EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

[bkrich83]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

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Yes now I remember that one. Ughh. That was unexcusable. Bug? Absolutely. Game breaking enough to halt release? Absolutely not.

09 was a terrible game in a long line of terrible Madden releases but it wasn't "broken".

[Valdarez]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

Sales have been flat. Madden 13 was hyped by pointing to 1.6 million in first week sales, but that was actually down from 1.9 for Madden 11.

http://vgsales.wikia.com/wiki/Madden_NFL

Madden 25 sales were down to 1 million in the first week. 600,000 less than 13.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain...ts-first-week/

You can point to declining ps2 sales, the transition to new systems last year, etc. It may have contributed but sales are clearly down. I've also pointed out nba 2k actually outsold madden on the new systems. Having a basketball game outsell a football game on any console is telling in my opinion.

How is the game selling year over year? I put together this chart on Madden sales several years ago. At that time, EASports was claiming sales were down because of the recession.

[bkrich83]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

IMO it was much better than NBA Today that 2k has.

.

It really was. When NBA today first hit, I was expecting it to be much like the Live version. Disappointing implementation of that game mode, in what I believe to be an otherwise outstanding game.

[Valdarez]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

In fact, most game critics think that Madden is actually a good game. Not the best sports game on the market, but good and competent. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a game that is merely good.

I was about to say this is wrong, but you are right CMHooe. I tend to read reviews from GiantBomb and GameSpot who constantly pan the game. However, a quick read of Metacritic shows it gets roughly an 80 overall year after year, which is the review equivalent of a good game. Now, if you look at the user scores they are WAY below that (usually 5 to 6). So there's definitely a disconnect between users and critics.

[Valdarez]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

Based on my limited experience with Madden 2006 which I did not buy on the XBOX 360 - it was a subpar game on account of poor commentary and presentation, 30 frame-per-second refresh rate, lack of depth in game mechanics, blocky-looking players, average gameplay, and lack of depth in gameplay modes, but it was not fundamentally broken and non-functional.

I'm not sure what you mean by refresh rate, but Madden NEVER had a 30 fps rendering rate on any title released last generation (XBox360 / PS3). It's why the game looked so choppy. Last I heard was average rate was 21 fps with an occasional 24 fps burst, depending on the situation.

[bkrich83]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

I'm not sure what you mean by refresh rate, but Madden NEVER had a 30 fps rendering rate on any title released last generation (XBox360 / PS3). It's why the game looked so choppy. Last I heard was average rate was 21 fps with an occasional 24 fps burst, depending on the situation.

Seems about right to me. It's not choppy to me but inconsistent, if that makes sense.

Source on that data?

[Valdarez]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

Seems about right to me. It's not choppy to me but inconsistent, if that makes sense.

Source on that data?

Rather not say as I don't have their permission to share. It was someone on the Tiburon team though in 2011 time frame.

It's why it's misleading when they say the game plays at 60 FPS. It does 'play' that fast, meaning decisions in the game are made in that time frame, but updates / rendering of the graphics only occur roughly 21 FPS due to the design method they chose. That's why everyone thinks the animations look so choppy / robotic. Hoping rendering issue was fixed in the the move to next generation (XBoxOne / PS4).

[Hooe]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

So there's definitely a disconnect between users and critics.

Some of that is just The Internet doing its hate train thing though.

There's also a two-point or greater difference in review score and reader score with Titanfall (multi platform), Dark Souls 2 (PC), Fez (PS4), Threes (PS4), Minecraft (PS3), FIFA 14 (PC), NBA 2K14 (multiplatform), and so on.

Generally speaking, the video game community on the internet can be very toxic; if they get peeved at any little one thing, the pitchforks come out. It's alarming to an extent.

Not attempting to be but so dismissive here, though, I'm plenty willing to admit Madden has its warts it needs to iron out.

I'm not sure what you mean by refresh rate, but Madden NEVER had a 30 fps rendering rate on any title released last generation (XBox360 / PS3). It's why the game looked so choppy. Last I heard was average rate was 21 fps with an occasional 24 fps burst, depending on the situation.

I'm plenty willing to be wrong here but my impression was that Madden 06 launched at (all during core gameplay) 30 frames per second, then 07 was 60 FPS on 360 and 30 on PS3, and then 08 got them both up to 60.

To be specific I'm referring to the rendering rate, apologies on confusion.

[Hooe]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

Rather not say as I don't have their permission to share. It was someone on the Tiburon team though in 2011 time frame.

It's why it's misleading when they say the game plays at 60 FPS. It does 'play' that fast, meaning decisions in the game are made in that time frame, but updates / rendering of the graphics only occur roughly 21 FPS due to the design method they chose. That's why everyone thinks the animations look so choppy / robotic. Hoping rendering issue was fixed in the the move to next generation (XBoxOne / PS4).

This is interesting to me, though part of me is at least a bit curious about that number about this because my gut tells me that the internet would crucify any console game which didn't render at at least 30 FPS, and we never really heard that about Madden.

I also feel like I'd be able to tell if the game wasn't rendering at at least 30 FPS and immediately notice, given that my eyes are good enough to spot the difference between 30 and 60.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, if you have sources you have sources and I'll take your word for it; it's just a bit puzzling to my intuition, that's all.

[Valdarez]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

This is interesting to me, though part of me is at least a bit curious about that number about this because my gut tells me that the internet would crucify any console game which didn't render at at least 30 FPS, and we never really heard that about Madden.

I also feel like I'd be able to tell if the game wasn't rendering at at least 30 FPS and immediately notice, given that my eyes are good enough to spot the difference between 30 and 60.

Again, I'm not saying you're wrong, if you have sources you have sources and I'll take your word for it; it's just a bit puzzling to my intuition, that's all.

Nope, you'd think, but their marketing push of 60FPS gaming bowled folks over. It's why the game looks so choppy. If EA games is what you primarily play, then you might not notice it as much, but coming from a 2K game to Madden on last generation was extremely jarring. If you ever want to test it, run a play and watch it play out, and then go into a replay and play it out in slow motion. It's remarkably smooth in slow motion, yet choppy as can be when played in real time. That's due to missing frames. Our mind tries to fill in those frames, but our mind can only do so much.

We had several discussion on the board about it back then, and EA's reps at the time wouldn't touch the topic on any level. Definitely a hot potato.

I imagine after the move to next generation is complete in two to three years, EA will be more willing to divulge issues like this more openly (as they hype / prop up something new).

[SamuraiX]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

Some of that is just The Internet doing its hate train thing though.

There's also a two-point or greater difference in review score and reader score with Titanfall (multi platform), Dark Souls 2 (PC), Fez (PS4), Threes (PS4), Minecraft (PS3), FIFA 14 (PC), NBA 2K14 (multiplatform), and so on.

Generally speaking, the video game community on the internet can be very toxic; if they get peeved at any little one thing, the pitchforks come out. It's alarming to an extent.

Not attempting to be but so dismissive here, though, I'm plenty willing to admit Madden has its warts it needs to iron out.



I'm plenty willing to be wrong here but my impression was that Madden 06 launched at (all during core gameplay) 30 frames per second, then 07 was 60 FPS on 360 and 30 on PS3, and then 08 got them both up to 60.

To be specific I'm referring to the rendering rate, apologies on confusion.

I think the thing is alot of the reviewers from these gaming sites don't really know anything about football or at least not enough to make the in depth critiques that alot of people do for Madden. As long as it has some semblance of football they're gonna say it's good.

[Valdarez]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

I think the thing is alot of the reviewers from these gaming sites don't really know anything about football or at least not enough to make the in depth critiques that alot of people do for Madden. As long as it has some semblance of football they're gonna say it's good.

Good point. Hard-core sports gamers, and those looking for a simulation experience are going to be far harder on the game than the average reviewer. That's regardless of sport or game.

[JaymeeAwesome]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

I think the thing is alot of the reviewers from these gaming sites don't really know anything about football or at least not enough to make the in depth critiques that alot of people do for Madden. As long as it has some semblance of football they're gonna say it's good.

I would think that gaming sites would review the game just as that...a game. They are looking for graphics, playability, replay factor, and overall fun as a game. Sports gamers review the game as how much real to life it is. What you don't hear is the average joe gamer....I would expect them to follow the critics. Good news for EA is that most of their fan base is your average joe gamer.

[Hooe]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

I think the thing is alot of the reviewers from these gaming sites don't really know anything about football or at least not enough to make the in depth critiques that alot of people do for Madden. As long as it has some semblance of football they're gonna say it's good.

No, the game isn't being given a pass for having "a semblance of football".

The game is being reviewed as good because it has a variety of gameplay modes, presents interesting challenges to users, has interesting and balanced gameplay mechanics, and has a lot of depth and nearly infinite replay value.

These things transcend whatever genre of game you want to put Madden in. That's what mainstream video game review sites are looking for - is Madden an entertaining video game and worthy of purchase compared to all other options?

Hardcore fans of the genre will evaluate the game through a much more focused lens, yes, but that doesn't invalidate the opinion of the average video gamer or the mainstream video game reviewer, who may be introducing the game to a person who has never played it before.

[SamuraiX]

Re: EA Still Owns the NFL License Exclusively

No, the game isn't being given a pass for having "a semblance of football".

The game is being reviewed as good because it has a variety of gameplay modes, presents interesting challenges to users, has interesting and balanced gameplay mechanics, and has a lot of depth and nearly infinite replay value.

These things transcend whatever genre of game you want to put Madden in. That's what mainstream video game review sites are looking for - is Madden an entertaining video game and worthy of purchase compared to all other options?

Hardcore fans of the genre will evaluate the game through a much more focused lens, yes, but that doesn't invalidate the opinion of the average video gamer or the mainstream video game reviewer, who may be introducing the game to a person who has never played it before.

Yes all that is great to have if your looking strictly from a video game point of view but let's not forget Madden is supposed to be a simulation videogame first and foremost. That means how the gameplay mechanics compare to real world football is just as if not more important than all those things you listed.