Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen Gameplay Trailer and Four More War in the Trenches Videos

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen Gameplay Trailer and Four More War in the Trenches Videos

I'm sorry no disrespect, but that is BS. I will never understand that. 2k was not a quick time event game, everybody who understood and knew how to play the game, played. It was just pretty to watch while you played. Can't say the same for Madden. Honestly I think both games had control issues, but imo, it comes down to preference. One game was not better than the other in that aspect.

Agreed. Actually, the correct way to say it would be, "Madden consumers want to play Madden. The 2k guys wanted to play football." Football != Madden in its current state. The amount of **** you have to do at each snap just to get pressure is ridiculous. Not to mention to have decent coverage. It is a somewhat fun game to play if you are in the right setting, but it's not at all realistic.

[ausar72]

60 calculations per second.

Man, they're grasping for straws at this point.

True Step?

They must have some creative brainstorming sessions at EA.

Watching EA trailers are really weird. They seem to be always spilling out all of this data about "procedural calculations of the a.i. etc..." and various marketing terms like "Tru-Step, Pro-Tak , yada, yada, yada.

Do they really think, the average NFL fan/video game player cares about all of that stuff? Maybe if you were showing it at a video game development tech conference or something it be more appropriate. But, nah, not for your main "gameplay" trailer...

Just show us the game we see on Sunday. Make it as close to the product we all know and love to watch every week, except that we are in control of the outcome of the game.

Make it feel less and less like a video game.

One way to do that is to stop talking about and showing us the code behind the game.

When I'm playing a video football game, I want to feel that I'm in the Matrix, not in Zion, staring at a bunch of code raining down my screen. - Matrix reference

I think that's where 2K gets it, and EA struggles, but it makes all of the difference in the world.

[slick589]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen Gameplay Trailer and Four More War in the Trenches Videos

If madden wants to make line play better find a way to make Jared Allen rush like Jared Allen or Chris Clemons like Chris Clemons...every player plays the exact same at every position in the game. Every tackle blocks like Orlando Pace.

There no "life" in madden, nothing makes individual players stand out.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen Gameplay Trailer and Four More War in the Trenches Videos

Pleasantly surprised by SOME of the stuff seen in these videos and even some of the stuff that I'm hearing. Still not sure of what to make of it just yet, but at the very least, Madden NG has gone from horrendous, to show me more, in just a week.

Problem is that it's hard to tell what you can actually expect in the retail build. So many conflicting pieces of evidence from video to video.

In the Eagles vid, the foot work animations look much better than the other vids. It looks like the lineman are actually taking steps and that things may be looking up. Then you see the other vids, and the footwork looks exactly like current gen, and they are sliding all over the place. Heck, even in the same Eagles vid, you can look at the footwork of the receivers and DBs and see the same wonky current gen tripe. I also see some suction and warping on the OL/DL interactions too.

This is what makes it tough to judge Madden NG. It's entirely possible that True Step is in for every player and not just runners. You can disable entire systems for different builds in order to test what you need to test if the other disabled systems are interfering in some way. So it's always difficult to tell exactly what you're gonna get. By the same token, it's also entirely possible that we will get exactly what we see in these videos and that some aspects of the game will be next gen, while the vast majority of others will be current gen like. It's tough.

All I can say is that I actually want to see more (not so much hear, though) so, there's that...

[dat swag]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen Gameplay Trailer and Four More War in the Trenches Videos

I'm not going to get too much into the 2k vs EA thing, but all I can say is from my experience I had plenty of control in 2k. I always hear people say no control, but it felt like plenty of control to me. That's just my experience with it.

I always felt like 2K made me a slave to the animation and gave me a little less control than Madden but I did not have a huge problem with that because I also felt that the football logic in 2k was better. So I could call a defense and more often than not the defense would do what it was intended to do in 2k. Whereas in Madden if I call a cov 2 to stop something in the flat I'd be scratching my head when a pass to the flat was successfully completed for a positive again.

IMO that was the give and take that separated both games. Often in 2K I felt like if I didn't allow the animation to play out I could not achieve the same animation manually. In Madden its the opposite IMO...If I want something specific to happen I have to make it happen myself.

I loved 2K because being an X and O guy that was my thing and it was less complicated to make your schemes work when you called a D. I'm not a huge fan of all the nonsense Madden makes you do to defend a simple curl route but at the same time I like knowing I have the tools at my disposal and I like having more control.

[ausar72]

I always felt like 2K made me a slave to the animation and gave me a little less control than Madden but I did not have a huge problem with that because I also felt that the football logic in 2k was better. So I could call a defense and more often than not the defense would do what it was intended to do in 2k. Whereas in Madden if I call a cov 2 to stop something in the flat I'd be scratching my head when a pass to the flat was successfully completed for a positive again.

IMO that was the give and take that separated both games. Often in 2K I felt like if I didn't allow the animation to play out I could not achieve the same animation manually. In Madden its the opposite IMO...If I want something specific to happen I have to make it happen myself.

I loved 2K because being an X and O guy that was my thing and it was less complicated to make your schemes work when you called a D. I'm not a huge fan of all the nonsense Madden makes you do to defend a simple curl route but at the same time I like knowing I have the tools at my disposal and I like having more control.

You know what's crazy, is it's going on 10 YEARS since NFL 2K5 was released.

10 YEARS!!!

The conversation is begining to sound a lot like how people discuss the old Tecmo Super Bowl games, back in the day.

Crazy!

But I'm still holding out hope that one day 2K will be allowed the opportunity to get back in the game.

[apollon42]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen Gameplay Trailer and Four More War in the Trenches Videos

You know what's crazy, is it's going on 10 YEARS since NFL 2K5 was released.

10 YEARS!!!

The conversation is begining to sound a lot like how people discuss the old Tecmo Super Bowl games, back in the day.

Crazy!

But I'm still holding out hope that one day 2K will be allowed the opportunity to get back in the game.

Tecmo Super Bowl was the ****

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen Gameplay Trailer and Four More War in the Trenches Videos

I always felt like 2K made me a slave to the animation and gave me a little less control than Madden but I did not have a huge problem with that because I also felt that the football logic in 2k was better. So I could call a defense and more often than not the defense would do what it was intended to do in 2k. Whereas in Madden if I call a cov 2 to stop something in the flat I'd be scratching my head when a pass to the flat was successfully completed for a positive again.

IMO that was the give and take that separated both games. Often in 2K I felt like if I didn't allow the animation to play out I could not achieve the same animation manually. In Madden its the opposite IMO...If I want something specific to happen I have to make it happen myself.

I loved 2K because being an X and O guy that was my thing and it was less complicated to make your schemes work when you called a D. I'm not a huge fan of all the nonsense Madden makes you do to defend a simple curl route but at the same time I like knowing I have the tools at my disposal and I like having more control.

I get what you're saying. The reality is though, that you'll never have realistic movement if you aren't "a slave to the animation" at times. You can't fall, or lose you're balance, or virtually represent momentum, without those slave animations. I think that this is what most people do not get. I'm not saying you don't specifically, I'm just saying in general.

I'm also not saying that 2K completely nails realistic movement either. Just that their philosophy for how to do realistic movement is completely sound, even if their implementation was not perfect. Whereas Tiburon has neither the right philosophy nor implementation. Unless their philosophy has changed going forward, and I'm not aware of it.

Basically it comes down to this. You want realistic movement in a game? Well, this is the only way you're going to get it.

[dat swag]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen Gameplay Trailer and Four More War in the Trenches Videos

I get what you're saying. The reality is though, that you'll never have realistic movement if you aren't "a slave to the animation" at times.

Exactly and that was the give and take that I was ok with because I agree with you wholeheartedly. I'm ok with being a slave to the animation and sacrificing a lil less control if it means the game will be solid in the logic and AI department.

Over the years Madden has become a lil more 2K-ish (i.e. QB drops & rollouts) but no way its ever going to give up its roots of being the game that sells the ability to be in control.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen Gameplay Trailer and Four More War in the Trenches Videos

Exactly and that was the give and take that I was ok with because I agree with you wholeheartedly. I'm ok with being a slave to the animation and sacrificing a lil less control if it means the game will be solid in the logic and AI department.

Over the years Madden has become a lil more 2K-ish (i.e. QB drops & rollouts) but no way its ever going to give up its roots of being the game that sells the ability to be in control.

If Tiburon is the only studio that is allowed to make a Football game for the foreseeable future, I can't tell you how wrong I hope this is lol.

It's one of the game's biggest issues. That and ANT lol. Though the way ANT was developed may have something to do with their flawed philosophy, so I'm not sure what's the chicken, and what's the egg.

[LBzrule]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen Gameplay Trailer and Four More War in the Trenches Videos

I always felt like 2K made me a slave to the animation and gave me a little less control than Madden but I did not have a huge problem with that because I also felt that the football logic in 2k was better. So I could call a defense and more often than not the defense would do what it was intended to do in 2k. Whereas in Madden if I call a cov 2 to stop something in the flat I'd be scratching my head when a pass to the flat was successfully completed for a positive again.

IMO that was the give and take that separated both games. Often in 2K I felt like if I didn't allow the animation to play out I could not achieve the same animation manually. In Madden its the opposite IMO...If I want something specific to happen I have to make it happen myself.

I loved 2K because being an X and O guy that was my thing and it was less complicated to make your schemes work when you called a D. I'm not a huge fan of all the nonsense Madden makes you do to defend a simple curl route but at the same time I like knowing I have the tools at my disposal and I like having more control.

I felt the exact opposite actually. On gen 2 I hated Madden control. I felt like the players steered like boats. It's neither here nor there at this point, that was just my experience of it back then.

[dat swag]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen Gameplay Trailer and Four More War in the Trenches Videos

Agreed. Actually, the correct way to say it would be, "Madden consumers want to play Madden. The 2k guys wanted to play football." Football != Madden in its current state. The amount of **** you have to do at each snap just to get pressure is ridiculous. Not to mention to have decent coverage. It is a somewhat fun game to play if you are in the right setting, but it's not at all realistic.

No disrespect but turning the comparison into some sort of elitist "I'm better than you" deal is not the way to say it either. There is football logic in both games. The implementation of the logic can differ greatly but claiming a 2K player has more of a football mind than Madden player is a bit juvenile.

When both game co-existed I liked both and probably played more 2k5 than Madden during those years. I think Madden was just way behind what 2K5 was doing then but now whether anyone wants to accept or acknowledge it Madden is not as bad as people claim and Madden 25 is probably their best version to date. Its nowhere near perfect or even great but Its a serviceable game, its gotten further away from the arcade nonsense (not saying it doesn't exist) and given its all we got the only thing I can do is hope that they keep making positive strides.

[royounggoku]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen Gameplay Trailer and Four More War in the Trenches Videos

You know what's crazy, is it's going on 10 YEARS since NFL 2K5 was released.

10 YEARS!!!

The conversation is begining to sound a lot like how people discuss the old Tecmo Super Bowl games, back in the day.

Crazy!

But I'm still holding out hope that one day 2K will be allowed the opportunity to get back in the game.

Lol I always thought this too but, when you think about it, it's not like the world is gonna end anytime soon. There's gonna be one day where Madden won't have the exclusive license and I will be there with controller in hand.

[Only1LT]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen Gameplay Trailer and Four More War in the Trenches Videos

I felt the exact opposite actually. On gen 2 I hated Madden control. I felt like the players steered like boats. It's neither here nor there at this point, that was just my experience of it back then.

True.

The momentum implementation that they used in Madden prior to 3rd gen was pretty bad. I do commend them for at least having some sort of momentum though, even if it was terrible.

3rd gen was when they really embraced their internet/ tourney stature and designed the game around those principles and eliminated momentum pretty much completely and it became a true twitch fest.

Movement was never realistic in Madden though and their momentum system changed very little from Genesis to the PS2/Xbox. In fact it's nearly identical. Considering Genesis is a 16bit gaming system, I think this tells you all you need to know about some of their design approaches.

[dat swag]

Re: Madden NFL 25 Next-Gen Gameplay Trailer and Four More War in the Trenches Videos

Lol I always thought this too but, when you think about it, it's not like the world is gonna end anytime soon. There's gonna be one day where Madden won't have the exclusive license and I will be there with controller in hand.

If you really break it down though...Football is just Football so once you make a game and get the logic and basic fundamentals down right there is no reason to make any major changes outside of graphics, animations and presentation. A perfect example of this is MLB The Show. So sure its 9-10 years later but its the old saying of do it right the first time and there is no need to reinvent the wheel. Madden just never got it right and is only now just trying to correct years of misdirection.

2K5 got it right that year, nailed much of the game-play logic, animations and killed it in the presentation while Madden got caught sleeping at the wheel.