neccessary to implement these features and not half way do them like we have seen in the past. The WR/DB interactions will be dealt with in the same way that run/pass blocking was. They are going to take a full cycle and make sure they get them right so they don't have to keep fixing them for years to come.

I'm not sure what they are doing for penalties, but I'm sure they have a plan, because they seem to have a plan for just about every fundamental issue and I've heard the current engine is the main issue with penalties too.

Now let's look at something and I want you guys to think this over good. Lets say that in April 2014 the exclusive license ends and fill in the blank company is allowed to make a NFL football game again. That means the earliest they would be able to make a game would be for the 2015 season. Now look at that and think about Madden having 3 years of development time and where they could be if they back up their promises on next gen. The best opportunity for competition for Madden has come and gone. Any company that tries to compete from this point forward, is going to be facing a serious disadvantage. A company needs at least 2-3 years to make a decent game. Our best bet is for Madden to be what the devs are saying it will be and to help them get there in any way that we can. That is why Moody and TSS are backing what EA is trying to do for Madden now. The goal of the sim community all along was to make the best sim football game possible and to support whoever is trying to do that. That's exactly what Moody, TSS, the Game Changers, and anyone else who joins them in the future is trying to do. These guys have seen the future of Madden and they know it's bright for the sim football fan. Does anyone on here honestly believe they know better than the guys who sat and talked with the developers face to face?

I know I'm definitely not proud enough to make that statement.

Well put and well said, and Im not going to harp on this any longer, but we all have heard these same promises and commitments since Cummings was here. Until they show me,I will never give them the benefit of the doubt, I don't care who is on the development team. Show me the goods and Ill jump on board....

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Videos (Taken by Attendees From Recent Community Event)

@JP, I have the utmost respect for the Sim Standard, Ryan Moody, even most Game Changers, anyone that has been pushing for a realistic focus on football for the only NFL game allowed. However, none of that matters if the game is "still Madden" and even M25 on the current consoles looks to still be Madden, not NFL football. I get the impression that alot of people, Weber, Sim Standard, Moody, some EAGCs, etc want a realism focus but the underline belief behind the football games still seems to be "realistic to a point". I watched a video from Ryan Moody the other night and I got the impression he realizes we won't/can't ever get what we want or expect from Tiburon in a football video game for whatever reason but should to try to make the best of it. It's a mature and reasonable position to take but disappointing nonetheless at what we are stuck with.

Your own post implies that new console Madden should eventually be better over the years but I don't see how that's different from now. I don't doubt that this new team will do more with improved consoles and tech but the game might still be an incomplete arcade-sim hybrid mess. Playing video games is visceral, I know whether I like what I'm playing or not, by playing it, so anyone can say whatever they want about the intentions of Tiburon but when I play Madden or see videos of it, I think of Madden, not NFL football. I have had that same hands on impression of this game for as long as I can remember and I think that's what Tiburon wants.

It has been asked time and time again, why would anyone need to go tell devs how to make realistic football games? They wouldn't, if Tiburon was trying to prioritize realism the game would reflect it, period. Instead there is all kinds of politics, marketing or whatever bs going on around EA Tiburon and Madden, that frankly, I don't think the Ryan Moodys and Sim Standards of the world would give an eff about, if not for the NFL exclusive. Meaning, if there was other choices, some company would be filling the realism void for a realistic NFL football game and those guys wouldn't care less what EA Tiburon did with Madden, nor would most sim gamers.

I understand that those guys are just making the best of an unfortunate situation, in relation to football gaming but the bottomline for me towards Tiburon is, if EA wants a realistic complete NFL football on the level with The Show and NBA2k, then that's what they will make and it won't take years. However they haven't, to this point, so it is what it is.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Videos (Taken by Attendees From Recent Community Event)

@JP, I have the utmost respect for the Sim Standard, Ryan Moody, even most Game Changers, anyone that has been pushing for a realistic focus on football for the only NFL game allowed. However, none of that matters if the game is "still Madden" and even M25 on the current consoles looks to still be Madden, not NFL football. I get the impression that alot of people, Weber, Sim Standard, Moody, some EAGCs, etc want a realism focus but the underline belief behind the football games still seems to be "realistic to a point". I watched a video from Ryan Moody the other night and I got the impression he realizes we won't/can't ever get what we want or expect from Tiburon in a football video game for whatever reason but should to try to make the best of it. It's a mature and reasonable position to take but disappointing nonetheless at what we are stuck with.

Your own post implies that new console Madden should eventually be better over the years but I don't see how that's different from now. I don't doubt that this new team will do more with improved consoles and tech but the game might still be an incomplete arcade-sim hybrid mess. Playing video games is visceral, I know whether I like what I'm playing or not, by playing it, so anyone can say whatever they want about the intentions of Tiburon but when I play Madden or see videos of it, I think of Madden, not NFL football. I have had that same hands on impression of this game for as long as I can remember and I think that's what Tiburon wants.

It has been asked time and time again, why would anyone need to go tell devs how to make realistic football games? They wouldn't, if Tiburon was trying to prioritize realism the game would reflect it, period. Instead there is all kinds of politics, marketing or whatever bs going on around EA Tiburon and Madden, that frankly, I don't think the Ryan Moodys and Sim Standards of the world would give an eff about, if not for the NFL exclusive. Meaning, if there was other choices, some company would be filling the realism void for a realistic NFL football game and those guys wouldn't care less what EA Tiburon did with Madden, nor would most sim gamers.

I understand that those guys are just making the best of an unfortunate situation, in relation to football gaming but the bottomline for me towards Tiburon is, if EA wants a realistic complete NFL football on the level with The Show and NBA2k, then that's what they will make and it won't take years. However they haven't, to this point, so it is what it is.

I don't expect your skeptical outlook on the future of the game to change until you see otherwise on next gen. I don't plan on changing my positive outlook on the future of the game until I see otherwise on next gen.

At the end of the day I guess we can agree on this. We both aren't happy with where the game has been, we both want the game to improve. One of us is excited about the future, the other is pessimistic. Nothing wrong with either.

[schmit_95]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Videos (Taken by Attendees From Recent Community Event)

I don't expect your skeptical outlook on the future of the game to change until you see otherwise on next gen. I don't plan on changing my positive outlook on the future of the game until I see otherwise on next gen.

At the end of the day I guess we can agree on this. We both aren't happy with where the game has been, we both want the game to improve. One of us is excited about the future, the other is pessimistic. Nothing wrong with either.

Wow, a constructive argument on OS, and we all part friends!! This is a first since ive been here!! Well done, gents.

[SmashMan]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Videos (Taken by Attendees From Recent Community Event)

It's been pretty civil (and you guys have been around enough to know how it goes)...but can we not turn this into a "jp is too positive about Madden" or "Madden needs 'x', 'y', and 'z'..." thread?

(I'm half-kidding. This discussion has been had many times, and probably by the exact same people...but we all know some rarely-seen random people are going to jump and get this thing locked. It's the circle of OS.)

[inkcil]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Videos (Taken by Attendees From Recent Community Event)

@JP, I have the utmost respect for the Sim Standard, Ryan Moody, even most Game Changers, anyone that has been pushing for a realistic focus on football for the only NFL game allowed. However, none of that matters if the game is "still Madden" and even M25 on the current consoles looks to still be Madden, not NFL football. I get the impression that alot of people, Weber, Sim Standard, Moody, some EAGCs, etc want a realism focus but the underline belief behind the football games still seems to be "realistic to a point". I watched a video from Ryan Moody the other night and I got the impression he realizes we won't/can't ever get what we want or expect from Tiburon in a football video game for whatever reason but should to try to make the best of it. It's a mature and reasonable position to take but disappointing nonetheless at what we are stuck with.

Your own post implies that new console Madden should eventually be better over the years but I don't see how that's different from now. I don't doubt that this new team will do more with improved consoles and tech but the game might still be an incomplete arcade-sim hybrid mess. Playing video games is visceral, I know whether I like what I'm playing or not, by playing it, so anyone can say whatever they want about the intentions of Tiburon but when I play Madden or see videos of it, I think of Madden, not NFL football. I have had that same hands on impression of this game for as long as I can remember and I think that's what Tiburon wants.

It has been asked time and time again, why would anyone need to go tell devs how to make realistic football games? They wouldn't, if Tiburon was trying to prioritize realism the game would reflect it, period. Instead there is all kinds of politics, marketing or whatever bs going on around EA Tiburon and Madden, that frankly, I don't think the Ryan Moodys and Sim Standards of the world would give an eff about, if not for the NFL exclusive. Meaning, if there was other choices, some company would be filling the realism void for a realistic NFL football game and those guys wouldn't care less what EA Tiburon did with Madden, nor would most sim gamers.

I understand that those guys are just making the best of an unfortunate situation, in relation to football gaming but the bottomline for me towards Tiburon is, if EA wants a realistic complete NFL football on the level with The Show and NBA2k, then that's what they will make and it won't take years. However they haven't, to this point, so it is what it is.

Man, this is one of those posts that are "must reading" for this thread. I actually wish that there was a thread STICKED where only the mods could just insert the best posts pertaining to a game. And that "read-only" thread would be OS' contribution to the "enlightenment age" of sports gaming thinking.

I hope that the guys you mentioned, in their honest efforts to get close to EA in order to help "make the game better" don't lose their "sim-sibilities" (and water-down their definition of what SIM football video gaming is/should/could be) to the marketing/hype Web of a SIMCADE game that has always been SIMCADE and shows no sign of changing that philosophy. Because the Web is stronger than any individual's desire for a SIM football video game. Trust me. I used to work in PR for the 49ers and I've been to EA's digs surrounded by the sights and the sounds and the TV's and all the other people there who love Madden "just the way it is" and you are caught in a Tidal Wave of undeniable Fun and Energy and Smiles and Laughter and video game enjoyment that EA Professionals understand how to create like no other. Once you're on their court it's like telling a kid at Disneyland "don't have fun with that Mickey Mouse because he isn't a SIM mouse, he's just a cartoon mouse." And honestly, if you love video games, with the emphasis being on the word "video games" then it is an incredibly fun place to be.

Since we all know and have experienced that regardless of who the development team lead is and regardless of what the "new direction is" that EA and Tiburon are Committed to a Simcade Madden, then my hope is that EA puts out a game as glitch-free and bug-free as developmentally possible. Hopefully Moody and guys like that can help them with the "QA" needed to achieve that goal.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Videos (Taken by Attendees From Recent Community Event)

Is Moody now a Gamechanger?

[poster]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Videos (Taken by Attendees From Recent Community Event)

Great posts, Big. I saw the Moody video and was shocked at his point of view, considering the game still looked like "Madden".

I hope I am very wrong, but I just don't see the core of the game being different on gen 4. It should be, but I feel there will be more excuses. It should not take three years into gen 4 to fix all of the issues. This should have started when the development for the game started during the past couple of years. Based on their half baked development history, I am thinking more shortcuts were taken instead of just simulating real nfl football.

[Maelstrom-XIII]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Videos (Taken by Attendees From Recent Community Event)

It may play better when the demo comes out...but you're right. It looks the same, still has the same issues, etc. The "endorsement" sorta sounded more like "If I keep harping on how bad they make this game, I won't get this sort of opportunity any more, so I've got to tone it down."

[dat boi Q]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Videos (Taken by Attendees From Recent Community Event)

Just gotta realize this game isn't made to be a full simulation game.
Stop wasting your time if that's what you are looking from in madden.