Madden NFL 15 Gameplay Video - Seattle Seahawks vs. San Francisco 49ers (Smitty)

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Gameplay Video - Seattle Seahawks vs. San Francisco 49ers (Smitty)

Let me get back to you on what Rex said because I know for a fact he didn't say they added suction tackling to make the game easier.

Giantblue76 said something to me the other day that made a lot of sense, in regard to tackling in Madden. If the other defenders actually assisted more, ie swarmed to the ball carrier and could get it on bringing down the ball carrier, tackling in Madden wouldn't seem like as much of a challenge.

I think that's where the gang tackling in ProTak at least offered some merit, allowing for some form a swarming. This seems like yet another area where a lack of animation variety, in this case gang tackling ones, holds Madden back. From a layman's POV it seems that suction is a result of there not being proper animations to trigger account for what's happening, so there is this warping effect. I think people have been saying for years that Madden needs way more attention on transition animations and animations as a whole.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Gameplay Video - Seattle Seahawks vs. San Francisco 49ers (Smitty)

Ok what Rex actually said about suction was...."with the way it was before you could be a foot away and miss the tackle because it didn't allow for spatial distance to make a tackle and in real life you're going to grab, lunge, reach, and dive to make a tackle. So part of the new mechanic is being able to match your tackle from a distance as long as you have the proper facing alignment."

So it wasn't about making it easier as much as it was making it more like real life. I understand that the old era left a bad taste in many people's mouths but you have to understand this is a new era and things are changing for the sake of realism not difficulty. If difficulty was the problem, why make QBs inaccurate and change that? It's easier if you can use whatever QB and be successful but the days of people using Terrelle Pryor like RG3 are over, ratings matter now and it's about time.

[Jakeness23]

This is why Madden doesn't deserve an exclusive license and why no sports game should have one in the first place.

[Jerros]

Wow factor... What is the wow factor in a sports game? To me, the WOW factor comes into play when I see something that resembles real life so closely that you can't believe that they included it in the game. I'll give a couple of examples of things that wowed me in the past. Years ago, I was playing a football game online against a friend. I called a screen play and I was trying to wait to throw it. I scrambled and managed to get the screen off. My HB caught the pass and I followed my brigade of lineman to the end zone for a 60 yard TD. Or so I thought... While I was running, I saw flags hit the field (yes, flags actually hit the field). Ineligible receiver downfield! Both of us had to pause and talk about how cool that was for at least 10 minutes.

Instance number 2. Playing the same friend online, I drop back to pass and complete a 20 yard seam pass to my TE. First down - but again, flags everywhere. I had kept my halfback in to block, but what I noticed was that while my left tackle was engaged with the RDE, my HB went and took out the legs of the DE. Chop Block! My reaction? "Are you kidding me?!!! That's in the game??? That's awesome!!".

Instance 3: Playing a friend online. Pass is thrown deep down the left sideline. My corner is trailing in good position but while the ball is in the air, he pulls up grabs his hamstring, stumbles, limps and goes to the ground. TD! My corner pulled his hamstring on the play!

Now - do any of these things sound like ground breaking occurrences when it comes to the game of football? Are any of these things something that were invented by the World of Warcraft development team? They create the WOW factor because they are elements that I see happen in REAL LIFE. When I see my corner drop back into a zone, never even touch the receiver as he goes through my zone, then stand flat footed covering an empty patch of grass, the game has already lost me and my interest. When my middle linebacker drops back into the back of the end zone when the ball is inside the 10 and he lets the TE run WIDE OPEN in front of me without even an attempt at coverage in the zone the game has already lost me. When my linebacker blitzes and instead of running through the gap he's supposed to, he takes a direct path into a blocker, the game has already lost me. All of these things are still happening in Madden in 2014, yet all 3 of the instances of the items I mentioned above are completely absent from the game. Couple that with the fact that Tiburon is telling me that this is the most authentic, smartest and best playing Madden ever, how can anyone take this game seriously?

Sent from my KFAPWI using Tapatalk

I couldn't agree more. This is a good example of how the game has been stripped down over the years. Sadly, a lot of diehard Madden fans enjoy the fact that linebackers take poor pursuit angles and pathing. They love the money plays and cheap exploits which is what makes Madden arcadey to begin with.

I remember when football video games had a lot of authentic elements like the flags thrown and actual penalties called like late hits on the field or out of bounds. But those versions of the game we're referring to were created when Madden had competition that forced them to add these elements if they wanted to keep up. But back to your point, you are absolutely right. Wow factor additions would be to make the game play and flow like real football. For me, I would love to see them just rebuild the entire thing from the ground up. Get some real players into the studio and have them replicate true football moves and play styles. How awesome would it be to see Adrian Peterson running like Adrian Peterson. Or to see J.J. Watt for the Texans playing like himself deflecting passes and wreaking havoc. This is 2014, I don't think its too much to ask to have individual player animations. Also, I'd love to see the flags thrown on the field again. I remember when Madden had replays on penalties showing which player actually did the crime and how they did it. Where did that go. What about adding a REAL halftime show where during halftime you were shown highlights from games around the league. There was a version of Madden that had a similar feature where at the end of your game, it would take you to the last few minutes of a game still in progress. That was amazing at the time. Where did innovations like that go? The chain gang use to actually run out on the field. So many things that got stripped away for no good reason. Now we just get the same game over and over. EA needs to change their slogan from "Its in the game" to "It use to be in the game".

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Gameplay Video - Seattle Seahawks vs. San Francisco 49ers (Smitty)

No no JP. You are confusing games because little things is not what people care about.

We've been asking for actual football, save the little things until they have that down.

Like most people on forums like this, we tend to see things in a vacuum. What's a little thing to some is HUGE to others. When WR/DB interactions and gang tackling are addressed soon, it will be a huge deal to many people on here, but for others the QB in accuracy being addressed this year, will be just as big. For others, getting rid of cutscenes and having real time celebrations is big, for many people, they will be blown away by Madden 15 because graphically it "looks real". For some, every year will be the same old Madden because the player movement hasn't been addressed the way that it needs to be, but the year it is, this dev team will be looked at differently all of the sudden. Then there's the crowd that want their teams equipment, faces, stadiums, socks, etc... to be perfect. There's also the people that want penalties to be fixed and working properly.

Whichever of these are the most important to you, once they're addressed, then you will feel like the game is "there".

This team wants to appeal to all of this, but rest assured the gameplay is first and foremost and simulation is their goal. I know things like WR/DB interactions, better player movement animations, gang tackling etc... are coming very soon, but I'm just curious to see what you guys will be saying then about this team, when all along they planned on addressing these things.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Gameplay Video - Seattle Seahawks vs. San Francisco 49ers (Smitty)

I think you hit the nail on the head with this in bold. I think the reason why Madden doesn't have that WOW factor is because all players play like they are playing in a charity event or something like half speed. There is no sense of urgency when running, it doesn't look like they are sprinting for their lives. Take a look at this run by Kap, the way he runs looks like he's running for his life.

http://youtu.be/ftLfmArTngE?t=1m23s

For me, if they change the robotic animations to smooth organic animations that would be a WOW factor for me. I also think that is why Madden has that same stale feel to it. Cause we've seen the same animations now for about a decade that are robotic and clunky.

Totally agree. Also there's no flow to the animations and controls. It's all twitchy. That's why imo it feels so arcade. That's one thing the PS2 era Madden had more so than this gen and last gen. The running flowed together better with jukes, catches, ect. Everything just feels so damn twitchy. Not to mention the animations are so short and choppy, nothing flows together at all. Add in the sliding, it's just a mess. Just seems like there's something missing in between animations.

Madden in motion is definitely the worst looking sports game we have today. I can't think of anything worse. Not saying there haven't been worse moving sports games, but Madden is the worse one left from what I've seen.

If this team can conquer that finally, Madden probably wouldn't look so stale and it probably wouldn't be as boring after days of play.

[NDIrish98]

looks ok, but how hard is it to implement a decent replay camera?

[Pinnaql3]

And why in the hell are players still wearing helmets on the sidelines??

[Kramer5150]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Gameplay Video - Seattle Seahawks vs. San Francisco 49ers (Smitty)

Like most people on forums like this, we tend to see things in a vacuum. What's a little thing to some is HUGE to others. When WR/DB interactions and gang tackling are addressed soon, it will be a huge deal to many people on here, but for others the QB in accuracy being addressed this year, will be just as big. For others, getting rid of cutscenes and having real time celebrations is big, for many people, they will be blown away by Madden 15 because graphically it "looks real". For some, every year will be the same old Madden because the player movement hasn't been addressed the way that it needs to be, but the year it is, this dev team will be looked at differently all of the sudden. Then there's the crowd that want their teams equipment, faces, stadiums, socks, etc... to be perfect. There's also the people that want penalties to be fixed and working properly.

Whichever of these are the most important to you, once they're addressed, then you will feel like the game is "there".

This team wants to appeal to all of this, but rest assured the gameplay is first and foremost and simulation is their goal. I know things like WR/DB interactions, better player movement animations, gang tackling etc... are coming very soon, but I'm just curious to see what you guys will be saying then about this team, when all along they planned on addressing these things.

Oh really?? and what is the timeline on this? PS5 and Xbox 720?

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Gameplay Video - Seattle Seahawks vs. San Francisco 49ers (Smitty)

This team wants to appeal to all of this, but rest assured the gameplay is first and foremost and simulation is their goal. I know things like WR/DB interactions, better player movement animations, gang tackling etc... are coming very soon, but I'm just curious to see what you guys will be saying then about this team, when all along they planned on addressing these things.

"These things" are being added far too ssllloooowwwwwllllllyyyyyyy.
At the pace they are going, the game will never get there.
And where is the realistic off field (franchise) modes?


And while the gameplay is slowly being addressed, where are the franchise guys? I thought the development was compartmentalized. I won't really be happy with Madden until their is a realistic offseason/off field franchise. I want the game to stop making me feel like I'm putting a quarter into a coin slot. So far, all we've heard is "practice has changed".

I'm curious what you will be saying 3 years from now. I could take a guess at this.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Gameplay Video - Seattle Seahawks vs. San Francisco 49ers (Smitty)

Like most people on forums like this, we tend to see things in a vacuum. What's a little thing to some is HUGE to others. When WR/DB interactions and gang tackling are addressed soon, it will be a huge deal to many people on here, but for others the QB in accuracy being addressed this year, will be just as big. For others, getting rid of cutscenes and having real time celebrations is big, for many people, they will be blown away by Madden 15 because graphically it "looks real". For some, every year will be the same old Madden because the player movement hasn't been addressed the way that it needs to be, but the year it is, this dev team will be looked at differently all of the sudden. Then there's the crowd that want their teams equipment, faces, stadiums, socks, etc... to be perfect. There's also the people that want penalties to be fixed and working properly.

Whichever of these are the most important to you, once they're addressed, then you will feel like the game is "there".

This team wants to appeal to all of this, but rest assured the gameplay is first and foremost and simulation is their goal. I know things like WR/DB interactions, better player movement animations, gang tackling etc... are coming very soon, but I'm just curious to see what you guys will be saying then about this team, when all along they planned on addressing these things.

Glad for you that you are enthusiastic about the game, but for me it's more than just talking about the things they are adding/want to add. Those things have to actually WORK. A lot of the issues I see are implementation issues. The ideas and design (Clint and Rex) seem great. However, if it doesn't work in game, then all of that is meaningless.

[FBall Life]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Gameplay Video - Seattle Seahawks vs. San Francisco 49ers (Smitty)

Giantblue76 said something to me the other day that made a lot of sense, in regard to tackling in Madden. If the other defenders actually assisted more, ie swarmed to the ball carrier and could get it on bringing down the ball carrier, tackling in Madden wouldn't seem like as much of a challenge.

I think that's where the gang tackling in ProTak at least offered some merit, allowing for some form a swarming. This seems like yet another area where a lack of animation variety, in this case gang tackling ones, holds Madden back. From a layman's POV it seems that suction is a result of there not being proper animations to trigger account for what's happening, so there is this warping effect. I think people have been saying for years that Madden needs way more attention on transition animations and animations as a whole.

The more I see EA trying to go the physics route, the more I disagree with the approach. Maybe try it again in another 5 years or so, because right now, it's just not ready.

Look at Madden 12. No suction. All tackles were made at the point of contact. You had consecutive hit tackles. Tackling was entirely animation based, no physics, and it was the best tackling system Madden ever had, imo of course. And then there's that other football game series. All animation based tackling. No actual physics models at work.

If EA can't get physics right, give us a system that works. Have a team working on physics in the background and reintroduce it later. Animation based tackling is still better at this current stage. Heck, that other game had animations for up to 3 defenders on the ball carrier. Yet, in Madden 25, you had an uninterruptable stiff arm tackle that only one player can engage in.

Physics aren't implemented the way they should be and make the game a visual eyesore, and that's aside from the terrible running animations and footwork.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Gameplay Video - Seattle Seahawks vs. San Francisco 49ers (Smitty)

The more I see EA trying to go the physics route, the more I disagree with the approach. Maybe try it again in another 5 years or so, because right now, it's just not ready.

Look at Madden 12. No suction. All tackles were made at the point of contact. You had consecutive hit tackles. Tackling was entirely animation based, no physics, and it was the best tackling system Madden ever had, imo of course. And then there's that other football game series. All animation based tackling. No actual physics models at work.

If EA can't get physics right, give us a system that works. Have a team working on physics in the background and reintroduce it later. Animation based tackling is still better at this current stage. Heck, that other game had animations for up to 3 defenders on the ball carrier. Yet, in Madden 25, you had an uninterruptable stiff arm tackle that only one player can engage in.

Physics aren't implemented the way they should be and make the game a visual eyesore, and that's aside from the terrible running animations and footwork.

No way they can go backwards. People would have a fit. People begged and begged for physics and forgot who was the team that was going to be implementing them, lmao. I never thought Madden needed physics when it got it, but it brought people back to the game. I agree with you though.

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Gameplay Video - Seattle Seahawks vs. San Francisco 49ers (Smitty)

[...] I understand that the old era left a bad taste in many people's mouths but you have to understand this is a new era and things are changing for the sake of realism not difficulty. If difficulty was the problem, why make QBs inaccurate and change that? It's easier if you can use whatever QB and be successful but the days of people using Terrelle Pryor like RG3 are over, ratings matter now and it's about time.

I appreciate where you are directing our attention and can understand why (EA Madden) would proceed with caution to save from overwhelming the casual gamer with too much stress on simulation.

I will state however that there is more to be done in respect to proclaiming, "those days are over" so I will remain in the wait and see mode and see how they add onto these initiatives in future iterations.

For too long it has looked like a simple scattering of seeds when it comes to harvesting plans for Madden: it is time to see these value added implementations take root and flourish into extensions of the greater good.

Rex and his crew still have much ploughing and weeding out to be done in the Tiburon fields of Madden.



Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk

[drlw322]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Gameplay Video - Seattle Seahawks vs. San Francisco 49ers (Smitty)

Ok what Rex actually said about suction was...."with the way it was before you could be a foot away and miss the tackle because it didn't allow for spatial distance to make a tackle and in real life you're going to grab, lunge, reach, and dive to make a tackle. So part of the new mechanic is being able to match your tackle from a distance as long as you have the proper facing alignment."

So it wasn't about making it easier as much as it was making it more like real life. I understand that the old era left a bad taste in many people's mouths but you have to understand this is a new era and things are changing for the sake of realism not difficulty. If difficulty was the problem, why make QBs inaccurate and change that? It's easier if you can use whatever QB and be successful but the days of people using Terrelle Pryor like RG3 are over, ratings matter now and it's about time.

If that's the case why not use your time to create reach or lunge animation to trip the players or make contact with the players and let the physic take over when contact is made.

Instead they created a gimmick feature that sucks you into a animation and take once the animation is determine all defender stops.