Operation Sports - Press Row Podcast: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen with Vic Lugo

[Dogslax41]

Re: Operation Sports - Press Row Podcast: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen with Vic Lugo

Graphics won't take a big leap? Yeah, maybe not for the madden team! Has he even seen some of these other games?

We were clearly lied to with that E3 footage. I don't trust anything anyone from this team tries to sell us. They've lied to us so much, I have to take everything else as a lie at this point.

We saw the MNF videos, where was this true step, 1000+ animations in those videos? Give me a break .


Sent from the Dungeon Of Doom using Tapatalk

Agreed. While they don't have to fall on their sword, a mea culpa would be nice since its pretty clear that they used the bait and switch marketing again. EA really is working hard to erode any semblance of trust the market has in them. I understand inflating your marketing strategy by over stating the impact certain improvements make on the game, but they really need to be taken to task for what boils down to essentially lying about their product. Because releasing a video like E3 that says actual gameplay and then releasing a game that looks nothing like it and not saying a word is BS.

At least come out, own it and say, "we really tried to hit the E3 gameplay target but we didn’t feel we could get there in time and still have a complete full featured game at launch." People may not all understand but at least they won't feel like they were intentionally deceived.

[splff3000]

Re: Operation Sports - Press Row Podcast: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen with Vic Lugo

Vic also addressed replays for those who love to critique them, no more floaty feet. The most interesting part was Vic saying you're not going to see a big graphical jump. People have said this, but man I look at those 2k14 pics side by jump and that's a very bump leap in graphics. So i'm not a believer in that school of thought. I guess we may not be getting what we saw at E3, and that would be very disappointing. These consoles are more powerful.

IMO, this is good news. That means they're not trying to use most( or all) of their resources on graphics and stadium design like it seems they did with Madden 06 on the 360. Hopefully, this means that most of the resources were put to gameplay and things like that.

I'll be making cliff notes on this in the next hour. Anyone have anything in specific that they are wanting to know about in regards to gameplay? I asked Rich to ask Victor some questions so I'm curious to see what he had to say about them.

I can't wait to see them. Yeah, I'm interested in pretty much anything gameplay related. I'm tired of hearing about art and graphics. I want to hear about the gameplay.

Good show. Says the biggest thing is the game will feel different. OK, but I'm still wanting to know what happened between E3 visuals and MNF simulation visuals.

As much as the statement about "visuals not changing much" makes me feel good, this one does nothing for me. In fact, it kinda worries me a little. It means EA is still using the same tag lines of previous years. How many times over the years have we been told pre-release, that you have to "feel" the game to see the difference then we get it and it "feels" the same as previous maddens. The "you have to feel it" line from EA has gotten pretty old.

Hopefully, the reason for the change in the visuals is due to processing power ie they are using more power for gameplay so they had to reduce the visuals some from their initial projections. Personally, the game can look exactly like this gen, with dramatically upgraded gameplay and I'd be a very happy camper. I will admit, I am very curious to see what this game actually looks like graphically and gameplay wise. EA needs to stop with all the trailers and give us some raw gameplay footage.

[dghustla]

Re: Operation Sports - Press Row Podcast: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen with Vic Lugo

Agreed. While they don't have to fall on their sword, a mea culpa would be nice since its pretty clear that they used the bait and switch marketing again. EA really is working hard to erode any semblance of trust the market has in them. I understand inflating your marketing strategy by over stating the impact certain improvements make on the game, but they really need to be taken to task for what boils down to essentially lying about their product. Because releasing a video like E3 that says actual gameplay and then releasing a game that looks nothing like it and not saying a word is BS.

At least come out, own it and say, "we really tried to hit the E3 gameplay target but we didn’t feel we could get there in time and still have a complete full featured game at launch." People may not all understand but at least they won't feel like they were intentionally deceived.

I completely agree with you. The Coachglass video looks better than the MNF video but no where near the trailer and no where near E3. I think EA needs to just stop with the pre-rendered trailers. If they want to highlight graphics and true step, just use gameplay to show how it looks and happens in the actual game. it doesn't need to be 10 minutes of gameplay. just replace the canned screens and use the game.

[Dogslax41]

Re: Operation Sports - Press Row Podcast: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen with Vic Lugo

I completely agree with you. The Coachglass video looks better than the MNF video but no where near the trailer and no where near E3. I think EA needs to just stop with the pre-rendered trailers. If they want to highlight graphics and true step, just use gameplay to show how it looks and happens in the actual game. it doesn't need to be 10 minutes of gameplay. just replace the canned screens and use the game.

You really would have thought they had learned that after the Vick/Strahan video from E3 2005. What part of releasing a pre-rendered video worked out for them back then and why in the world would they just do it all over again?

[jpdavis82]

Re: Operation Sports - Press Row Podcast: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen with Vic Lugo

Interview recorded October 16th 2013

First thing Victor says that he wants people to know, is that they have taken advantage of the power and resources this console offers to give people the most realistic simulation to date.

The majority of what Victor worked on, is based around the ball carrier and locomotion, he's the product lead for True Step and precision modifier on next gen.

Rich: What is True Step and how will I notice it and how will it impact the game vs what I see on the 360/PS3?

Victor: True Step is our new step based locomotion system. Any kind of old school game you played on gen 3 and since the days of Mario 64, didn't take into account speed and momentum as it should and mimic the steps that a human would take.

Rather than using a traditional run system, collaborated with FIFA to motion capture 1000 new run animations, calculating speed and momentum per step. The idea of a turn on a dime goes away, gives a more realistic slow down and cut. This affects both sides of the ball.

With new proprietary tools inside of Ignite, that are shared with FIFA, have the ability to create realistic run curves and acceleration curves and test them before they are implemented into the game. Had an adjustment phase where it looked perfect at one point but responsiveness didn't match what you are capable of as a player, so went back and modeled stutter steps and slow downs to be responsive, wasn't easy, but feels good at this point and once people get their hands on it, they won't want to go back.

Started talking about this idea before Madden 13 shipped, captured some steps for testing early in the cycle. Captured some more in Fall 2012 and really started working on it shortly after that.

Took into consideration early how ratings would matter and work with backs who are more skilled in agility vs power. Were able to get a lot more steps from different kinds of people due to Ignite's technology.

These results were only capable with the new tech, would have slowed the game down and turned it into a "turn based RPG" with old technology.

The game is already finished and being sent out.

Rich: Is this True Step something that people will only notice in replays or slow motion or how will it jump out at people?

Victor: I believe you will notice in both cases. Replays will look great, guys feel weightier and have a better sense of momentum even in slow motion. Suggests people do a side by side comparison when they get the game, huge difference. Outside of replays, the game will have a completely different feel, guys will seem smarter when running, feel of the running is even greater and more realistic than the look of it IMO, art team would probably say just the opposite, but that's how I feel about it.

Game is more of a slow burn, not a massive jump initially, graphically, upon first glance, but there's much more happening at the AI and locomotion level.

I feel like people are in need of better more realistic gameplay as a whole with gen 4 and not as much of the graphical leap as you saw from PS1 to PS2, there will still be some impressive things you see, but where we are in the gaming world, is focusing on the increased power to do things with gameplay that were never possible before, I.E. more stuff being blown up in Battlefield 4.

Player Sense

Rich: If I'm on the near sideline and I throw a pass and my guy is on the near sideline and he's open and steps out of bounds, is this something that the new player sense AI is going to address?

Victor: Yes your example is a good example of what you will see and we want guys to do more intelligent things on the field, and you saw some of it on gen 3, ball carriers putting hands on lineman, but with the additional memory we were able to do more of it, you'll see guys hurdle over players that fall in front of them, guys will straddle the sideline, point for blocks in front of them, on blitzes you'll see guys put their hands on lineman to step around them. It's all over the place now and to me it enhances the production value and overall experience. Want to see more and more of it in the future.

You'll see it in replays a lot, should allow you to seamlessly enjoy gameplay without some of the issues with physics we saw in Madden 13 and 25 on gen 3 especially.

Rich: Is blocking going to be better and can it be better without breaking the game due to overpowering the defense?

Victor: First of all yes, it is significantly better, Clint's goal is not to create blocking schemes that will work for the game, it's to make realistic blocking work in the game. Been working hand in hand with Clint to create realistic running and run blocking that opens up holes for the runner to run through.

Rich: On gen 3, with D-lineman, feels like I'm getting sucked into animations with offensive lineman, is this no longer the case on gen 4?

Victor: Based on what I've seen yes, I would talk to Clint more about it, but now you see more realistic things on both sides of the ball and have more control.

Rich: What from a physics perspective are we going to see on Gen 4 with 4x the power with Ignite?

Victor: We are collaborating a lot more with other teams and you'll get a much more polished experience with physics on gen 4. We spent time getting rid of as many bugs as we could and you'll see better looking characters as they fall and run and make contact with other players, reduce silliness on the field. Force impact was retuned to create a better looking truck and stiff arm, a lot of nice looking hit sticks as well.

In gen 4, the LT slows you down a lot more realistically with the precision modifier, very realistic, feels great. With True Step, we've added more steps for the precision modifier. Skills trainer will have some new drills that are specific to gen 4, but all drills will feel differently than they did on gen 3 due to True Step and the gen 4 technology. Precision cuts, side and running back locomotion, turns will be different.

When you're playing defense make sure you learn to slow down and strafe and adjust to the movements of the ball carrier and the differences on gen 4 on both sides of the ball not just on offense.

[dghustla]

Re: Operation Sports - Press Row Podcast: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen with Vic Lugo

This after Mr. Lugo states don't expect to see a big graphical change. 2K obviously wants to be great. Madden team, not at all.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/GJlptY6G4SQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Video looks amazing no doubt. But please don't it man lol. Lets try to keep this one about the podcast and interview.

[howboutdat]

Re: Operation Sports - Press Row Podcast: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen with Vic Lugo

This after Mr. Lugo states don't expect to see a big graphical change. 2K obviously wants to be great. Madden team, not at all.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/GJlptY6G4SQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

welcome to the EA spin machine...... dont expect much different in graphics ( but yet notice every detailed blade of grass) ... sounds like to me they spent too much time on grass graphics... and if the graphics arent any better what about gameplay , glitches fixed? anything good? im not feeling to hopeful at this point. man why couldnt that lawsuit have included madden ,so they couldnt make it for 5 years also.....

[adub88]

Re: Operation Sports - Press Row Podcast: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen with Vic Lugo

Video looks amazing no doubt. But please don't it man lol. Lets try to keep this one about the podcast and interview.

Lol, sorry I had to, go ahead and delete this post. Don't wanna de-rail the OG topic.

[Dogslax41]

Re: Operation Sports - Press Row Podcast: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen with Vic Lugo

If what he says about True Step is in fact true that would go a long way. FIFA represents momentum very well this year and it would be a welcomed addition to Madden. Only one problem. NONE OF THE VIDEOS HAVE SHOWN THIS AT ALL. NOT A SINGLE ONE. We have multiple gameplay videos at this point and right now his words are directly contradicted by what we have physically seen from their game.

[dghustla]

Re: Operation Sports - Press Row Podcast: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen with Vic Lugo

Lol, sorry I had to, go ahead and delete this post. Don't wanna de-rail the OG topic.

lol I'm not a mod, just a fan like you.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Operation Sports - Press Row Podcast: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen with Vic Lugo

lets get back on topic guys, that trailer has nothing to do with this interview. We need to see actual gameplay to be able to judge these games not trailers.

Now with that being said, how do you feel about what Victor said?

I personally feel like this game will be something you have to play to really appreciate it. I'm guessing casual fans will be disappointed, but hopefully this is a sign that they are trying to cater more towards the hardcore sim fans now.

[adub88]

Re: Operation Sports - Press Row Podcast: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen with Vic Lugo

lets get back on topic guys, that trailer has nothing to do with this interview. We need to see actual gameplay to be able to judge these games not trailers.

Now with that being said, how do you feel about what Victor said?

I personally feel like this game will be something you have to play to really appreciate it. I'm guessing casual fans will be disappointed, but hopefully this is a sign that they are trying to cater more towards the hardcore sim fans now.

I agree and deleted my post. Now back to the interview. Like I said I'm just ready to see video at this point, lengthy gameplay video. From there, I think we can gauge how it might feel.

[Dogslax41]

Re: Operation Sports - Press Row Podcast: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen with Vic Lugo

lets get back on topic guys, that trailer has nothing to do with this interview. We need to see actual gameplay to be able to judge these games not trailers.

The trailer doesn't need to be discussed, but it does pertain to this interview. His comment was not to expect a big graphical jump, now if he meant only in relation to Madden then fine, but it certainly seems like he was trying to imply that next gen would not be a big graphical jump. 2K just bascially crushed that theory to dust. That is an massive jump from current gen and that is gameplay in the trailer not pre-rendered.

[dghustla]

Re: Operation Sports - Press Row Podcast: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen with Vic Lugo

I hope that player sense impacts the game more than what he stated. Pointing out to blockers and being aware of the sidelines are nice and all but that is mostly cosmetic stuff. I want players to react to what's going on around them with a sense of purpose. I want to see linebackers take a few steps forward in play action after 3 str8 runs. I want to see players biting on double moves because they are reacting not physic in coverage. I want my LBs to come down on drag routes if we've been getting killed on them all game. I want guys on blocks to reach out with the free hand and try one last attempt to grab that ball carrier running by. I want to see guys with "high motor" expending all of their stamina on a few plays and chasing down ball carriers down the field.

On 3rd and 15 I shouldn't have to tell me defense to "play the pass" and drop in their zones. The Players should know these things and if my opponent runs a play action on the down it should be ignored.

Hopefully these things will be touched on in the AI trailer.

[RateSports]

Re: Operation Sports - Press Row Podcast: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen with Vic Lugo

lets get back on topic guys, that trailer has nothing to do with this interview. We need to see actual gameplay to be able to judge these games not trailers.

Now with that being said, how do you feel about what Victor said?

I personally feel like this game will be something you have to play to really appreciate it. I'm guessing casual fans will be disappointed, but hopefully this is a sign that they are trying to cater more towards the hardcore sim fans now.

I expected most of what he said. He is in damage control mode for the negative responses to Madden Next-Gen (as blatantly evident in his theory of "you have to feel it" and "graphically, it isn't a big leap").

This is EA's only angle to play now, and I'm no where near confident in them at this point.

I actually feel bad for EA Sports because of what 2K released 43 minutes ago.