2K Sports Confirms They Are Done With Baseball

[mfdplus]

A decade ago Sega Sports/ Visual Concepts was making the best, most realistic sports games out there. It has been very sad to see that company decay under Rockstar's management. And I know that maybe their ownership saved their existence back in the days when Sega reorganized. But going from a quality yearly line-up that included all the major leagues and college sports to today's output of basically just one game, it's the video game world equivalent of a superstar's fall from fame.

[Money99]

Re: 2K Sports Confirms They Are Done With Baseball

A decade ago Sega Sports/ Visual Concepts was making the best, most realistic sports games out there. It has been very sad to see that company decay under Rockstar's management. And I know that maybe their ownership saved their existence back in the days when Sega reorganized. But going from a quality yearly line-up that included all the major leagues and college sports to today's output of basically just one game, it's the video game world equivalent of a superstar's fall from fame.

Yeah, it's a real shame.
NHL2K2 and 2K3 were fantastic games. But they were developed by Treyarch who was bought by Activision, forcing 2K to hand the reigns to Kush.
Kush also took over the MLB2K franchise.

Both MLB and NHL went downhill and by the time VC took over, it was too late - which is a shame because I thought VC did a great job reviving both series.

I really do believe that given the chance to start from scratch both the NHL and MLB games could have been something special under VC.

I'm looking forward to seeing what SCEA is doing for next-gen MLB.
But I love the analog-pitching and hitters eye so much, I'm not sure I can play another ball game that doesn't have either.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: 2K Sports Confirms They Are Done With Baseball

Here's a thought. the NFL license is a hot commodity. Charge the same licensing amount to a second or third party that wants to develop an NFL football game. The NFL likes money, this way the NFL gets double or triple the amount they would get. Even more money in the bank for them.

What do you mean "charge the same licensing amount" to a second or third party? EA is paying the NFL $60M per year for exclusivity. The last I heard, Madden 25 was projected to sell about 5 million units. At $60 a unit, that means the NFL is getting approximately 20% of the gross, which is a much higher percentage than when the league was paid a percentage for each unit sold.

Sure, if the NFL allows the exclusivity deal to lapse, they can ask whatever they want from EA, 2K, or whoever, but no way in hell would anybody pay 60 million for a nonexclusive deal. The NFL might as well ask for a billion.

Exactly what I'm saying with regards to pricing. Yes, I know the current price is for exclusivity. Call the "exclusive" price a "nonexclusive" price, and allow anyone wanting to create an NFL football game, pay to play so to speak. How would you know no one would be willing to pay that amount for non-exclusivity. If something is a hot commodity, there will be buyers. There are things that are overpriced out there in the world, and people still pony up the dollars.

The NFL currently oversees more than 30 different teams throughout the year. I guess having a minimum of 2 or 3 video game developers would be simply too difficult, since controlling more than 30 teams is somehow easier. Or how about hiring someone for $150,000 to $200,000 annually to oversee the operation (which would be a mere fraction of the cost of the exclusive licenses). More money for the NFL.

I have no idea what any of this means.

Um, pretty straight forward.

One argument for only having one developer is because it's too difficult for the NFL to monitor more than one company making an NFL football video game. Having to deal with 2K and EA and Sony creating an NFL football game would be too difficult is what some might argue for why the NFL would rather deal with one single game developer. I'm saying how could it really be that difficult if the NFL is monitoring more than 30 different teams (49ers, Seahawks, Broncos, Patriots, Colts, Steelers, etc.) throughout the entire year. The NFL seriously can't manage to draft guidelines for 2 or 3 video game developers to follow when the NFL is already doing so for more than 30 teams in the league?

[kehlis]

Re: 2K Sports Confirms They Are Done With Baseball

Um, pretty straight forward.

One argument for only having one developer is because it's too difficult for the NFL to monitor more than one company making an NFL football video game. Having to deal with 2K and EA and Sony creating an NFL football game would be too difficult is what some might argue for why the NFL would rather deal with one single game developer. I'm saying how could it really be that difficult if the NFL is monitoring more than 30 different teams (49ers, Seahawks, Broncos, Patriots, Colts, Steelers, etc.) throughout the entire year. The NFL seriously can't manage to draft guidelines for 2 or 3 video game developers to follow when the NFL is already doing so for more than 30 teams in the league?

Who or where has that argument ever be made?

[Mendota]

Re: 2K Sports Confirms They Are Done With Baseball

No publisher is going to pay what EA does for Madden unless it is exclusive. More importantly, EA will not pay that much if it is not exclusive.

Strawberryshortcake's idea is based on a completely flawed premise.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: 2K Sports Confirms They Are Done With Baseball

Who or where has that argument ever be made?

Not from an official source, but it's one argument that may come up from time to time when the words "NFL" "License" "Exclusive" are used. Too much hassle or too difficult to deal with multiple companies making an NFL football, therefore the NFL chooses to go exclusive. Something to that extent. I'm simply saying the NFL is already controlling over 30 individual franchises, and comparing that to 2 or 3 video game makers. If the NFL can control over 30 teams, I pose the question of whether it really is that much of a hassle to monitor 2 or 3 developers. That is all.

No publisher is going to pay what EA does for Madden unless it is exclusive. More importantly, EA will not pay that much if it is not exclusive.

Strawberryshortcake's idea is based on a completely flawed premise.

You word your statement as if it was fact. Your statement can also be applicable to ridiculously expensive products or services in the world, and for whatever reason there are buyers.

It's a hypothetical situation. Hypothetically, for whatever reason, let say the NFL sets a non-exclusive price that is on par to the existing exclusive price tag analogous to an MSRP. Say two or three companies jump at the chance and pony up the non-exclusive price, including EA Sports. Hypothetically, wouldn't that be a good thing?

Multiple companies competing just as it is in sports. There's probably a lot or a few of flawed premises in the past that came to fruition.

[Mendota]

Re: 2K Sports Confirms They Are Done With Baseball

You word your statement as if it was fact. Your statement can also be applicable to ridiculously expensive products or services in the world, and for whatever reason there are buyers.

It's a hypothetical situation. Hypothetically, for whatever reason, let say the NFL sets a non-exclusive price that is on par to the existing exclusive price tag analogous to an MSRP. Say two or three companies jump at the chance and pony up the non-exclusive price, including EA Sports. Hypothetically, wouldn't that be a good thing?

Multiple companies competing just as it is in sports.

You need to explain how losing marketshare is worth paying the same price for the license. The reality is, EA has already forced the NFL to make some concessions to the price. It is a complete fantasy world to believe they would consider paying what they do now to compete with multiple publishers.

As for the NFL, they have plenty of experience working with multiple publishers and just one. I think they are aware of the plus and minuses of exclusive deals.

I hate exclusivity as much as anyone. But there are real world reasons for why it happens. And there are real world consequences for just paying a higher fee when the sales do not support the cost.

2K's terrible licensing deal is the main cause of all of their issues. They could go back now and develop a game for a lower cost, but they have suffered six years of constant bashing from gamers and the sports media. I don't think they believe they can sell enough copies of a good game. 2K12 and 2K13 is proof of that, because they were good games.

[Money99]

Re: 2K Sports Confirms They Are Done With Baseball

2K's terrible licensing deal is the main cause of all of their issues. They could go back now and develop a game for a lower cost, but they have suffered six years of constant bashing from gamers and the sports media. I don't think they believe they can sell enough copies of a good game. 2K12 and 2K13 is proof of that, because they were good games.

Bingo.

2K really needs to work on their brand.
Love them or hate them, EA's brand is world renown. It's like McDonald's or Nike.

2K never really tried to get on that same level. Did they even have a catchy slogan like "It's in the Game"?

I'm no marketing expert, but maybe they could have tried to rebrand their series or attach a specific athlete to each sport?
Get Jeter or Jackie Robinson, or some mega baseball star as the spokesperson for their MLB game ala Madden.

Or how about community days?

EA's games aren't always the best, but man they know how to market. 2K has done a miserable job in that department.
It's hard to fathom that at one point they had the best baseball, basketball, football and hockey game on the market and yet they did nothing to capitalize on that.

[kehlis]

Re: 2K Sports Confirms They Are Done With Baseball

Not from an official source, but it's one argument that may come up from time to time when the words "NFL" "License" "Exclusive" are used. Too much hassle or too difficult to deal with multiple companies making an NFL football, therefore the NFL chooses to go exclusive. Something to that extent. I'm simply saying the NFL is already controlling over 30 individual franchises, and comparing that to 2 or 3 video game makers. If the NFL can control over 30 teams, I pose the question of whether it really is that much of a hassle to monitor 2 or 3 developers. That is all.

So you are making up an argument that hasn't been made and then using it to support your argument?

That's laughable. It's not a hassle to monitor two or three game companies, it's really simple, that you and I agree with.

If that's your ammo your point is moot. Has nothing to do with any point you've brought up thus far.

[nemesis04]

Re: 2K Sports Confirms They Are Done With Baseball

So you are making up an argument that hasn't been made and then using it to support your argument?

That's laughable. It's not a hassle to monitor two or three game companies, it's really simple, that you and I agree with.

If that's your ammo your point is moot. Has nothing to do with any point you've brought up thus far.

Baseball did it, they had 5 or 6 going at the same time at one point.

[kehlis]

Re: 2K Sports Confirms They Are Done With Baseball

Baseball did it, they had 5 or 6 going at the same time at one point.

I agreed with it being simple...

I don't see having multiple games as an issue at all.


I'm saying this is the first time I've EVER heard that argument used. I've never seen it given as an actual reason for exclusivity other than strawberry's speculation.

[Mendota]

Re: 2K Sports Confirms They Are Done With Baseball

Bingo.

2K really needs to work on their brand.
Love them or hate them, EA's brand is world renown. It's like McDonald's or Nike.

2K never really tried to get on that same level. Did they even have a catchy slogan like "It's in the Game"?

I'm no marketing expert, but maybe they could have tried to rebrand their series or attach a specific athlete to each sport?
Get Jeter or Jackie Robinson, or some mega baseball star as the spokesperson for their MLB game ala Madden.

Or how about community days?

EA's games aren't always the best, but man they know how to market. 2K has done a miserable job in that department.
It's hard to fathom that at one point they had the best baseball, basketball, football and hockey game on the market. They did nothing to capitalize on that.

Well, they did, but EA outflanked them. They dropped the price on the NFL 2K5 to $20 at launch and cut into EA's Madden sales with a much better product. EA responded by locking up the NFL license. 2K tried tit for tat by locking EA out of baseball, but with a more friendly deal that allowed for Sony to keep making their game.

The result is the loss of cash from football and wasting resources on a sport that doesn't sell even close to what football does. Sony turned The Show into a boutique title that showed off the power of the PS3 to gamers that don't even buy baseball games. 2K doesn't have the luxury of treating their baseball game as a loss leader.

I would really like to see Microsoft use baseball to balance out what Sony has been able to do with The Show. They have the High Heat license, but I really don't want another High Heat game. It was great for its time, but its gameplay is antiquated.

I assume EA will jump in eventually, but baseball would make for a poor launch title for this gen. They just are not going to convert many Show users, regardless of how good their game is, and baseball is not a strong seller for videogames.

Going after basketball was much smarter because the sport sells so much better, and they have at least been working on it for several years now. I think they will bring MVP back, but it might not even be until 2016.

[DrJones]

Re: 2K Sports Confirms They Are Done With Baseball

Exactly what I'm saying with regards to pricing. Yes, I know the current price is for exclusivity. Call the "exclusive" price a "nonexclusive" price, and allow anyone wanting to create an NFL football game, pay to play so to speak. How would you know no one would be willing to pay that amount for non-exclusivity. If something is a hot commodity, there will be buyers. There are things that are overpriced out there in the world, and people still pony up the dollars.

How do I know? Maybe because I worked at EA for 7 years and spent another 3 making games for 2K and know how the deals work?

If the NFL asked for a flat fee of $60M from EA with no promise of exclusivity, EA would say LOL. 2K would say, where the hell are we going to get that money? We lost $30M per year on the MLB deal and almost went bankrupt!

If the NFL is such a hot commodity, why doesn't EA charge $100 or $150 or $200 for Madden every year? Everybody would still buy the game, right?

One argument for only having one developer is because it's too difficult for the NFL to monitor more than one company making an NFL football video game. Having to deal with 2K and EA and Sony creating an NFL football game would be too difficult is what some might argue for why the NFL would rather deal with one single game developer. I'm saying how could it really be that difficult if the NFL is monitoring more than 30 different teams (49ers, Seahawks, Broncos, Patriots, Colts, Steelers, etc.) throughout the entire year. The NFL seriously can't manage to draft guidelines for 2 or 3 video game developers to follow when the NFL is already doing so for more than 30 teams in the league?

Good Lord. Every sports title ever made involves people from the leagues and unions "monitoring" the companies. Which basically means "get the logos and uniforms right, don't mention steroids or anything that would make us look bad, where's the money?" The NFL didn't cut an exclusivity deal with EA because it would be "easier to monitor", they did it because they make a lot more money this way.

You think the NFL is leaving a lot of money on the table via exclusivity? By all means, you should get in contact with them and tell them your idea.

[nemesis04]

Re: 2K Sports Confirms They Are Done With Baseball

I agreed with it being simple...

I don't see having multiple games as an issue at all.


I'm saying this is the first time I've EVER heard that argument used. I've never seen it given as an actual reason for exclusivity other than strawberry's speculation.

I was just supporting your argument by showing that another sport did it.

[DrJones]

Re: 2K Sports Confirms They Are Done With Baseball

2K tried tit for tat by locking EA out of baseball, but with a more friendly deal that allowed for Sony to keep making their game.

I'd use "suicidal" instead of "friendly". The deal 2K signed with MLB was insane, and a huge money loser. You guys don't know how close that deal came to resulting in the end of all 2K Sports titles (yes, including NBA).