25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone
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I didn't like the vision cone because it doesn't really represent the difference in QBs. I.e. Brady doesn't "see more of the field" than Boller or Jamarcus Russell. Brady isn't better at throwing without looking, nor can he throw without looking to more of the field, etc. To me, it's not more realistic; it's just a different kind of unrealism.
It's reading coverages and making adjustments on the fly that's different. It's switching reads and looking around the field (not ability to see the field) that's different. Guys like Brady know where to look for their targets and are mentally quick in doing it and thinking on the fly as well as staying composed when the play breaks down.
That could be represented by doing away with the button-throwing and going back to the old Tecmo Bowl select-and-throw. Then make AWR how fast the QB changes targets. Or use tap once to "look" then again to throw (so to throw to my "Circle WR" it's tap circle, then using circle to throw the pass. If I wanted to instead throw to X, then I'd tap Circle, then tap X (looking off from Circle), and then quickly X to throw before the defense adjusts. AWR would still be the speed the QB switches targets so doing all of that sort of stuff would be easier with P. Manning because of his sky high AWR and a chore (and requiring a better OL) with someone like Tyrod Taylor.
AWR could also be a modifier to accuracy when switching targets. It wouldn't "override" or whatever other game term S/M/DAC, but accuracy when standing and throwing to one target without changing focus and doing it after looking around and seeing the new position of the target (since everyone is in motion most of the time as they run their routes and exploit what the DBs are trying to do) is different. So instead of yet another rating, use AWR as a modifier as well as the distance between targets. High enough would be small "penalty" low would make it inconsistent. Lower AWR could look from sideline to nearside numbers better than sideline to far numbers or the other sideline, etc.
Then, you could get the actual "half-field" QBs, guys who need to make only a half field read because they don't handle looking from one sideline to the other quickly and accurately enough.
The composure and such is/can be/should be handled by DPP. Sense Pressure, Tuck and Run, and Force Passes.
Vision cone didn't handle that. It made one QB see 2/3 of the field and another see a tiny slice. That's just not realistic and it doesn't add the split the field in half sort of reads because anyone could "swivel" to the other sideline without issue on top of the fact the bad QBs got more out of looking off because of defenders honing in on the cone. A wide cone meant not one really "got fooled" because they're all in the cone.Comment
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Anyone remember "read and Lead" from nfl fever. I thought that was probably the best implementation of this type of feature. It took a little getting used to but it was less intrusive and more accurate.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/eALSNYDha4U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>Last edited by jagsrock95; 08-07-2013, 03:10 PM.Comment
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Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone
THANK YOU.
All we need is a meter, or a gauge, that can be toggled on and off with set standards and trajectories for every minute element on the gauge. The ratings affect each end result and it is up to the user to adapt and make very accurate throws... DEPENDING on the rating.
With regards the vision cone, I never played 06 (was happy with 03 until 2010) and therefore can't comment but its such an eye sore... if it was implemented with a hiding of the buttons for the receivers downfield until you manually looked at them, or clicked onto them, and came with the QB actually moving his head, I'd embrace it.
Again, it just needs one of the other. Throwing meter, vision cone, something that accurately reflects how a QB operates. Of course, make it an option so people can disable it, but it's the only way to be "sim""Successful people do not celebrate in the adversity or misfortune of others."
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Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone
Anyone remember "read and Lead" from nfl fever. I thought that was probably the best implementation of this type of feature. It took a little getting used to but it was less intrusive and more accurate.
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/eALSNYDha4U" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>"Successful people do not celebrate in the adversity or misfortune of others."
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The Tortured Mind Of A Rockies Fan. In Arenado I Trust.Comment
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Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone
Or use tap once to "look" then again to throw (so to throw to my "Circle WR" it's tap circle, then using circle to throw the pass. If I wanted to instead throw to X, then I'd tap Circle, then tap X (looking off from Circle), and then quickly X to throw before the defense adjusts.
Sadly, many people never played with the feature long enough to realize that the alternate control method existed.Comment
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Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone
I remember trying it for a few games and not liking it. I turned it off and I'm glad it has not been brought back.MLB: Chicago Cubs
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I look at it as right now, it's not necessarily broken, but it sure as hell isn't good.
I wanna firstly untether the ball from the WR. When that is done, passing can finally open up. We can finally see throws fly into the dirt, sail out of bounds or actually REALISTICALLY lead a WR to a specific spot. The difference is that the WR will need to be able to see th ball to make a play on it. It will also mean that the pass will need to be thrown in such a way that the WR will be able to do so. You can't always bullet pass because it may fly beyond your target. Using touch and placement will be the key. Which now throws up the real issue of how the ball actually comes out of the QBs hands.
Just pressing a button, either hard or tapping it does not offer any realistic representation of passing.
A gauge, like the passing gauges in FIFA can be used to help determine what sort of pass comes out. As I mentioned in the original post, it is dependent on the route, the QBs rating and a small amount of the human Player's skill.
Once these mechanics are established I think that something akin to the cone, such as a hidden cone that requires you to cycle through your targets before you 'pull the trigger' which the speed of the cycling between targets is determined by the players' awareness rating, will be more successful and less of a contentious issue.
I think the disagreements we have over the cone stem from just how fundamentally easy it is to pass once you have determined where the ball is going. It doesn't matter if you use the cone or not, because if you can throw the ball accurately with every QB, ad there is no differentiation between each QB in this regard, we will still know that the passing system in Madden sucks.
The QB cone is the painkiller for the migraine caused by a concussion (or something - excuse the analogy lol). A holistic approach is required, putting things that appear sim over a fundamentally unsim passing mechanic will still frustrate sim heads while additionally frustrating the pick up and play crowds, which as we all know is something EA refuse to allow to happen.Comment
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Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone
With no competition it was a easy decision.Comment
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Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone
Anyone remember "read and Lead" from nfl fever. I thought that was probably the best implementation of this type of feature. It took a little getting used to but it was less intrusive and more accurate.
<iframe src="//www.youtube.com/embed/eALSNYDha4U" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="315" width="420"></iframe>NFL 2k5 When Sept. Ends.
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Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone
How does the vision cone represent this ability?
It's not literal vision (no QB sees only such a sliver of the field). It's knowing where the receivers are at any point in time.
The vision cone didn't represent that. It just made the bad QBs blind. That's not realistic."Some people call it butterflies, but to him, it probably feels like pterodactyls in his stomach." --Plesac in MLB18Comment
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It wasn't ever meant to represent how much of the field each QB saw, but how much of what they saw that they were able to process and react to... Jamarcus Russell could see that WR streaking up the sideline but not much else, so would throw it to him... Peyton Manning not only sees the WR, but also the CB underneath and the safety coming across from centre field for the pick, so won't throw it...Comment
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Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone
How does one QB see more of the field than the other?
How does the vision cone represent this ability?
It's not literal vision (no QB sees only such a sliver of the field). It's knowing where the receivers are at any point in time.
The vision cone didn't represent that. It just made the bad QBs blind. That's not realistic.
Is it true that both QB's see (are looking at) the same physical field (the green grass)? Yeah , probably, but are they making the same reads? Are they seeing the same recievers get open during the play? Are they making the same pre play adjustments/reads (breaking down man/zone coverage).
I would think not.
As far as the cone goes against the CPU, I dunno, I'm playing with the Raiders now and if Matt Flynn isn't getting sacked or hit, my guys usually drop the pass.
HOWEVER, in the past 2 days I have had 3, 1.5 hr long games against Human oppenents and I can say with out a doubt the cone brings a welcome level of realism.
You HAVE to plant your feet.
You HAVE to lead your receivers.
You HAVE to make a good read (i.e. not across the field left to right or vice-versa)
You HAVE to stay in the pocket (it actually forms)
OR ELSE you RISK throwing an errant pass, a wounded duck, a grounder, or fumbling.
I can understand most people not wanting this level of realism, but it stands as a long lingering issue with Madden games, as it was once AN OPTION for those brave enough to try. And for Sim heads like me. This is a feature I would love to see re enter the series.
**Playing Madden 08 PC Modded rosters and 360 controllers."Life is not hard, it is you who is soft" - TUF BrazilComment
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Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone
Is it true that both QB's see (are looking at) the same physical field (the green grass)? Yeah , probably, but are they making the same reads? Are they seeing the same recievers get open during the play? Are they making the same pre play adjustments/reads (breaking down man/zone coverage).
I would think not.
The cone doesn't break down coverages. The cone doesn't make any reads. It just let's one QB see more of the physical field than the other.
The vision cone doesn't emulate ability to make reads at all. How does putting the cone on the receiver make the read? It just meant the QB is "looking at" the receiver so his accuracy is higher. The user is making the read and deciding where to put the cone. The cone isn't reading or allowing the QB to read anything.
How does it emulate the quickness the QB can adjust? It just adjusted as fast as the user could shift the cone, not based on the QB's abilities. The user is still making the presnap adjustments so the cone is just having the QB look somewhere (seeing the physical field), and the QB's abilities didn't alter that success.
Jamarcus Russell and Tom Brady can make the same reads with the vision cone. Russell might just need a faster user - but, assuming the skill is there, he's able to do the same thing as Brady, negating any difference and any realistic separation between the two."Some people call it butterflies, but to him, it probably feels like pterodactyls in his stomach." --Plesac in MLB18Comment
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Re: 25 Days of Madden: The Vision Cone
How does the vision cone represent any of that?
The cone doesn't break down coverages. The cone doesn't make any reads. It just let's one QB see more of the physical field than the other.
The vision cone doesn't emulate ability to make reads at all. How does putting the cone on the receiver make the read? It just meant the QB is "looking at" the receiver so his accuracy is higher. The user is making the read and deciding where to put the cone. The cone isn't reading or allowing the QB to read anything.
How does it emulate the quickness the QB can adjust? It just adjusted as fast as the user could shift the cone, not based on the QB's abilities. The user is still making the presnap adjustments so the cone is just having the QB look somewhere (seeing the physical field), and the QB's abilities didn't alter that success.
Jamarcus Russell and Tom Brady can make the same reads with the vision cone. Russell might just need a faster user - but, assuming the skill is there, he's able to do the same thing as Brady, negating any difference and any realistic separation between the two.
The user is the awareness. The user makes all the reads. Why even put a monkey wrench in that process?Comment
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