DaSchwam's M25 PS3 Classic Roster/Sliders

**theschwami** · 04-02-2014, 01:00 PM

Credits for DaSchwam's M25 PS3 Classic Roster/Sliders

First and foremost, for providing an excellent foundation and tools, we wish to thank Playmaker, Capa, Tmac747, DDel63, Valdostakid, Curvise, Rysumm, Mick-S and especially Xanathol. We also thank Gotmadskillzson for some common sense which we have extended to the pro level.

Here is what we did to the roster.... There are 11 teams from 60/70/80's, 10 from 90's, and 10 from new millennium.

It was difficult blending teams from 60,70,80,90, new millennium from several different sources, so that they could play together competitively. The game has changed drastically. Looking at the difference in player size in the trenches blew my mind.

The * teams were added, appearance/weights for 60/70/80 teams adjusted, skin color adjusted for all players, all players/teams completely re-rated and balanced to play well against each other... without sacrificing the individual and blend of unique talent they possessed which made them champions.

These teams rosters OVR rate from 75 to 82, however, taking top 20/25/30 and 40 player ratings then averaging all five items, they rate from 80 to 84, a tightly blended competitive pack. The number you see when loading the teams to play is "smoothed" down to closer reflect the full roster OVR range as follows:

Playoff team 76
SB loss 77
SB win 78
BTB Champ 79

OVR is MISLEADING and does not tell the whole story. Each player, offensive/defensive unit, position grouping and team has hidden strength and weakness. I.e. I took the higher rated 86 Gmen to play at the 00 Baltimore bullies, Simms got knocked out cold, Morris couldn't run, Dilfer did what he did best, handed off 35 times as Jamal Lewis pounded LT & Co. for 135yds and I got my a** kicked 27-10.

Back in Gotham, the G-men did their thing 30-17 and ran effectively while shutting down Lewis, Dilfer had to throw and he threw picks, so home field means something, sometimes, teams can sometime run, sometimes not, it all depends on the random generator they have in the game, ON ANY GIVEN SUNDAY.... more to come.

**theschwami** · 04-02-2014, 01:04 PM

Things you should know and may notice

To those I have thanked in the previous post, you did the heavy lifting and I cannot thank you enough. Please do not take the following observations in the wrong way, it's not meant to be any detraction from your immense efforts... because NOW, after countless hours, I know how MUCH you guys bust your A** to make these rosters and make the game better for all of us in the community.

Things you should know and may notice...

Without AWARENESS, your brain dead, and brain dead players make more mistakes, penalties, missed blocks, poor choices for positioning and reaction, special teams breakdowns etc.

Looking at the M25 Pre 2013 roster: 2414 players, 1679 of which have AWR < 75 down to 35. Season end FBG rated roster from rostershare 2533 players, of which 2112 AWR <75 down to 35.

IMO, these players are lobotomized and cannot perform at a professional level. If your AWR is under 75 you can't play college ball much less memorize a play book and play in the pros. No brain dead players in this roster, 2222 players and everyone has AWR between 75 and 95. Otherwise, the game just doesn't play right.

Lots of ratings "haircuts", no rating over 95, few over 90, its an exclusive club, same with speed.

Defensively:
D-line strength, block shedding, finesse & power move boosted where applicable.
DE, LB & DB pursuit, awareness, tackling & play recognition boosted. This group cannot be lobotomized.
DT boosted acceleration, lowered speed and pursuit in most cases, 300 lb guy has no speed, he has strength, block shed, power move & burst for QB pressure & run stopping, otherwise he's playing in Europe, Canada or semi-pro.

LB pursuit in mid 80's, few with 90 speed, most under 88, boosted play rec, tackling, awareness.
DB pursuit upper 70 to mid 80., boosted play rec, tackling, awareness.
LB & DB acceleration (how quick you obtain your top speed) = speed -3 to -5, few around 90, most under 85.
Most of the time, these guys are back-peddling and reacting, but can still close quickly and take the ball carrier down with boosted awareness, play recognition and tackling.

Across D, boosted ability to JUMP & CATCH the ball, this doesn't effect OVR, but go ahead thread the needle and throw stupid passes, see what happens now, you will really pay.

Offensively: Adjusted OLine pass/run block footwork & strength. Some O-lines, despite strength & size, could not run block. Most guards have higher run block strength and that's where you run. Most left tackles now have the most pass block strength to protect blindside of right handed QB, RT for those lefties.

The trenches where the game is won on both sides... O-Line, TE, FB, HB, D-line: in most cases acceleration (the burst to get to their top speed) must exceed their speed rating, in the game & real life.

Try running the Packer sweep from Lombardi's playbook with any of these teams, O-Line will now pull, accelerating to get in front of the RB, forming a perfect seal, no more RB beating linemen to the hole. Some WR can now hold a block just long enough to get the pissed off DB or LB "in their face" visual... read Boldin on ARZ.

As with the O-line pulling above, WR, HB boosted BLOCKING ability, especially for WR's, no effect on OVR but what a difference. DB's, Safetys and LB's have a tougher time shedding blocks at the edge to break down the screen, option, stretch run, pitch, toss, etc.

Few WR, TE, RB over 88 speed, WR acceleration = speed -5, again, nobody is really that fast, like Rice, they have release, they know the route, the DB doesn't, unless their Haynes or Hayes...

HB's few with speed over 90, most under with acceleration = speed or speed-3, adjusted ball carrier vision, elusiveness, agility, the ability to make rapid changes in direction, juke, spin... this and knowing where they are going, make up for the drop in speed/accel.

Blended and matched strengths for more realistic game play. Too many O-line with 90+ strength vs mid 80 D-line & LB's, now I see less patty cake with pass or run block hold & lock forever visuals.

D-line pushes back and sheds, just when you think that hole is open, watch a DT or end shed, snatch and slam an RB... DB's & LB's pop through on blitz, pass pocket protection collapses in a reasonable amount of time, putting pressure on QB to react or get sacked.

Finally, appearance/weights for 60/70/80 teams adjusted, skin color adjusted for all players. Countless hours of testing and refining, still a work in progress. And yes, there will be a V2 with some more up to date teams, Its a passing league, its a mindset, its a culture, yeah Phil. More to come...

**theschwami** · 04-02-2014, 01:07 PM

Why I Selected These Teams

Here are the reaons why I selected these teams for the roster....

BTB = Back to Back; SBC = Super Bowl or NFL Champ, SBL = Super Bowl Loss, CGL = Championship Game Loss, DIVL = Divisional Loss, WCL = Wild Card Loss, SRS, a simple rating system, explained here.

All comments are IMO...

NFC

WEST

SEA 13 SBC (417PF-231PA, #8O, #1D, SRS 13, dominant D)
ARZ 08 SBL (427-426, #3O, #28D, SRS -1.9, a strange 9-7 flock, caught fire late, 1 pick 6 + toe drag shy of SBC)
STL 99 SBC (526- 242, #1O, #4D, SRS 11.9, Warner, Faulk, fast WR's, greatest show on turf)
SF 89 BTB (442-253, #1O, #3D, SRS 10.7, BTB SBC, 4 titles in 9 yrs)

SOUTH

NO 10 SBC (510-341, #1O, #20D, SRS 10.8, Brees, Bush, SB onside kick to open 2nd half, bold coach)
TB 02 SBC (346-196, #18O, #1D, SRS 8.8, dominant & fast D)
ATL 98 CGL (442-289, #4O, #4D, SRS 10, beat 15-1 MIN, dirty birds lost to BTB Broncos)
CAR 03 SBL (325-304, #15O, #10D, SRS -0.9, scrappy cats lost to BTB Patriots, 1 Vinatieri FG shy of SBC)

NORTH

GB 62 BTB (415-148, #1O, #1D, SRS 19.7, statistically the strongest of 5 titles in 8 yrs for Lombardi)
MIN 98 CGL (556-296, #1O, #6D, SRS 14.9, couldn't hold onto the ball, could have won it all)
CHI 85 SBC (456-198, #2O, #1D, SRS 15.9, dominant D)
DET 95 WCL (436-336, #2O, #14D, SRS 6.9, Mitchell 4300yds, Sanders 1500yds)

EAST

NYG 86 SBC (371-236, #8O, #2D, SRS 9.0, a dominant D, 18 game run to SBC)
WAS 91 SBC (485-224, #1O, #2D, SRS 16.6, an underrated team, only lost to PHI & DAL by 5pts combined)
DAL 92 BTB (409-243, #2O, #5D, SRS 9.9, V1 of BTB SBC, 3 of 4 yrs)
PHI 04 SBL (386-260, #8O, #2D, SRS 5.6, SB loss to BTB NE culminated dominant 4 yr NFC run w/McNabb & Reid)

AFC

WEST

SD 06 DIVL (492-303, #1O, #7D, SRS 10.2, LT 1800yds, Schottenheimer's curse, should have won it all)
KC 69 SBC (359-177, #2O, #1D, SRS 11.9, speed & Stram's genius brought the trophy to KC.)
DEN 98 BTB (501-309, #2O, #8D, SRS 8.9, Elway's BTB SBC, started 13-0, TDavis 2K yds)
OAK 83 SBC (442-338, #3O, #13D, SRS 6.8, 2nd SBC in 4yrs, speedy, 9 of 10 game run to smash Skins.)

SOUTH

IND 06 SBC (427-360, #2O, #23D, SRS 5.9, D & run game jelled late for solid playoff run.)
TEN 99 SBL (392-324, #7O, #15D, SRS 1.0, Music City Miracle, a Mike Jones tackle away from a trophy.)
JAX 99 CGL (396-217, #6O, #1D, SRS 6.4, culmination of 4 yr run, only losses vs Titans that year, 0-3 )
HOU 12 DIVL (416-331, #8O, #9D, SRS 3.5, Johnson, Watt, Foster, late collapse but best yr to date)

NORTH

CIN 88 SBL (448-339, #1O, #16D, SRS 6.1, 10-0 in jungle, a Montana drive away from a trophy)
PIT 75 BTB (373-162, #5O, #2D, SRS 14.2, 1st BTB, statistically the best of their 4 in 6 yr run)
BAL 00 SBC (333-165, #14O, #1D, SRS 8.0, bully D, fewest pts allowed in 16 game season)
CLE 64 SBC (415-293, #2O, #5D, SRS 5.0, Brown, Warfield & Ryan won the trophy.)

EAST

NE 04 BTB (437-260, #4O, #2D, SRS 12.8, balanced run, pass & D, BTB SBC, 3 of 4 yrs.)
MIA 72 BTB (385-171, #1O, #1D, SRS 11.0, V1 of BTB SBC, Csonka/Morris 2K yds, perfect.)
BUF 90 SBL (428-263, #1O, #6D, SRS 8.6, best of their 4 straight SB losses, wide right of a trophy.)
NYJ 68 SBC (419-280, #2O, #4D, SRS 7.9, Joe Willy +17 pt dog, guaranteed victory and delivered.)

BTB SBC/Title. In the Post 60 modern era, only nine times have there been BTB champs. You win it all, the following season, every week you are the opponents SB, making it tough to repeat and that is what makes this a special club.

Johnny Cocker's (one and done) have no business being called the greatest of all time. If they were so good, why couldn't they repeat? We give credit where and when it is truly due....

GB 61/62, 65/66/67; MIA 72/73; PIT 74/75/78/79; SF 81/84/88/89; DAL 92/93/95; DEN 97/98; NE 01/03/04.

**theschwami** · 04-02-2014, 01:10 PM

The Sliders I use with this Roster

Here are the sliders I use for playing vs CPU, sim and coach mode:

Use at your own risk, YMMV.

Changes in (parentheses) & BOLD.

COACHING OPTIONS
AUTO SUBS
OFF
QB 5/10
RB 25/30
WR 35/40
FB 35/40
OL 45/50

DEF
DT 45/50
DE 45/50
LB 35/40
CB 35/40
S 35/40

GAME OPTIONS
Qtr Length 7 mins (SIM) all other modes 10-15 mins
Accelerated Clock ON
Min Clock Time 25 Sec
Camera Zoomed (For something completely different, TRY Broadcast, really)
All OPTIONS ON (TRY Coach Mode, with Broadcast, no, really)
Injuries 30 (15) too many injuries in PLAY NOW/SIM
Fatigue 45 (50)
Game Speed VERY SLOW (SLOW) CRITICAL
Min Speed Threshold 5 (25) CRITICAL

IMO: Moving up to slow with threshold increase really put some POP into the game/animations. Changed the dynamics completely. Using coach mode to let the computer do the work and not abuse my controller. So I don't break off a big one on every return or play, but its more realistic.

PENALTIES
OFSI 90 (100)
FLST 80 (57) got sick of BS offensive flags on my hard counts.
HOLD 74 (85) realistic # of calls
FAMA 57
DEPI 85 (100) saw it called for a 3rd time
OFPI 95 (100) saw it called for a 4th time
KPRI 50 (100) yet to see it called
CLIP 54
INTG 80 (90) realistic # of balls thrown away.
RTPA 54
RTKI 0

PLAYER/CPU

QBA 10/15 (10/12) CPU can still pass
PBL 0/0
WRC 47/47

RBL 10/40 (00/35) CPU can still run fine
FUM 40/40

REA 90/90 (85/85)
INT 28/28 (25/25)
PC 90/90 (85/85)

TAC 45/45 (37/35) Just enough D to keep it real.

Got sick of seeing 2 or 3 pick six's every time I simmed. Bump in global game speed to slow with threshold increase made up defensively for the drop in overall tackling. Was able to drop pass reaction/coverage/int as a result. Stats in 7 min qtr sim are spot on. You have run/pass vs CPU & in sim mode, a nice happy middle ground. If its too easy vs CPU, just bump up the tackling to taste.

FGP 45/45
FGA 45/45
PPW 45/45
PAC 95/95
KOP 50/50

**theschwami** · 04-02-2014, 01:23 PM

Faster Reaction From Wireless PS3 on Madden 25

I use WIRELESS and recommend NOT logging into PSN before entering M25. In fact, I have found that M25 is MUCH more responsive in the menus and IN THE GAME, when you DO NOT log in to PSN. Must have something to do with the wireless networking setup. This may not apply to those who are Ethernet hardwired. Use at your own risk, YMMV.

**Teleo** · 04-02-2014, 02:14 PM

Re: DaSchwam's M25 PS3 Classic Roster/Sliders

Have you used these in coach mode?

**chargersfan21** · 04-03-2014, 01:00 AM

These are AWESOME, I am very excited to play with these. Thanks for posting.

One q though, can these be used in CFM? My system has locked up twice when trying to start CFM, apologies if I missed this somewhere in the posts above.

**theschwami** · 04-03-2014, 09:42 AM

Re: DaSchwam's M25 PS3 Classic Roster/Sliders

Originally posted by Teleo

Have you used these in coach mode?

Yes, coach mode where I do NOT interact other than to call plays, also CPU vs CPU, supersim, let er rip... tastes great, less filling.

You might want to modify the sliders which I use in PLAY NOW and I take control of players, CPU run block set high to counter my D? etc.

**Teleo** · 04-03-2014, 12:24 PM

Re: DaSchwam's M25 PS3 Classic Roster/Sliders

Thanks...are these on All Madden or All Pro?

**theschwami** · 04-03-2014, 02:24 PM

Re: DaSchwam's M25 PS3 Classic Roster/Sliders

Originally posted by chargersfan21

These are AWESOME, I am very excited to play with these. Thanks for posting.

One q though, can these be used in CFM? My system has locked up twice when trying to start CFM, apologies if I missed this somewhere in the posts above.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Seems I am not the only one having this roster problem with offline CFM. Rysumm is having the same issue with Playmakers ported 1990 roster.

I was able to resolve the issue and have uploaded a new version of the roster which will load in OFFLINE CFM. How far it will go from there, remains to be seen.

You are now free to roam about the offline CFM world, you should see 1579 players imported, please let me know if you can sim through a season.

For those interested....

I tried bumping all teams to a minimum of 48 per roster, not the problem.
I tried deleting players to get under 2100, not the problem.
I tried auto reordering before loading in to offline CFM, not the problem. (But you should do this anyway, its a good practice, and in some cases will resolve "freezing" issues.)

The resolution was to put some bleach in the free agent pool as something had contaminated it.

Rather than delete 643 free agents one by one... using the Generic EA DB editor, I added two lines to the team table: 1. HOF locked and 2. NFL Greats HOF unlocked databases. These lines can be found in most M25 Pre2013 roster files.

I then reassigned Hines Ward to TGID 0, unlocked NFL greats HOF, reassigned all free agents TGID 1009 as locked HOF members TGID 1021.

Worked like a charm, the offline CFM ate it up, only taking in the actual 32 team members TGID 1 - 32 totaling 1579 and not sucking in the quarantined free agent pool.

My assumption is since I had drained the free agent pool and I was not on PSN (not signed in to EA servers), to make up the difference for teams with less than 53 players (some 60/70 teams have only 39 players on roster) and to provide a free agent pool, the game reads this data off the DVD (The Packers signed Aldon Smith!).

**chargersfan21** · 04-03-2014, 03:40 PM

Re: DaSchwam's M25 PS3 Classic Roster/Sliders

Originally posted by theschwami

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. Seems I am not the only one having this roster problem with offline CFM. Rysumm is having the same issue with Playmakers ported 1990 roster.

I was able to resolve the issue and have uploaded a new version of the roster which will load in OFFLINE CFM. How far it will go from there, remains to be seen.

You are now free to roam about the offline CFM world, you should see 1579 players imported, please let me know if you can sim through a season.

For those interested....

I tried bumping all teams to a minimum of 48 per roster, not the problem. I tried deleting player to get under 2100, not the problem.
I tried auto reordering before loading in to offline CFM, not the problem. But you should do this anyway.

The resolution was to eliminate the free agent pool as something had contaminated it.

Rather than delete 643 free agents one by one... using the Generic EA DB editor, I added two lines to the team table: 1. HOF locked and 2. NFL Greats HOF unlocked databases. These lines can be found in any M25 Pre2013 file.

I then reassigned all free agents TGID 1009 to locked HOF members TGID 1021. The offline CFM ate it up, only taking in the actual 32 team members and not sucking in the reassigned tainted free agent pool.

Fantastic!!! Thanks for resolving and also for the great team choices. This should make for a heck of a one-season, five-decade battle of NFL greats to kill time until the draft. Will try to start a CFM tonight and will let you know if it works.

**tmac747** · 04-03-2014, 08:49 PM

Re: DaSchwam's M25 PS3 Classic Roster/Sliders

First of all I would like to thank you for your recognition of myself and others at the start of your thread. Next I have got to give you a applause

. You have done a fantastic job with this roster file and sliders. I do use a different set of penalties though. I have played 2 games...(03 panthers vs 04 pats, and the 85 bears vs the 98 broncos). These games where like night and day....which is what you want. PS3 Community, I highly recommend that you download this roster file and sliders.This fellow roster maker has done a superb job.

**theschwami** · 04-04-2014, 07:31 AM

Re: DaSchwam's M25 PS3 Classic Roster/Sliders

Originally posted by tmac747

First of all I would like to thank you for your recognition of myself and others at the start of your thread. Next I have got to give you a applause

. You have done a fantastic job with this roster file and sliders. I do use a different set of penalties though. I have played 2 games...(03 panthers vs 04 pats, and the 85 bears vs the 98 broncos). These games where like night and day....which is what you want. PS3 Community, I highly recommend that you download this roster file and sliders.This fellow roster maker has done a superb job.

Tmac747,

Thank you for the kind words Sir. I too enjoy playing with yours and the others rosters as much. I applaud and recommend that others download and enjoy your efforts as well.

I would love to compare notes, and know what Penalty set you are using. The slider and penalty sets are an area of consternation. There are three penalties I have NEVER seen called, DPI, Running into kicker and running into P/K return.

IN SIM: I had never seen a blocked punt or kick, until I dropped running into kicker to 5, started seeing blocked punts, dropping to zero, I have seen a blocked FG in the stats. Still have not seen "live" block animation in play now.

By setting OPI high 90, I have actually seen it called twice in PLAY NOW, and the receivers tend to be more cautious in their route running/pushing off the DB. I set DPI lower 85 to ALLOW the DB to be slightly more aggressive. My fear is if I set DPI to 100, I not only will see the penalty, I will see my DB's play turn into a matador's defense, please come right this way.

Despite setting tackling at 45 & pass coverage/reaction at 90, QB acc at 10/15, pass block at ZERO, its still WAY too easy for a human to pass in this game. However, this is where the statistics on SUPERSIM and HUM vs CPU panned out.

Per team around 180-300 yds pass & 70 -150 yds run per game avg. and in HUM vs CPU the game played decently. I tried HUM QB at 8, still too easy, set it at 5, a little tougher, set it at 3 and suddenly the most accurate QB is throwing wild and couldn't hit water if he fell out of a boat.

If you crank up the tackling (which makes all your defenders better, not just vs run) to stop passing, you must crank up the run blocking to preserve your running game. You must also crank up the pass blocking, because now your QB gets sacked 6 times a game in SIM and 9 if you control a DE.

Problem solved, right? Wrong, because pass block is now higher, the CPU thinks it can throw all day and abandons the run, even though you have a 1500 yd back. In SIM, you wind up with AFL stats (arena football league) 65 pass attempts and 12 run attempts per team....

You can't make tendancy adjustments in PLAY NOW, What are you gonna do? (shoulder up shrug with both hands in the air like Mother Mary.) muttering Good times.... Good times.

The whole night and day thing, glad to hear your experiencing it as well... at first I thought something went awry in my efforts, IN MOST CASES little predictability, went wild adjusting penalty & slider sets, to no avail.

Decided to conduct an experiment in terror, with two teams decided to play vs opponents 100 times, 50 times home, 50 times away. Would SIM through to Q4 and sometimes intervene in closer games, my interventions had little effect.

Isolated two teams and bastardized them, one team, 91 Redskins, lobotomized AWR and cut speed, dropped them from averaged 80 to 78 ovr (using my averaging method mentioned in previous post).

The random effectiveness of pass/run game for either team, and on any given Sunday still applied, but MUCH LESS so. More often than not, the other "bully" would pound the weakling Redskins, who couldn't win or run even at home, one out of ten at home vs 80-84 averaged ovr Jags/Titans/Texans. Wuck? TWO lousy OVR points?

Next, took the Patriots, put them on "roids", added AWR & speed, not even a 2 pt OVR bump.... a lousy 1.4... they went on a victory tour, destroyed me with the 83 Raiders in Oakland, etc. These minutemen were INVINCIBLE, Brady unstoppable, destroying opponent after opponent.

Bottom line: The results with the "engineered" teams were somewhat predictable. The results among the "untampered" teams was anything but. Its a fine line that divides these champions from each other. However, its a slightly broader deeper stroke that divides the repeaters from the one timers.

Observed that if both teams were within 4 (averaged) OVR points of each other, despite the overall roster OVR diff ranging from 75 to even 85... FOR THE MOST PART, anything could happen, anywhere, anytime with any of these teams.

A byproduct of the process: It all goes to a blend of broadness in starting talent at 24 positions (K,P included), and how deep your bench is. Observed that MANY game changing plays occur when backups are in the game. As a result of this experiment, I made some adjustments to correct certain oversights I had committed in the initial "vetting" process.

Hence, paying close attention to the quality or lack thereof in backup players, and the frequency effect of AUTOSUB settings is VERY important and UNDERRATED.

To this end, SF, DEN, DAL, GB, NE, MIA, PIT are for the most part, broad and deep. In contrast, CHI, NYG, TB & BALT have a stronger concentration of strength among starters, especially on defense, but are slightly thinner offensively and at the edges. Coincidence that the broader, deeper teams repeated? I think not.

Ponder this Batman, take the higher overall OVR 06 Colts at home vs 92 DAL, (yeah, no kidding, I did not plan it that way, and was ready to juice the Pokes, however....) see what happens, I did, on more than one occasion, the Pokes took care of business quite well, no intervention from the "creator" needed.

Took the higher rated Pack to the Browns, got my A** kicked on multiple occasions. Took the higher rated 06 Colts to see the 00 Ravens, watched Peyton act like he did in the SB... on occasion he acted like he did in 06 vs Ravens. Go figure.

Repeated this process with all the teams, and that's how and when I knew to finally, leave well enough, alone. How does that work? On any given Sunday, and that's why they play the games.

This whole process has restored my faith in the fact that not everything can be distilled into or ascertained from a single number or even a set of indicators. Metrics, quantify, qualify, damn statistics... whaddaya gonna do? Good times, good times.. stay thirsty my friends and enjoy.

**chargersfan21** · 04-04-2014, 12:16 PM

Re: DaSchwam's M25 PS3 Classic Roster/Sliders

Worked importing in CFM and advancing to week two of the regular season. I think it's good! Great work

DaSchwam's M25 PS3 Classic Roster/Sliders

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