Rushing up the middle is broken and overpowered. We need EA to fix the USER rushing. - Operation Sports Forums

Rushing up the middle is broken and overpowered. We need EA to fix the USER rushing.

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  • BrianU
    MVP
    • Nov 2008
    • 1565

    #1

    Rushing up the middle is broken and overpowered. We need EA to fix the USER rushing.

    9/7 Update: After playing more and more it is becoming clear that HB Iso is much easier to gain yardage on compared to other running plays. There is no risk calling that play the minimum yards gained is 4 every time. Please fix or give us back our sliders to fix it.




    Last year I made a thread pleading with EA to patch the AI in CCM. Out of the box it was clear that the AI in CCM was different from Play Now. The sliders did not even work the same. We got lots of replys, tweeted the devs, and it got patched and fixed. They deserve credit for listening and being responsive. It was a really good feeling to see community action work.

    It is a new year and a new game. The first impressions have been mostly positive. The problem with impressions is we all WANT a good football game so we are going to lean towards optimism. Most of us are football fans first and video game fans second. There is much improved with the gameplay. My favorite features are how INTs are only caught if the defender actually has his eyes on the ball. I also like how the running back does not fall on his butt after running into the offensive line, but puts his hand out. The devs must watch a lot of Jets football.

    There is a major, game breaking issue however for those of us who enjoy user vs cpu. The problem is the USER rushing up the middle, and not as bad but still worrisome rushing outside. It is an issue for a few reason that I will break down:

    1. There is no block shedding. The offensive line ALWAYS gets a strong push. there is zero risk of being blown up in the backfield.

    2. When you are tackled you almost ALWAYS fall forwards for an extra 2-3 yards every play. Again there is no risk in running the ball. The minimum amount of yards you gain is 3 every play.

    3. I like the feature when the running back places his hand in the offensive line's back and continues forwards, but it just adds the to the issue. It removes the risk of running inside that was there last year now you can run into your own players and still gain 3-4 yards.

    4. Not as horrible but still a bit of an issue is rushing outside. The problem here is how good the WR's are at holding blocks. They litereally all block like Pro bowl fullbacks. This cannot be remedied because we do not have a block shedding slider.

    So what do we want EA to do to fix this? We need our offline sliders back. We need the blockshedding slider to fix issue 1 and we need the breaktackles slider to fix issue 2. Without being able to adjust those the USER rushing will remain a joke once you get to a certain level of skill.

    It is not as apparent to see the issue in the context of a game. If you do the following you will see how unacceptable it is.

    Pick I form - HB Iso (it can be any run up the middle but this is the most basic.)

    Push forwards

    Gain 3-4 yards, first down after first down, and score a TD at will.

    Sliders are irrelevant. The running back you use and the defense you face and the playbook they use is irrelevant. I have tried the hardest sliders with the worst RB vs the best defense and can recreate this scenario every time, and you could too. It should NOT be possible. There should be options to make the running game harder like it was last year. There is no risk to rushing and you cannot create any. Using Jarrods black set (The hardest sliders on the forum) on All-Madden I run for 4 yards MINIMUM against any defense even when they have 8 in the box or are in a goal line formation. That is not an exaggeration. There is no reason for me to punt on 4th and 1/2/3 because I know I will get the first down 90% of the time. There is no way that would happen in the NFL, play calling is a game of percentages. The risk of being stuffed at the line for no gain is not there. The only risk is you will run for 4 yards minimum, even on the hardest sliders with run block 0 on All-Madden. We can't tune anything to increase the difficulty to a realistic level. We want our sliders back.

    I know some people use gameplans on offense, but just knowing in the back of your mind that when you get an inside run called it's guaranteed to give you 4 yards is not football. You will never lose yards, get blown up in the backfield, or tackled at the line unless you do something atrocious like using a poorly timed spin move.

    This was not an issue last year. Everyone knows Jarrods black set is the hardest of all the sliders. Last year I threw my controller in frustration at random walls because of getting blown up in the backfield. But I like that that is possible. It made you have to call a variety of plays to get the run game going and felt like a chess match. It meant I could adjust the sliders and make it harder when I got better at rushing. Knowing I could make it omgimpossible difficulty was nice to have. This year that ceiling is not there. You cannot make it harder.

    I understand and accept that the game is geared towards online play. I have no issue with that, I want Madden to be successful and sell lots of copies and EA make lots of money so it continues getting better. This year was a big step forward in every area. However we the user vs CPU gamers are always getting the short end of the stick. It happened last year with the CCM AI, and again this year, they took away our sliders. The most important ones! We need to get EA's attention again and get this patched. You may not see the issue now, but when you get better you will reach a point where there is no more challenge. There needs to be a risk to the user rushing game that is not there. Please reply and get this to the top and tweet EA.




    Please do not spam them. Be thoughtful and respectful and succinct when addressing them. A simple link to this thread and a few words is all you need. All we can do is get their attention and hope they will respond as positively to us this year as they did last year. Thank you for reading.

    EDIT: If any devs do check this post out I would also like to mention if we had the ability to assign custom playbooks/gameplans to CPU teams in CFM that would be highly appreciated too. I know that might causes issues and require lots of programming so I did not focus on that. The primary goal is to fix the running game but if we could create how the CPU picks plays that would be a very amazing addition. You would see the community here come out with some really solid effort I have no doubt. Combined with 32 team control and Madden Share it feels like the perfect time to let us have full control over the CPU's play calling tendencies. When you go into a teams Scheme menu you can assign them other teams default playbooks but the custom playbooks are not listed. If it is something that requires a great effort that is understandable but if it was a simple oversight it would be very welcome to have that option available as well. The more customization the better. Give us the tools and we will tune the game to play how we all wish. I have no doubt you would see great community work in that front just as you see with sliders.

    Thank you for the effort you put into the game this year. It is clearly the best of the generation and gives me personally optimism for future editions. Also thank you for your response last year to the Play Now vs CCM AI complaints we brought up. We are not the largest play base but we are your most passionate fans. I know that USER vs CPU does not sell copies but we need some loving too. The work to franchise mode over the last few years that Josh has done is outstanding. It is just hard to get into it when you see some glaring problems. We all love football and want to get our fix. To see some of these smaller gameplay issues undermine that is a shame and should be corrected. Thanks for the improvements you have made and giving us more each year!
    Last edited by BrianU; 09-07-2013, 10:46 AM.
  • ECPackers
    Rookie
    • Dec 2010
    • 73

    #2
    Re: Rushing up the middle is broken and overpowered. We need EA to fix the USER rushi

    what kind of sliders have you tried?

    rushing up the middle works well for me, as the packers, who are bad at rushing, with my current sliders, i'm getting around 3.5-4.5 YPC with eddy lacy, which i consider to be pretty accurate for a packers RB...



    my trouble is rush defense... i can hold the CPU to 4-5YPC, but they always seem to break a 30-50yd run, once per game or so.

    Comment

    • orion523
      All Star
      • Aug 2007
      • 6711

      #3
      Re: Rushing up the middle is broken and overpowered. We need EA to fix the USER rushi

      I tried this out in Practice mode using A&S sliders with threshold up to 80 and I'm sorry Brian but I didn't see an issue. I ran the I formation Iso play out of the Eagles playbook against the Redskins defense and the success/failure of the play was widely varied depending on the defensive play called. In no way did I feel it was a "Money" play so to speak. If needed I was going to take it a step further and run the play against different defenses and record each result, but I just didn't find it necessary. Sorry bud, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one.

      Comment

      • tril
        MVP
        • Nov 2004
        • 2915

        #4
        Re: Rushing up the middle is broken and overpowered. We need EA to fix the USER rushi

        agreed. the running game is overpowered.
        running up the middle is easy like the original psoter said, and running to the weak side is also a tad bit over powered.
        defense overall needs to be patched.
        As it stands right now the game is too offensive heavy especially with the run game. There was only 1 game where I had only run for 46 yards on 15 carries. all the other games were 150+ yards per game on 15-20 carries. all tehe games were on all pro or all madden.

        Comment

        • Jarodd21
          Hall Of Fame
          • Dec 2010
          • 10569

          #5
          Re: Rushing up the middle is broken and overpowered. We need EA to fix the USER rushi

          Yeah the USER rushing is definitely overpowered.. The blockshedding up front is terrible, outside running is easy, and the read option is overpowered too due to guys not getting off the block. It's so obvious I can't see how it's not noticed by some people. I can get almost every other area to play tough besides the CPUs run defense and it didn't help that they took away rush reaction and blockshedding slider that could have helped these issues. Taking away the pass rushing slider has been huge too.. The Devs definitely need to know about these issues and it needs to be patched for guys who are having too easy of a time running the ball..

          You guys who aren't having these issues should keep enjoying the game and there really isn't no need to come in here and kill the momentum we are trying to create to make the game more tougher and enjoyable for some of us. We need the run defensive sliders to be tougher.
          https://forums.operationsports.com/f...n-sliders.html

          PSN: Jarodd21

          Comment

          • The JareBear
            Be Good To One Another
            • Jul 2010
            • 11574

            #6
            Re: Rushing up the middle is broken and overpowered. We need EA to fix the USER rushi

            Originally posted by Jarodd21
            Yeah the USER rushing is definitely overpowered.. The blockshedding up front is terrible, outside running is easy, and the read option is overpowered too due to guys not getting off the block. It's so obvious I can't see how it's not noticed by some people. I can get almost every other area to play tough besides the CPUs run defense and it didn't help that they took away rush reaction and blockshedding slider that could have helped these issues. Taking away the pass rushing slider has been huge too.. The Devs definitely need to know about these issues and it needs to be patched for guys who are having too easy of a time running the ball..

            You guys who aren't having these issues should keep enjoying the game and there really isn't no need to come in here and kill the momentum we are trying to create to make the game more tougher and enjoyable for some of us. We need the run defensive sliders to be tougher.
            Yes. CPU run defense and pass rush, especially with how they just play patty cake and don't shed blocks, needs a patch
            "Successful people do not celebrate in the adversity or misfortune of others."

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            • BrianU
              MVP
              • Nov 2008
              • 1565

              #7
              Re: Rushing up the middle is broken and overpowered. We need EA to fix the USER rushi

              Just like last year I don't understand the mindset of people who are saying this is not an issue..

              Any effort to make the game harder should be supported. We aren't asking to make it harder for you we want it harder for us. You can still use the same sliders and get the same gameplay you are using now. More options on how to play = we all win. That is why The Show is so applauded, they have 5 control schemes for hitting/pitching that can be tuned to get the experience you want.

              I am using the Jets vs the Pats in CFM. I am watching my offensive line push their defensive line backwards EVERY rush attempt. There is no counter. How are people not seeing this? They literally push them backwards and I run for 4 yards a pop. I feel like I am hallucinating, must have been the pancakes I ate this morning.

              Comment

              • StumpyJones
                Rookie
                • Jul 2007
                • 177

                #8
                Re: Rushing up the middle is broken and overpowered. We need EA to fix the USER rushi

                My run game is iffy. I can get some runs up the middle and sometimes I get cutback lanes, but I've also had DT's and DE's shed blocks as soon as I get to the line, especially when I'm playing a user. My only issues with the running game are (1) smaller backs and QB's trucking All-Pro defenders and (2) outside blocking getting 100% seals and holding (WR's pancaking LB's or blocking them for quite a while).
                Filling recruiting boards? Do something useful and read a book.

                Comment

                • Franchise408
                  Banned
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 2032

                  #9
                  Re: Rushing up the middle is broken and overpowered. We need EA to fix the USER rushi

                  OP I get the same results in online play as well, it's not just offline.

                  Been getting some community games in with my league before we start our online CFM, and the success I have running the ball is just astonishing. I've had drives where I literally just run the ball the entire way down the field without calling a single pass, and drive all the way down for a TD. It's ridiculous how overpowered the run blocking is in this game.

                  Comment

                  • Kramer5150
                    Fear Me
                    • Dec 2002
                    • 7345

                    #10
                    Re: Rushing up the middle is broken and overpowered. We need EA to fix the USER rushi

                    This is the same issue Matt and myself encountered during our slider sessions for NCAA....unfortunately, the initial find was exactly the same...Olinemen would get a crazy push up front,and the defense simply would not disengage from their blocks.

                    The early way we corrected this was through Oline edits....now I understand that this is not a favorable way of "fixing" the issue,but it is what we had to do to stop the crazy blocking...(lower RB to 60-65)

                    I was debating doing this for my franchise,but I'll have to see if we can edit attributes inside of franchise mode like we could in a Dynasty in NCAA.

                    Like I mentioned though...the oline edits are a last resort,and I completely understand those that don't want to do it....but until EA mentions something in regards to a patch,this may be the way I go about it...at least temporarily.
                    People are for reviews if it backs their argument, and against them when they don't.
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                    • friscob
                      MVP
                      • Jun 2013
                      • 0

                      #11
                      Re: Rushing up the middle is broken and overpowered. We need EA to fix the USER rushi

                      Originally posted by Franchise408
                      OP I get the same results in online play as well, it's not just offline.

                      Been getting some community games in with my league before we start our online CFM, and the success I have running the ball is just astonishing. I've had drives where I literally just run the ball the entire way down the field without calling a single pass, and drive all the way down for a TD. It's ridiculous how overpowered the run blocking is in this game.
                      I do this online all the time. Might call 1 pass play the entire drive that usually gashes the D b/c he's selling out to stop the run. Offline w/ the sliders I've been using I'm only averaging around 100-125 yds a game which seems pretty realistic. DE's and OLB's shed blocks at the perfect moment a lot of the time to make tackles around the LOS
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                      • Armor and Sword
                        The Lama
                        • Sep 2010
                        • 21551

                        #12
                        Re: Rushing up the middle is broken and overpowered. We need EA to fix the USER rushi

                        If you guys can get this patched....that would be a win win. I see the obvious push up front....but I am not getting it every single running play I call.

                        But no question....it's in there. It is an obvious thing.


                        My fear though is they nerf it so much we lose the wonderful interactions and like I have said...in my games I am getting off blocks sometimes using the sticks and I feel like I am in a real trench war. I have had instances of shedding my block and wrapping up the RB behind the line....I have had instances of shedding the block going laterally to the stretch or pitch and tripping up or hitting the RB enough for my LB to clean up.


                        Yeah...the running game is powerful.....but I am still getting great games.


                        The read option is crazy powerful. And my fear is online leagues will have to really come down hard on that being abused. because it is easy to rip off chunks and chunks of yards with a decent not even good just decent running QB. Another money play this year.


                        2 clear cut money plays:

                        Read option (QB keeper)
                        Curls

                        It's there. I see it. But......I love the game. LOL.
                        If it can be patched effectively without ruining the great flow of this game by all means.


                        But please do not make the game nothing but an uphill fight to gain 4 yards and a pile of dust. BORING BORING BORING.


                        Sorry thats not Madden Football.


                        That is Big 10 football circa 1960.


                        Todays NFL is lot's of scoring, big plays and action.....that is the reality of todays NFL and Madden is an offensive show. Playing good defense is a challenge and...it can be done. Pre-snap adjustments, calling the right zones (zones work this year....I have seen plenty of nice sneaky drop backs and picks in zones) if your not getting a pass rush....I don't care what zone you have....the WR will find a soft spot and the QB will have time to deliver. If you get a pass rush....your going to succeed a lot more.
                        Disguise Cushion has worked for me too sometimes. So many adjustments you can make that can work...or backfire. I think some people don't know as much about football as they think....purple zones, spy, crash, CB Roll Blitz...there are tons of different coverages, blitz packages, zones, stunts...so much. There is a lot at our disposal. It's all about making the right call against the right package on the other side.


                        And I have gotten some great defensive games this year too. Striking that balance is a tough thing to do in this game.....I am just making the best of it.


                        In todays NFL a great defensive game would be 17-10.


                        If you guys can get's EA attention.....yeah that is awesome. Because M13 was trash. And your voices got the AI to at least be back to M12's level (actually better this year IMO than M12). Maddens AI is the best it has ever been on this version (not saying much but it is the best). It is making for a great playing experience offline and online as my AI teammates are far smarter than they ever have been in the past.


                        Keep up the good fight.
                        Last edited by Armor and Sword; 09-04-2013, 02:26 PM.
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                        • Robrain
                          Rookie
                          • Apr 2013
                          • 220

                          #13
                          Re: Rushing up the middle is broken and overpowered. We need EA to fix the USER rushi

                          I turned my franchise's offense into a power running game and the Iso play is my bread and butter with a power RB. But it really depends on what the defense does. You have to know how to audible depending on how the defense lines up.

                          The CPU defense will totally start going into this configuration where they have 3 guys stacked over your center. The Iso play doesn't work so hot once they do that.

                          However, that leaves them open to passes or off tackle runs. But you have to have the awareness to audible to those plays, or mirror the play to the opposite side.

                          All in all, I think it's powerful, but not necessarily broken. I've definitely been stopped multiple times by the CPU Defense on All-Pro without adjusting any sliders.

                          I thought the push my O-line was getting was because I drafted a bunch of Big Mauler types since my scheme is Power Run.

                          Comment

                          • BrianU
                            MVP
                            • Nov 2008
                            • 1565

                            #14
                            Re: Rushing up the middle is broken and overpowered. We need EA to fix the USER rushi

                            Originally posted by Robrain
                            I turned my franchise's offense into a power running game and the Iso play is my bread and butter with a power RB. But it really depends on what the defense does. You have to know how to audible depending on how the defense lines up.

                            The CPU defense will totally start going into this configuration where they have 3 guys stacked over your center. The Iso play doesn't work so hot once they do that.

                            However, that leaves them open to passes or off tackle runs. But you have to have the awareness to audible to those plays, or mirror the play to the opposite side.

                            All in all, I think it's powerful, but not necessarily broken. I've definitely been stopped multiple times by the CPU Defense on All-Pro without adjusting any sliders.

                            I thought the push my O-line was getting was because I drafted a bunch of Big Mauler types since my scheme is Power Run.
                            The CPU does not adjust to your playcalling. Check out their gameplans. They pick from a random selection of 20 plays based on the personnel you bring in. Normal = 2 WR set, Nickel = 3 WR set, Trips = 3 WR on one side set, etc.. You are giving them too much credit. I can call Iform HB Iso 30 times in a row and pickup 4 yards each time because my offensive line are all godzilla apparently and push the dline backwards. We need this patched it's terrible. I guess the Jets are gonna rush for 4000 yards this year if their representation in the game is accurate.

                            Comment

                            • Hiro1
                              MVP
                              • Sep 2009
                              • 1246

                              #15
                              Re: Rushing up the middle is broken and overpowered. We need EA to fix the USER rushi

                              When people reply to threads like this I really wish they'd state variables ex.:

                              Teams used
                              Difficulty
                              Sliders
                              User vs user(CPU)"

                              It would help paint a better picture.
                              Psn: Plex-07

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