Madden NFL 15 Screenshot - Colin Kaepernick with Tattoos

[The JareBear]

Re: Madden 15 ONLY Features Colin's Tattoos (No One Elses)

Eh...

This is kinda weird to me.

Part of me thinks it isn't a big deal at all, and other part is like, so this guy is literally going to be the only player on the field with tats. Just kinda stands out in a weird way. I dunno.

Obviously I am much more concerned with gameplay elements, but I almost wish they hadn't shown this pic as the "icebreaker" of M15 screenshots because now I am just going to notice how nobody else has tats.

[Mike Lowery]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Screenshot - Colin Kaepernick with Tattoos

OK, then why do NBA games seem to not have this problem, don't most players with tattoos in the NBA have them in NBA Live and NBA 2K?

[goravens2052]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Screenshot - Colin Kaepernick with Tattoos

Well it's nice to finally dispel this urban legend that the NFL forbid tats in Madden and actually get some facts.

That said, this is another example of why I want another gaming studio to purchase a football game from, the constant lack of simple straightforward communication from EA/Tiburon. All this time over the years, this simple question about tats has been asked/discussed in reference to Madden without these facts being shared.

Also since this has somehow turned into a debate over the tattoo, let me use an example. Everyone has brought up how NBA 2K, WWE games, even UFC which is made by EA has tattoos. Now EA in that tweet basically said it's a licensing issue.

So what if, say next week 2K does announce a football game and say they have more tattoos on players in their game. Whether by "artist permission" as EA would say or by recreating it, wouldn't that say a lot of how much BS the whole "they need the artist permission to use it" has been. That's another reason to hope for another NFL game so if they use more tattoos, then we can really get straight to the answer on this whole tattoo debate.

[Iceman87GT]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Screenshot - Colin Kaepernick with Tattoos

Adding to this:
How would any actor/athlete w/tats ever do a photoshoot or appear in a card? Does that also require permission from the artist? Because it seems like very similar scenarios to me.

As it was mentioned above.... LAME excuse.

Capturing someone's image is different from recreating someones image.

In a photoshoot you are taking their picture, when you create a digital model of someone you are recreating their body INCLUDING their tattoos.

It may seem similar but in the legal realm there is a big difference.

I've never ever in my life heard of tattoos being property of the NFL. Are they really saying that they need permission from the NFL to use tattoos? Like that's a seperate rights issue?

Only EA....

No one is saying that the NFL has the rights, it was only stated that it had to do with Artist rights. As in the tattoo artist who did the work has a legal claim to the reproduction of the tattoo.


For Those of you pointing out that NBA 2K, UFC, and WWE have tattoos so why can't Madden. Consider the fact that UFC has individually licensed fighters (and I assume the same goes for WWE), whereas the MLB, NBA, NHL and NFL all are licensed via players unions.

Brock Lesnar is going to want that sword down the middle of his chest if he is going to be represented in the game, so he's going to make the effort to secure those rights. Tattoos are a part of a fighter's brand, they are one way they market themselves. Lesnar's Sword Tattoo is a great example of this, even if you only see the pre-fight stuff you can separate him from the other hulk-like fighters by that sword going down his sternum. the fact that the fighters don't wear shirts means that if you were to ignore their tattoos for licensing reasons their absence would be even more glaring.

The NBA is similar to the UFC and WWE in terms of tattoos being a part of the players' brand, and players have more incentive to secure their brand, because of how often you can see the tattoos (entire arms are bare, and if you ever make it to the free-throw line your gonna have a HD camera front and center on you and your tattoos). So despite the fact that the player licensing is done through the Players Union for current players (individually for retired players), it actually makes sense for players to secure the licensing for their tattoos and it makes sense for 2K/EA to then make the effort to put them in the game.

When it comes to the NFL first off you have the most players of any sports gaming franchise (53 per team, and even more in the free agent pool), but also you have shoulder pads that eliminate pretty much every tattoos above mid-bicep (though with the way jerseys and pads are being worn nowadays you actually get a better view of almost the entire bicep). And with the way the camera distance pretty much has to be for you to see the entire field unless you have extremely dark tattoos they are barely going to show up in-game. So basically they would be doing all this work, and paying all this licensing for something you would only see in-between plays or in replays. Truth is there are only a handful of players that I would want them to have tattoos for. I mean ideally all tattoos would be represented, but there are only a handful of players that I can think of that have tattoos so significant that it is weird not seeing them on their player models in-game. I can only name 2 off the top of my head; Kaepernick, and Tom Crabtree (Packers TE 2009-12, Bucs 2013, now a Free Agent).

I really do think it should be done the way Kaepernick handled it. The player should secure the rights for use of the tattoos in the game and then sell them to EA. EA should not have to seek out tattoo artists and secure the rights individually, because then you put the onus on EA to not only update the players every time they get a new tattoo (and depending on how busy their canvas is it could be that a new tattoo gets added but only the players would be able to point it out), but to secure the rights from a tattoo artist each time they do work on a player.

Basically if you want your brand as a player fully represented, it is up to you to make sure it is fully-represented.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Screenshot - Colin Kaepernick with Tattoos

OK, then why do NBA games seem to not have this problem, don't most players with tattoos in the NBA have them in NBA Live and NBA 2K?

Not sure, but this came down from the NFLPA on a lawsuit filed a year or two ago. Since then, the NFLPA told the players, make sure you get waiver rights.

Once burned, twice shy.

[Scratchboi]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Screenshot - Colin Kaepernick with Tattoos

That still doesn't explain why EA took out generic tattoos for created players....

[Mike Lowery]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Screenshot - Colin Kaepernick with Tattoos

Capturing someone's image is different from recreating someones image.

In a photoshoot you are taking their picture, when you create a digital model of someone you are recreating their body INCLUDING their tattoos.

It may seem similar but in the legal realm there is a big difference.



No one is saying that the NFL has the rights, it was only stated that it had to do with Artist rights. As in the tattoo artist who did the work has a legal claim to the reproduction of the tattoo.


For Those of you pointing out that NBA 2K, UFC, and WWE have tattoos so why can't Madden. Consider the fact that UFC has individually licensed fighters (and I assume the same goes for WWE), whereas the MLB, NBA, NHL and NFL all are licensed via players unions.

Brock Lesnar is going to want that sword down the middle of his chest if he is going to be represented in the game, so he's going to make the effort to secure those rights. Tattoos are a part of a fighter's brand, they are one way they market themselves. Lesnar's Sword Tattoo is a great example of this, even if you only see the pre-fight stuff you can separate him from the other hulk-like fighters by that sword going down his sternum. the fact that the fighters don't wear shirts means that if you were to ignore their tattoos for licensing reasons their absence would be even more glaring.

The NBA is similar to the UFC and WWE in terms of tattoos being a part of the players' brand, and players have more incentive to secure their brand, because of how often you can see the tattoos (entire arms are bare, and if you ever make it to the free-throw line your gonna have a HD camera front and center on you and your tattoos). So despite the fact that the player licensing is done through the Players Union for current players (individually for retired players), it actually makes sense for players to secure the licensing for their tattoos and it makes sense for 2K/EA to then make the effort to put them in the game.

When it comes to the NFL first off you have the most players of any sports gaming franchise (53 per team, and even more in the free agent pool), but also you have shoulder pads that eliminate pretty much every tattoos above mid-bicep (though with the way jerseys and pads are being worn nowadays you actually get a better view of almost the entire bicep). And with the way the camera distance pretty much has to be for you to see the entire field unless you have extremely dark tattoos they are barely going to show up in-game. So basically they would be doing all this work, and paying all this licensing for something you would only see in-between plays or in replays. Truth is there are only a handful of players that I would want them to have tattoos for. I mean ideally all tattoos would be represented, but there are only a handful of players that I can think of that have tattoos so significant that it is weird not seeing them on their player models in-game. I can only name 2 off the top of my head; Kaepernick, and Tom Crabtree (Packers TE 2009-12, Bucs 2013, now a Free Agent).

I really do think it should be done the way Kaepernick handled it. The player should secure the rights for use of the tattoos in the game and then sell them to EA. EA should not have to seek out tattoo artists and secure the rights individually, because then you put the onus on EA to not only update the players every time they get a new tattoo (and depending on how busy their canvas is it could be that a new tattoo gets added but only the players would be able to point it out), but to secure the rights from a tattoo artist each time they do work on a player.

Basically if you want your brand as a player fully represented, it is up to you to make sure it is fully-represented.

Not buying this, you're saying NFL players don't want their tattoos n the game? I willing to bet more than one player in the NFL wants their tattoos in the game. Kap is probably some test to get the audience reaction to see if they will add more tattoos in the game in the future. I have a feeling if 2K was still making NFL games all players with tattoos in the NFL would have them in the game.

[Hooe]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Screenshot - Colin Kaepernick with Tattoos

Merged threads for organization purposes.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Madden 15 ONLY Features Colin's Tattoos (No One Elses)

I mean, it's disappointing, sure, but the legal reasons keeping other players' tattoos out of the game are completely legitimate, as is what's being discussed in other threads. Particularly given how much litigation EA is facing from all fronts nowadays.

Hopefully we see more tattoos for more players in the future; who knows, maybe Kaepernick will start a trend.

It's just ea and the NFLPA being overly cautious in my opinion. I don't know but did 2k get the rights to use all the tattoos on NBA players?

In the end, this is meaningless either way for me. The sky view that is used as madden' s gameplay camera won't show them anyway, so tattoos in the game are slightly ahead of madden 10s animated hand towels as far as game improvements go anyways.

[Mike Lowery]

Re: Madden 15 ONLY Features Colin's Tattoos (No One Elses)

I call BS! In UFC and NBA games their players have tattoos. You mean to tell me only one player in the NFL wants their tattoos in the game? Not buying it, something seems fishy about this situation.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Screenshot - Colin Kaepernick with Tattoos

Not buying this, you're saying NFL players don't want their tattoos n the game? I willing to bet more than one player in the NFL wants their tattoos in the game. Kap is probably some test to get the audience reaction to see if they will add more tattoos in the game in the future. I have a feeling if 2K was still making NFL games all players with tattoos in the NFL would have them in the game.

I don't think he is saying this at all.

Ricky Williams had a tatoo on his bicep on the cover of NFL Street. The artist sued the NFL.

Once that happened, the NFLPA, took over and said, get a waiver claim if you want your tattoo to be reproduced.

[friscob]

Re: Madden 15 ONLY Features Colin's Tattoos (No One Elses)

I call BS! In UFC and NBA games their players have tattoos. You mean to tell me only one player in the NFL wants their tattoos in the game? Not buying it, something seems fishy about this situation.

Not fishy, just lazy. Havent been following that closely but are the tattoos of 1 player really the first thing theyve released about this game?

[Mike Lowery]

Re: Madden 15 ONLY Features Colin's Tattoos (No One Elses)

It's just ea and the NFLPA being overly cautious in my opinion. I don't know but did 2k get the rights to use all the tattoos on NBA players?

In the end, this is meaningless either way for me. The sky view that is used as madden' s gameplay camera won't show them anyway, so tattoos in the game are slightly ahead of madden 10s animated hand towels as far as game improvements go anyways.

People continue to make excuses for Madden and wonder why it's so far behind other sports games. What about in replays and close up camera angels? Not caring about the little things is whats gotten Madden in this hole.

[roadman]

Re: Madden 15 ONLY Features Colin's Tattoos (No One Elses)

Not fishy, just lazy. Havent been following that closely but are the tattoos of 1 player really the first thing theyve released about this game?

It's a buildup for E3 next week, I'm sure.

[testudoaubreii]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Screenshot - Colin Kaepernick with Tattoos

The second one I thought looked cartoonish. The first one looked great though. I think the final game actually looks on par with the first pic. As an example, here is an in-game shot I took a little while back:




The problem a lot of people had was that it didn't look quite on par with this:

One tiny thing that I noticed with that E3 shot is that when RGIII's fingers roll off of his helmet after covering the helmet's ear hole, they actually move over the contour of the helmet and face guard. It looks like his hand is really touching the surface of the helmet and not just gliding over it or going into it, like we see sometimes in actual gameplay. And, I don't think I have ever seen a QB bark out plays like that one. I would say that is a tell-tale sign of CGI.