FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

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  • DCEBB2001
    MVP
    • Nov 2008
    • 2569

    #1171
    Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

    Originally posted by CM Hooe
    Process question - how much do you weight your scouting data vs player performance on field over long stretches of time?

    For example, Joe Flacco. All of his accuracy ratings approach 90. However, his true accuracy percentage on Pro Football Focus (which corrects for dropped passes, passes tipped at the line of scrimmage, spikes, and passes where the quarterback is hit as he's thrown), Flacco finished 25th amongst all qualifying QBs in 2013 and finished in the 20s in the 2012 and 2011 seasons as well. Among active QBs, he's 17th in career completion percentage.

    How does your system weigh that against his high accuracy ratings which I presume are drawn straight from your scouting data? What am I missing from the equation here? Should I be looking instead at the Ravens' receivers not consistently running great routes and Flacco missing them on that accord and/or a poor pass blocking offensive line resulting in more throws under pressure?

    Again, I ask not as a criticism but for an understanding of process with a specific example that jumped out at me.

    Every player is graded as an individual only. Their abilities are what are reflected by their scores. The cause and effect of having other teammates on the field are not taken into account. What that means is, in a perfect, static, environment, how accurate is Flacco (per your example) at throwing short (<10yds), medium (10-25yds), and deep (25+yds) passes.

    Statistics play absolutely no part in any of this. It is all based on the player's individual traits based on what the scouting department that provides the data says. I mention this in the FAQ section of the website as well with another example. The reason for this is because any one of a million factors could affect Flacco's throw or the reception on any given play. That is not a fair measure of traits. They need to be calculated statically. Then, once every ability is graded and accounted for, you throw them all together.

    This approach throws production and statistics out of the equation. To quote "that head coach" in New England:

    "We are NOT in the business of scouting for PRODUCTION; we are in the business of scouting usable TRAITS".

    An example. Joe Flacco. By himself, we know he has a pretty big arm and has some decent accuracy along with some mobility issues. Standing alone in the pocket he can deliver some very nice passes. Now free-blitz 3 LBs at him. Good luck seeing comparable accuracy on those throws. The cause in having three LBs chasing after him caused his accuracy to dip as he was forced to throw on the run. That doesn't mean he is less accurate does it? Of course not. That would be a logical fallacy. What it does mean is that his lack of mobility and ability to throw while evading pressure DOES affect his accuracy.

    It is all about causation versus correlation. Sites like PFF don't take into account CAUSATION, but rather, look at mere CORRELATION. There is a big difference as correlation doesn't necessarily suggest causation.


    Make sense?
    Dan B.
    Player Ratings Administrator
    www.fbgratings.com/members
    NFL Scout
    www.nfldraftscout.com/members

    Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
    https://www.change.org/p/ea-sports-t...bers-index-php

    Comment

    • tbbucsfan001
      Pro
      • Aug 2009
      • 642

      #1172
      Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

      Originally posted by DCEBB2001
      Equal interval is by far the most ACCURATE method, especially for the interpolation of the scouting data. For instance, if the RET attribute scale is from 5.0 to 0.0 and the Madden range is 100 to 0, then you can determine that each 0.1 is equal to 2 points. Which makes sense, because if the scouting data says that Player A with a RET of 0.2 is twice as good at returning kicks and punts than Player B with a RET of 0.1, then that comes out to be a RET rating of 4 for Player A and 2 for Player B.

      The problem is that people totally freak out when they see how low the OVR ratings are....starters in the 60s. The version currently on the website is more traditional-FBG, which is closer to current Madden, but utilizes old FBG metrics. I personally love the equal interval method, but once again, when I did it last year, people freaked out a bit too much.
      Is there a way to see the players rated in this system?

      Comment

      • charter04
        Tecmo Super Bowl = GOAT
        • May 2010
        • 5740

        #1173
        Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

        Originally posted by tbbucsfan001
        Is there a way to see the players rated in this system?

        If you heave a 360 I can upload the roster I have with those ratings. It's from last season Madden 25
        www.twitch.tv/charter04

        https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPW...59SqVtXXFQVknw

        Comment

        • DCEBB2001
          MVP
          • Nov 2008
          • 2569

          #1174
          Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

          Originally posted by tbbucsfan001
          Is there a way to see the players rated in this system?
          Not unless I completely re-do every player in the database. Charter04 has a roster with the ratings for last season, so you can ask him. Otherwise, there is no way to toggle back and forth between systems.
          Dan B.
          Player Ratings Administrator
          www.fbgratings.com/members
          NFL Scout
          www.nfldraftscout.com/members

          Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
          https://www.change.org/p/ea-sports-t...bers-index-php

          Comment

          • DCEBB2001
            MVP
            • Nov 2008
            • 2569

            #1175
            Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

            Along the lines of the right "ratings system", I am wondering if someone would be willing to test all three systems and give me some direct feedback as to which one they prefer and list the pros and cons to each while playing with them in M25.

            Let me know if you are interested either by replying in the thread or via PM. Would be a cool weekend project. All you would have to do is rate the players accordingly (I will get you the ratings for each method), play a few games, be a keen observer, and take some notes. Then, give me a short writeup regarding the gameplay for each version.

            Anyone interested?
            Dan B.
            Player Ratings Administrator
            www.fbgratings.com/members
            NFL Scout
            www.nfldraftscout.com/members

            Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
            https://www.change.org/p/ea-sports-t...bers-index-php

            Comment

            • K33057
              Rookie
              • Mar 2012
              • 259

              #1176
              Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

              Do the ratings matter more in M-25 than the last couple of Maddens?
              A shame You don't do classic teams...

              Comment

              • DCEBB2001
                MVP
                • Nov 2008
                • 2569

                #1177
                Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

                Originally posted by K33057
                Do the ratings matter more in M-25 than the last couple of Maddens?
                A shame You don't do classic teams...
                If you mean if ratings in general matter more, IDK. I'm sure you can find some opinions/reviews here on OS about it though.

                As for the FBG ratings making a difference, there are some threads around here by roster makers who fully believe that they do make the gameplay better. Check the roster forum.
                Dan B.
                Player Ratings Administrator
                www.fbgratings.com/members
                NFL Scout
                www.nfldraftscout.com/members

                Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
                https://www.change.org/p/ea-sports-t...bers-index-php

                Comment

                • Streetfbmv
                  Rookie
                  • May 2009
                  • 34

                  #1178
                  Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

                  I'm looking forward to seeing how much these ratings effect Madden 15's match up stick they're implementing from the NCAA games. I feel that it has a chance to take that pre-play tool to the next level, as well as showing off where an individual athlete shines in the FBG rating system.

                  Comment

                  • charter04
                    Tecmo Super Bowl = GOAT
                    • May 2010
                    • 5740

                    #1179
                    Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

                    Originally posted by DCEBB2001
                    Along the lines of the right "ratings system", I am wondering if someone would be willing to test all three systems and give me some direct feedback as to which one they prefer and list the pros and cons to each while playing with them in M25.

                    Let me know if you are interested either by replying in the thread or via PM. Would be a cool weekend project. All you would have to do is rate the players accordingly (I will get you the ratings for each method), play a few games, be a keen observer, and take some notes. Then, give me a short writeup regarding the gameplay for each version.

                    Anyone interested?

                    I'll do that. Just pm me the info
                    www.twitch.tv/charter04

                    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPW...59SqVtXXFQVknw

                    Comment

                    • DCEBB2001
                      MVP
                      • Nov 2008
                      • 2569

                      #1180
                      Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

                      Originally posted by charter04
                      I'll do that. Just pm me the info
                      Will do. I will send you the info once I get everything put together.

                      Thanks!
                      Dan B.
                      Player Ratings Administrator
                      www.fbgratings.com/members
                      NFL Scout
                      www.nfldraftscout.com/members

                      Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
                      https://www.change.org/p/ea-sports-t...bers-index-php

                      Comment

                      • charter04
                        Tecmo Super Bowl = GOAT
                        • May 2010
                        • 5740

                        #1181
                        Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

                        Originally posted by DCEBB2001
                        Will do. I will send you the info once I get everything put together.

                        Thanks!
                        Hey man, I'm not going to be able to test. Looks like I'm going to be real busy for a little while. Sorry. Hopefully someone else will want to help
                        www.twitch.tv/charter04

                        https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPW...59SqVtXXFQVknw

                        Comment

                        • Hooe
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Aug 2002
                          • 21555

                          #1182
                          Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

                          I'd be interested in helping out, messing around with these re-rates is one of the primary reasons I picked up Madden 25 on the XBOX One in the first place.

                          Comment

                          • JMD
                            MVP
                            • Feb 2008
                            • 4456

                            #1183
                            Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

                            Is there a current roster available for download with these re-rated players?

                            Comment

                            • DCEBB2001
                              MVP
                              • Nov 2008
                              • 2569

                              #1184
                              Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

                              Originally posted by JMD
                              Is there a current roster available for download with these re-rated players?

                              Check the roster forum. FBG does not make rosters for download.
                              Dan B.
                              Player Ratings Administrator
                              www.fbgratings.com/members
                              NFL Scout
                              www.nfldraftscout.com/members

                              Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
                              https://www.change.org/p/ea-sports-t...bers-index-php

                              Comment

                              • Streetfbmv
                                Rookie
                                • May 2009
                                • 34

                                #1185
                                Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

                                I'd be willing to help out as well with the ratings test.

                                Comment

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