Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

Just noticed something I really liked in the trailer. At about :27 seconds I saw that the Eagles lineman was beat and instead of just standing there flat footed and dumb like in Madden 25, he was actually chasing behind the defender. I know it was mentioned by Clint on twitter, but it was nice to see it in the footage.

Also noticing that guys are still putting hands on defenders even if they're beat. It's nice to see evidence of the interactions and player sense improving.

[wordtobigbird]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

Just noticed something I really liked in the trailer. At about :27 seconds I saw that the Eagles lineman was beat and instead of just standing there flat footed and dumb like in Madden 25, he was actually chasing behind the defender. I know it was mentioned by Clint on twitter, but it was nice to see it in the footage.

Also noticing that guys are still putting hands on defenders even if they're beat. It's nice to see evidence of the interactions and player sense improving.

At :14 you see the RB help on the double team, knock the defender down with him and both get up and continue the play. RB chip blocks?

[juduking]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

It looks like height and weight do not matter when tackling again this year. All of these tackles looked purely hit power ratings. Lynch gets trucked, Shonne Green gets dismantled, Matt Forte gets plowed. These are large very muscular human beings and are just getting thrown around like they are weightless. I asked Clint on twitter if he knew about editing height and weight but have yet to hear back from him. I hope they can clear it up and that this video was just showing "extreme" cases of big time hits.

[SageInfinite]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

At :14 you see the RB help on the double team, knock the defender down with him and both get up and continue the play. RB chip blocks?

Definitely looks like it. They were in Madden 25 next gen, but weren't consistent. This game looks like a much better overall product than Madden 25. Looks can be deceiving though. The game seems so far away.

[wordtobigbird]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

It looks like height and weight do not matter when tackling again this year. All of these tackles looked purely hit power ratings. Lynch gets trucked, Shonne Green gets dismantled, Matt Forte gets plowed. These are large very muscular human beings and are just getting thrown around like they are weightless. I asked Clint on twitter if he knew about editing height and weight but have yet to hear back from him. I hope they can clear it up and that this video was just showing "extreme" cases of big time hits.

Unfortunately it's clear it's not there yet as far as physics go. What will be importance is the frequency of these types of hits. Like with the M25 the RB won the battle with his truck move more often than not. Especially a human RB. Also look at who's doing the hitting. Willis, Keuchly, Cushing, Mayo, Briggs. Lofton's hit wasn't as brutal. I mentioned it before but I'm still waiting to see the risk reward of the tackling system. They talked about how balanced the game is in that other interview so time will tell. Getting an Xbox One for this (and Destiny and playing online with my friends again) most likely.

[NicVirtue]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

It looks like height and weight do not matter when tackling again this year. All of these tackles looked purely hit power ratings. Lynch gets trucked, Shonne Green gets dismantled, Matt Forte gets plowed. These are large very muscular human beings and are just getting thrown around like they are weightless. I asked Clint on twitter if he knew about editing height and weight but have yet to hear back from him. I hope they can clear it up and that this video was just showing "extreme" cases of big time hits.

That's my biggest issue. I get there's a hit power rating for fancy, powerful looking tackles. But it seems like the weight, size and strength of the ball carrier does not matter when it comes to the hit stick. Usually, the only thing that negates hit power, is trucking or elusiveness, and that should not be the case.

[Demoncrom]

The animations actually looked good there, except those tackles where it's like a WWE shoulder charge. Those have got to go Tiburon. If you gonna have those power hits the defender has to go down as well. This ain't wrestling. I'm trying to believe they're taking the sim route, but leaving stuff like this in, it's hard to tell.

Have to agree

[ggsimmonds]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

I don't have a problem with the flying shoulder tackles. I see those all the time. I have a problem with the shoulder charges in Madden. Where the defender runs the player over and then stands over him with his chest out. I don't see those in the NFL. The only way I could even see it happening is if another player already knocked the ball carrier off balance and then someone else came in to finish the tackle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ti1hUdylmmQ

3:05, 3:25-3:26, 3:45, 3:58, 4:10, 5:08, 5:12, 5:28

I agree with the overall point though, the big boy tackles happen way too frequently and in situations that do not make sense. I only posted that vid because you said you don't see those plays in the NFL. Just stirring the pot a bit.

EDIT:

Just so people don't misunderstand me I thought I would say a few more things.

First I have another video for you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQy8h1kxO6c

This is the famous 2k challenge/we are making a sim game vid. But direct your attention to the 3:40 mark. Not what I wanted to hear, but I also sympathize with Rex on this one. In the same interview we have a guy wanting "sim" gameplay and for EA to bring the "pop" back. Tough position.

EA needs to improve the physics on hits. In the Reed video and many other hits videos you will see guys, typically near the sideline, come in at roughly a 45 degree angle. Often times the result is that the ballcarrier's legs go flying. I rarely see this in Madden. Even if a defender comes at that angle the resulting hit is more of a forward type hit. The angles do not seem to matter enough in Madden. This should be corrected.

Finally, something that would alleviate the problem a great deal is to make the hard hit rating matter in a realistic way. As far as I know, and someone correct me if I am wrong, the rating primarily impacts fumble chance. If I try to hit stick with a CB who has a 55 hit power rating and 50 strength the result should be a comical failure most times. In Madden it is not. As it is now you can hit stick with corners all game, the only difference are the fumbles. Obviously we would prefer real physics to determine outcomes, but seeing as how that is not likely in the near future, instead restrict certain big hit animations. Flick the hit stick with your 185 lb corner all you want, but it should not trigger an actual big hit.

Physics and angles EA.

[StefJoeHalt]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

GG going to add on to ur comment here "If I try to hit stick with a CB who has a 55 hit power rating and 50 strength the result should be a comical failure most times. In Madden it is not. As it is now you can hit stick with corners all game, the only difference are the fumbles. Obviously we would prefer real physics to determine outcomes, but seeing as how that is not likely in the near future, instead restrict certain big hit animations. Flick the hit stick with your 185 lb corner all you want, but it should not trigger an actual big hit."

If they want to see how to implement hit stick failure ( animations)..see Eagles 2013 Patrick Chung and Cary Williams..just the game tape should provide alone what's should happen...as a die hard Eagles fan..it's a sin to highlight the negative.. But god..Eagles game tape of their defense over the past several years should be enough "material" for any dev to understand what it's like for bad tackles and bad attempted "big hits"




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[K_GUN]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

game is looking great...cant wait

[SmittyD81]

Et tu, Smitty?

I don't know you personally man but I did and have followed your Youtube videos, radio show, etc, kind of surprised maybe to see you take such a stance. I agree gamers expect to have a big impact occur when using a "big hit" button but that doesn't need to translate into an outcome out of context for the situation. I think any gamer would be just as satisfied to see the in-game player attempt a "big hit" and they receive the worst end of it if applicable, like in real life.

"Like I said, I agree that it should be nullified to an extent" is what I clearly stated. The type and style of big hit tackles need to be reduced and/or modified, and I agreed with Sage's point as I know where he's coming from.

[SmittyD81]

90% of those hits involve the hitter going down as well. The majority of big hits in Madden look like it came out a fighting game. It's not big hits being in Madden that's in question, it's HOW they are done.

I understand what you're saying, but those types of big hits happen in the NFL. When trying to depict a DYNAMICALLY CHAOTIC sport like football, there is no manuscript to follow that says how a "big hit" can be depicted in video game form/real life, or who can make the big hit. As you seen in that video, the tackling can be VERY violent in appearance, but can also be very textbook too. ESPN, NFL Network or someones top 10 plays doesn't determine how an element can or should be played out. It just needs to be in the game as an available tool to be utilized. The caliber of the hit, depending on the player ratings, size, situation, etc. should determine how the hit can play out.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

"Like I said, I agree that it should be nullified to an extent" is what I clearly stated. The type and style of big hit tackles need to be reduced and/or modified, and I agreed with Sage's point as I know where he's coming from.

I hear you man, it's just those caveats that get thrown out there to excuse or minimize Madden implementation issues, are besides the point, imo. Gamers expecting the big hit button to cause a violent collision doesn't justify or excuse the way those shoulder tackles can currently occur in Madden. Don't want to see you fall into that habit of feeling the need to try to spin a Madden gameplay issue into a positive, like I have seen so many others close to the creative process do.

That's what I was talking about in that post, anyway, thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.

[NicVirtue]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

I understand what you're saying, but those types of big hits happen in the NFL. When trying to depict a DYNAMICALLY CHAOTIC sport like football, there is no manuscript to follow that says how a "big hit" can be depicted in video game form/real life, or who can make the big hit. As you seen in that video, the tackling can be VERY violent in appearance, but can also be very textbook too. ESPN, NFL Network or someones top 10 plays doesn't determine how an element can or should be played out. It just needs to be in the game as an available tool to be utilized. The caliber of the hit, depending on the player ratings, size, situation, etc. should determine how the hit can play out.

In context. They do. In Madden, they seem to just happen based on hit power rating, more so than in the appropriate context. Nearly all the clips of big hits provided so far, that were similar to the ones in Madden were done in the right context, where a receiver was not even ready to make a move once he caught the ball. There's a clip in the trailer that has Patrick Willis smashing Marshawn Lynch as if he isn't Marshawn Lynch, while he's running squared up. I have NEVER seen Lynch get blown up by any 1 man in that context, and in that manner.

And there have been times in the past when people would say "oh they're just showing it off for the trailer, you won't be able to do it that easy in the final game", and when the final product comes out, any and everyone can do it. Not saying you're saying that, but I can feel that notion coming on. It's just like the stiff arms from NCAA. I'm not saying take the hit stick out the game, I'm saying that even if a guy like Patrick Willis tries to blow up Marshawn Lynch, while he's running straight at him, then those WWE style hits should not be in the animation pool, as Lynch is not one to be thrown around by 1 man. Not because his trucking is 100, but because he keeps his feet moving/churning and his size/strength plays a role as well. Madden has the wrong ratings doing the work.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Tackling Mechanics

I understand what you're saying, but those types of big hits happen in the NFL. When trying to depict a DYNAMICALLY CHAOTIC sport like football, there is no manuscript to follow that says how a "big hit" can be depicted in video game form/real life, or who can make the big hit. As you seen in that video, the tackling can be VERY violent in appearance, but can also be very textbook too. ESPN, NFL Network or someones top 10 plays doesn't determine how an element can or should be played out. It just needs to be in the game as an available tool to be utilized. The caliber of the hit, depending on the player ratings, size, situation, etc. should determine how the hit can play out.

For me, the issue with those hits is how the defender is always in a position to do it. I think if the contextual awareness was better, and the way you can attempt to tackle had more to do with how the defender's positioning was at that moment it would do a lot of good for the game. I find it silly that I force fumbles all of the time with Prince Amukumara. I see him level receivers with that big hit nonsense 6 times a game. Really? Prince is a strong corner, but he's not LaRon Landry or the second coming of Jack Tatum. Those are the kinds of things that ruin your immersion experience because it's laughable. If I am playing on Rookie level or even Pro, maybe I can understand, but on All Madden, I don't want to see that nonsense. Especially on plays where it's a WR screen and he comes running in and just flattens the receiver. When do you see that? He'd probably be going low to attempt to wrap up his legs. These are the types of things that if you simply watch an NFL game, even just one quarter, you can see how players interact and tackle. These big, silly hits are not that common, but when they do happen, they should be accurately represented in the game in the right context. Not just because I decided to use the hit stick.