More Details Emerge About The Golf Club

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: More Details Emerge About The Golf Club

It looks pretty and the course creator and tours could drive a community around this game. However, count me among those that are less than optimistic about this game due to the lack of knowledge about how difficult it will be to put drives down the middle every time. I find mouse/stick swings to be the worst thing to happen to online golf games due to the opportunity for abuse and if this game is yet another relying on an analog system, well, it is hard to know what to expect. Maybe this devs catch lightning in a bottle but reliance on a mouse/stick swing is just terrible news for what otherwise appears to be something special.

And, looking at those videos, there are a lot of straight-ish looking tee shots and approaches. I realize those are basically ads for the game, but for like the millionth time on these forums: professional golfers do not hit the ball straight very often. They bend it a lot, but intentionally.

That's my concern. I really don't hear much about the difficulty or pure sim aspects of the game. More like you can play infinite courses so you can play online for a long time. Not really if everyone is shooting -20. We had 50 courses in TW14. Lack of variety in courses was not a problem. This game may be great for those who don't want a pure sim experience and just want to have fun online with a new golf game but I'd be shocked if there is enough to this game depth wise to satisfy the sim golfer and makes us feel engaged while we play (ie: steller presentation that's always been lacking with the TW series).

It seems with this board if you don't get all giddy with a new game then people get offended when you have some valid concerns. It's like if you're not drinking the Kool-aid immediately then you're a troll.

[ralphieboy11]

Re: More Details Emerge About The Golf Club

I am excited about what I've seen, but the difficulty of the game concerns me as well. There are no sliders to make things more difficult for those that prefer a harder experience.

While the course tutorial was great, the developer hit basically the same shot over and over again on the par 3 hole. Very straight but slightly long.

I know it is tough for developers because if you make the game too difficult people will be turned off. It seems even developers of MLB the Show realized this in the past year. They made the game more accessible by opening up the timing window and making the game easier for beginners.

I have visions of people shooting 20 under on some of these generated courses, and the only way to combat it is going to create unrealistic courses that are sort of on 'steriods'. I really hope that's not the case because what we've seen so far looks awesome.

[lhslancers]

Re: More Details Emerge About The Golf Club

You don't want the developers making scoring difficult by placing pins in impossible locations Nor do you want them making fairways that play like Mario Golf. If they don't have a way to increase the difficulty by making the analog swing more or less sensitive then the only way it could be done would be to add in the old 3 click swing system where difficulty could be increased by a smaller hitting area or an increased swing speed meter.

The game looks promising but I wouldn't want a game that I could shoot 60.

[OnlookerDelay]

Re: More Details Emerge About The Golf Club

They still haven't told us anything about how the basic swing difficulty is derived. It sounds like there might be an "X" factor involved based on this statement in their feature list under "Intuitive Control System":

"We’ve created and fine tuned a swing mechanic that is more about feeling and fluidity above the users’ accuracy of hitting a marker on a power bar."

Feeling... and especially fluidity, *suggests* to me that something special might be under the hood. I think an analog swing interface would work with a thumbstick if rhythm was a proportional component in it. Links 2004 had a hint of a rhythm component in it and it distinguished that game in a positive way for me. I got my best clubhead speed when I had a more controlled rhythm, as opposed to a quicker "twitch", ala Tiger Woods XXXX. I would also get more severe accuracy errors when my swing plane strayed during an out of rhythm swing in Links 2004.

Seymour and ComfortablyLomb, I welcome and appreciate your opinions here. I'm one of those who tends to get unjustifiably giddy over feature lists, only to have my bubble burst by the final product. Tiger Woods PGA Tour '14 was a classic example of that - I can't remember when I've ever been more disappointed in a game in the current-gen.

ComfortablyLomb, the game will start out as a thumbstick interface only, but the devs have already indicated that they are set on introducing mouse and keyboard control for the PC. I think they're going to have to for the PC version to have a chance. I'd guess that the percentage of PC gamers who play with gamepads is too small for a niche market game like golf.

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: More Details Emerge About The Golf Club

They still haven't told us anything about how the basic swing difficulty is derived. It sounds like there might be an "X" factor involved based on this statement in their feature list under "Intuitive Control System":

"We’ve created and fine tuned a swing mechanic that is more about feeling and fluidity above the users’ accuracy of hitting a marker on a power bar."

Feeling... and especially fluidity, *suggests* to me that something special might be under the hood. I think an analog swing interface would work with a thumbstick if rhythm was a proportional component in it. Links 2004 had a hint of a rhythm component in it and it distinguished that game in a positive way for me. I got my best clubhead speed when I had a more controlled rhythm, as opposed to a quicker "twitch", ala Tiger Woods XXXX. I would also get more severe accuray errors when my swing plane strayed during an out of rhythm swing in Links 2004.

Seymour and ComfortablyLomb, I welcome and appreciate your opinions here. I'm one of those who tends to get unjustifiably giddy over feature lists, only to have my bubble burst by the final product. Tiger Woods PGA Tour '14 was a classic example of that - I can't remember when I've ever been more disappointed in a game in the current-gen.

ComfortablyLomb, the game will start out as a thumbstick interface only, but the devs have already indicated that they are set on introducing mouse and keyboard control for the PC. I think they're going to have to for the PC version to have a chance. I'd guess that the percentage of PC gamers who play with gamepads is too small for a niche market game like golf.

Onlooker, you're a good guy so I really hope the game is something you end up really enjoying. A coourse creator sounds cool but to me it's never been a must have feature because TW14 gave you alot of top notch courses. The things for me that make a great golf game (difficulty, involving single player mode and presentation) just don't seem to be there. I may have become jaded with video games but saying they will continually listen to the community and continually update the game is a more " I'll beleive it when I see it" proposition. It looks like it's gonna be a bare bones golf game focused on online play which is fine if that is what you're looking for. To me that gets old fast. I don't particularly care about a PGA license because like almost everyone else I use my own golfer. Just want the game to have a presentation and difficulty that makes you wanna play every day.

[Skyboxer]

Re: More Details Emerge About The Golf Club

The main thing I look at is I have given EA many years so I'll surely give HB a few to build on the game. I Will support them each year until I see they aren't improving etc. .it's not going to be perfect year one I'm sure.

[ComfortablyLomb]

Re: More Details Emerge About The Golf Club

They still haven't told us anything about how the basic swing difficulty is derived. It sounds like there might be an "X" factor involved based on this statement in their feature list under "Intuitive Control System":

"We’ve created and fine tuned a swing mechanic that is more about feeling and fluidity above the users’ accuracy of hitting a marker on a power bar."

Feeling... and especially fluidity, *suggests* to me that something special might be under the hood. I think an analog swing interface would work with a thumbstick if rhythm was a proportional component in it. Links 2004 had a hint of a rhythm component in it and it distinguished that game in a positive way for me. I got my best clubhead speed when I had a more controlled rhythm, as opposed to a quicker "twitch", ala Tiger Woods XXXX. I would also get more severe accuracy errors when my swing plane strayed during an out of rhythm swing in Links 2004.

Seymour and ComfortablyLomb, I welcome and appreciate your opinions here. I'm one of those who tends to get unjustifiably giddy over feature lists, only to have my bubble burst by the final product. Tiger Woods PGA Tour '14 was a classic example of that - I can't remember when I've ever been more disappointed in a game in the current-gen.

ComfortablyLomb, the game will start out as a thumbstick interface only, but the devs have already indicated that they are set on introducing mouse and keyboard control for the PC. I think they're going to have to for the PC version to have a chance. I'd guess that the percentage of PC gamers who play with gamepads is too small for a niche market game like golf.

Right, not everyone has a gamepad. I think I have an old one kicking around but I haven't used it in years. Gamepads are certainly a niche on the PC market. Heck, I'm on PC for about 90% of my gaming and I prefer using a keyboard and mouse. My real issue is that I think a mouse-based swing, as in one where you go back and forth with the mouse, is an inferior method of swing control. It's easily subject to abuse and even making it more tempo-based will not prevent people from simply moving their mouse along a straight edge and removing that margin of error. Developers seem to love a mouse/stick swing because it allows for more ball flight outcomes that a simple traditional 2/3-click swing, but when playing against other humans, it's broken IMO because other humans don't necessarily "play fair."

Onlooker, you're a good guy so I really hope the game is something you end up really enjoying. A coourse creator sounds cool but to me it's never been a must have feature because TW14 gave you alot of top notch courses. The things for me that make a great golf game (difficulty, involving single player mode and presentation) just don't seem to be there. I may have become jaded with video games but saying they will continually listen to the community and continually update the game is a more " I'll beleive it when I see it" proposition. It looks like it's gonna be a bare bones golf game focused on online play which is fine if that is what you're looking for. To me that gets old fast. I don't particularly care about a PGA license because like almost everyone else I use my own golfer. Just want the game to have a presentation and difficulty that makes you wanna play every day.

I agree regarding the licensing aspect. I don't think the PGA Tour license is anything more than a tool for marketing for the EA game (not that there is anything wrong with that--this is merely an observation, not a position). Even as someone who tunes into several PGA events a year, I certainly have little interest in playing as a particular professional. It doesn't seem like other players care much about the pros in the game either.

I do disagree with you regarding the course creator. Back in the Golden Age of golf games, the late 90s and early 00s, course designers in part drove the PC communities for the Jack Nicklaus, PGA, and later Tiger games. Those games came with a few competent courses, but user designed courses were common and regularly of high quality. Some were real life recreations and others were fantasy courses (often made to look like real tracks). I have little doubt the sandbox/design crowd would do wonders with a powerful modern course design program. That this game comes with one is a huge positive.

But of course, the actual gameplay mechanics are everything. A pretty game with bad gameplay is hollow and useless. Of course, my disconnect with the playing base is already somewhat self-apparent: someone in this thread mentioned that the player models and animations are less than stellar. They look fine to me, or at least good enough considering their relative importance next to the gameplay and overall presentation package.

The main thing I look at is I have given EA many years so I'll surely give HB a few to build on the game. I Will support them each year until I see they aren't improving etc. .it's not going to be perfect year one I'm sure.

I think it is hard if not impossible to nail a game upon release so I would hope people around here are somewhat constructive with discussion and complaints, at least early on. If the developers don't come through on their promise to make improvements and changes with regularity, then that will be another matter. That they are indicating so early on that new iterations will be frequent, I think that means they know updates will be necessary from day one.

[MERACE]

Re: More Details Emerge About The Golf Club

Here's a link to a thread at the HB Studios The Golf Club forums that addresses some concerns expressed here on gameplay:

How Will The Golf Club Represent The GAME of Golf

http://www.hb-studios.com/forum/index.php?topic=582.0

"Hi guys,
It's a balancing act at this stage. As you've rightly said for the first iteration of the game we have concentrated on a solid base to develop from. The goals of the game at the start was to make a fun, challenging game that was a bit different than what was out there already.
As you've also pointed out, we're also an indie developer. This means that not everything we want to go in can get in. So for the first release we wont have every option available to a golfer in real life, for example drops, although it is on our list. The time needed on this would have drastically impacted other features, as having infinite course creates a whole world of new edge cases other games dont have to worry about.
We do match the rules as closely as possible though, and we've tried to mimic how us amateurs play rather than pros. For example you do get penalty strokes for hitting the ball in the water, and then you retake the shot from where you are. It's not ideal but small steps in the right direction are better than stretching ourselves too thinly and getting nothing right, which I think you'll agree on

I think you'll enjoy what we have, and I think you'll very much enjoy helping us evolve the game in the time ahead."


-MERACE

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: More Details Emerge About The Golf Club

Here's a link to a thread at the HB Studios The Golf Club forums that addresses some concerns expressed here on gameplay:

How Will The Golf Club Represent The GAME of Golf

http://www.hb-studios.com/forum/index.php?topic=582.0

"Hi guys,
It's a balancing act at this stage. As you've rightly said for the first iteration of the game we have concentrated on a solid base to develop from. The goals of the game at the start was to make a fun, challenging game that was a bit different than what was out there already.
As you've also pointed out, we're also an indie developer. This means that not everything we want to go in can get in. So for the first release we wont have every option available to a golfer in real life, for example drops, although it is on our list. The time needed on this would have drastically impacted other features, as having infinite course creates a whole world of new edge cases other games dont have to worry about.
We do match the rules as closely as possible though, and we've tried to mimic how us amateurs play rather than pros. For example you do get penalty strokes for hitting the ball in the water, and then you retake the shot from where you are. It's not ideal but small steps in the right direction are better than stretching ourselves too thinly and getting nothing right, which I think you'll agree on

I think you'll enjoy what we have, and I think you'll very much enjoy helping us evolve the game in the time ahead."


-MERACE

Whatever excitement I have for this game has gone down a little more. Just sounds like its setting itself up to be a fun little golf game where the hook is you can play a gazillion different course that you make and others can make. Kinda like the Little Big Planet of golf games which is fine if that's what you pine for.

Not really liking the drop situation and how they kinda sound like EA with the excuses that "it will impact other features" and "its a balancing act". I guess I'm picky but stuff like drop zones and compromises should not be an issue anymore with next gen games because we heard enough about limitations with the EA excuse machine.

I'm getting the impression they are rushing this game out because they realize EA is skipping this year and figure they got an untapped market who will buy any golf game. Hope I'm wrong.

[Skyboxer]

Re: More Details Emerge About The Golf Club

At this point you seem to just be looking for reasons to constantly down the game.
What part of new game from scratch don't you understand? The part of limited funds.. etc.. etc..
Let alone it's not a huge company like EA. EA didn't even get drops right.

This isn't EA and taking "EA excuses" and throwing that on a totally different company is beyond fair.

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: More Details Emerge About The Golf Club

At this point you seem to just be looking for reasons to constantly down the game.
What part of new game from scratch don't you understand? The part of limited funds.. etc.. etc..
Let alone it's not a huge company like EA. EA didn't even get drops right.

This isn't EA and taking "EA excuses" and throwing that on a totally different company is beyond fair.

I really don't care how much funds they have. I want a simulation type golf game and if a company had limited funds to develop one than I have limited excitement about it coming out. Do you have a relative that works for this company? This board is hilarious. People only want total agreement because everything should be peaches and cream on this board. I didn't get the memo that this was a cheerleading thread for this game.

I have as much reason to be pessimistic as you do being optimistic. You have your opinion and I have mine. Just because a developer is putting out info and is being accommodating to gamers doesn't mean much. They want you to buy their game, they are in it to make money. EA is very accommodating the month before their games are released and what happens 2 weeks after its released.......the sound of crickets.

[MERACE]

Re: More Details Emerge About The Golf Club

Here's another link partially addressing presentation and specifically audio:

http://www.hb-studios.com/forum/index.php?topic=567.0

"Hi guys, thanks for the question - I've been lurking around here waiting for some audio questions hah. Our commentary system is going to be ever-evolving so what you get a launch will be cool but what you will get later will be super cool.

The commentary will be less traditional than we've seen in other golf sims. I wanted the overall audio experience to be a relaxing experience so the commentary reflects this in its casual tone. I want it to act like any other golfing buddy you'd be out on the course with. Nice an casual without being too talkative. The commentary will mainly serve as a guy to give you relevant info like your score, if there are hazards off the tee, how your friends are doing compared to you, etc. I'd like the commentary to be one part useful, one part entertaining and one part not-all-in-your-face.

And yes, you can disable the commentary but I'm really trying to make a game where the commentary doesn't annoy people. Since is self published we have some really fun ideas for commentary as to how it can evolve after launch. I really want to have a dialogue with the fans out there who are playing it all the time and adapt it with the help of their input. For example I have set up a twitter account just for the voice of 'The Golf Club' - https://twitter.com/NewVoiceOfGolf

This has never been done before (to my knowledge) and I think it's a great opportunity to make a game with commentary that people actually like to listen to. Another first is that I am actually the voice talent but am also implementing the commentary so I don't have to wait to book someone in the studio to add new content.... this is where we will really be pushing the envelope. We will be able to change the commentary with each update and add new (or remove annoying ^_^) commentary over the life of the game.

As for the ambience, we have a really cool system in place that gives each course theme its own feel and adapts depending where you are on the course. So it'll never sound same-y

Lemme know if y'all have any other questions! And follow the voice on twitter!! He's always looking for input from the fans!"


-MERACE

[MERACE]

Re: More Details Emerge About The Golf Club

When it comes to new game announcements (especially sports games) there are two extreme camps some people fall in - Paula Pollyanna or Debbie Downer.

I fall in the camp somewhere in between - Henry Hopeful.


-MERACE

[Skyboxer]

Re: More Details Emerge About The Golf Club

I really don't care how much funds they have. I want a simulation type golf game and if a company had limited funds to develop one than I have limited excitement about it coming out. Do you have a relative that works for this company? This board is hilarious. People only want total agreement because everything should be peaches and cream on this board. I didn't get the memo that this was a cheerleading thread for this game.

I have as much reason to be pessimistic as you do being optimistic. You have your opinion and I have mine. Just because a developer is putting out info and is being accommodating to gamers doesn't mean much. They want you to buy their game, they are in it to make money. EA is very accommodating the month before their games are released and what happens 2 weeks after its released.......the sound of crickets.

You really have zero clue what you are talking about.
I'm not being optimistic at all. In fact I stated many Times that the game would probably not be all that great at the start.
I'm just being fair and realistic about a new game built from scratch. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt at the start and don't have unrealistic expectations for a first release game.
So no I won't be spewing negativity after every single update. If after a few releases they aren't where I feel they could have been then ill share my disappointment.
Again this isn't EA which had years with the game. ..lmao

I'll just do what I should have done before and use ignore button.

[Seymour Scagnetti]

Re: More Details Emerge About The Golf Club

You really have zero clue what you are talking about.
I'm not being optimistic at all. In fact I stated many Times that the game would probably not be all that great at the start.
I'm just being fair and realistic about a new game built from scratch. I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt at the start and don't have unrealistic expectations for a first release game.
So no I won't be spewing negativity after every single update. If after a few releases they aren't where I feel they could have been then ill share my disappointment.
Again this isn't EA which had years with the game. ..lmao

I'll just do what I should have done before and use ignore button.

Lol, I love it when people need to proclaim proudly that they are going to use the ignore button (99% of the time they don't) like anybody gives a crap about it.