Madden NFL 15 Trailer and Screenshots - Player Sense 2.0

[Mintsa]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Player Sense 2.0

I really hope defense is a huge factor this year. I haven't felt that I can hold someone defensively since Madden 2005.

[countryboy]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer - Player Sense 2.0

Why? The Raiders will still stink! That said, this is the first thing that has really hyped me. D in Madden? Who'd of thunk it!

Hey! I will not tolerate you spewing the truth about my team...

LOL

[King Gro23]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer and Screenshots - Player Sense 2.0

IMO here are my impressions on the slow madden video:

Play #1 NO@CLE - Solid defensive play from ALL 22 cam? Maybe coordinator cam it look like M.Austin Seam go was a "squeeze" type of throw.. Hoyer#5 under no pressure but tough throw to make given the tandem. Looks like bad ball placement if you catch the Ball land indicator at 0:04 (Hoyer's Ratings?) Byrd proven safety for his ball skills and coverage bait, play result=livable)

Play #2 BAL@CLE
Flacco steps up in pocket.. 0:18 see a 4 man rush /1Lbacker.. must be dime.

I have a issue with Flacco stepping up in pocket to about 3-4 yards behind LOS --nearing LOS which is apparently the 24' (3rd&6 --Yellow line on 30') and the CLE- DB on right side of the screen does not Clamp down and creep in with flacco given he has nobody out on his side for assignment. Might be TE blocking on right side of line. Looks like a tackle to me. The DB should still clamp down and float about 4-5 deep from LOS but not so wide outside numbers making a great valley to run for QB. he doesn't have to face up and run at QB although it would be nice to see from an aggressive linebacker that has no assignment which is seldom.

Player sense should recognize that and have him bite down and seal the edge and prevent possible scramble for 1st down. (Down and distance should matter for defensive mentality.)

biggest plague to this play: this is what makes madden kind of bland, the lack of freelance instincts. When routes are done or coverage's reach their mark: Madden likes to sit and watch instead of constantly reacting, If the WR's look at the QB- Players should recognize sometimes when he is under pressure & urgently break out of their routes to get open or flow with the scramble? Routes end on madden and players sit in one position too long, That flat route reciever who caught the ball had a lot of space under neither after he reached flats and seen the defense around him he could of cut back up the middle like a underneath drag or (<) the sideways V route back towards the numbers inside like it was a slant route and toasted the defense. Overall play was 50/50 the issues are what make and break plays regarding stick play.


Play #3
The Sherm vs Jordy play 1:08

-Jordy Nelson is at most 5 yards outside the hashes

-Also looks to seem as Jordy nelson has coverage more approximate to him on his back bip to the right side of screen(DB/S) on that side of field.

-Questions to myself- Why is jordan nelson doing a curl route right outside the hashes.. Was he lined up in a tight bunch?TE? Motioned? Maybe he was slot and ball was on Left hash (Left side of screen )

- It appears that Jordy is postioned pivoted and Sherm's angle on the break cant be Jordy Nelsons focus if Rodgers and aiming and firing.

-Therefore I dont think Jordy should of broke forward i think he was sitting in his hook(Lack of "freelance") around coverage staring down his QB awaiting pass ..

-Sherman is in the middle of the field where did he line up? that has him breaking like that to that position in the field inside out towards sidelines but really your five yards from the hashes. LB territory

- I know it wasnt a drag/Slant/ Comeback/ Post/Banana/ zig/ ??? those routes dont leave you in that locale on the field sitting still.

- Sherm makes break on ball and swats away ball on soft coverage

My issue is how does that play make sense it could have been man coverage.

Play #4
SD@KC 1:14
I like Sean smith's undercut cut off on Keenan Allen but I'm not sure why a big Corner in himself 6'3 220lb for making that move why he didnt try to pick that off, I'd expect that move out of a smaller db who was physically outmatched but I believe Smith DB is bigger than AllenWR. .

Play #5 HOU@JAX

Blake Bortles IMO does look slightly bothered by Watt. but Bortles is a big QB he is built to be sturdy in Pocket if your 6'5 230+. We dont want to see you slouching out of your throws.

-Reason i think its affected is the depth of it he throw it high and outside on the sidelines, Bortles has a arm to be seen but I imagine he has whip. He throws it high because of Watts height & pressure

-If he wasnt pressured I see that as completion because he was Gonna plant a Seed on Cecil Shorts hip right out of the break down field but more on rope and lower

I could live with that battle for the ball on most plays if it played out dynamically enough to where I wasnt seeing the same repititive animation in that scenario.

play #6
BUF@MIA 1:36

not much on the bills dolphin play, IMO you got to be able to stop on a dime to play any agile skill position in the league , it should have the proper physics and weighted momentum but still needs to be fine tuned and up to speed rather than clunky and too weighted.


The rest of the plays to each his own, Id like to hear more information and get my hands on this game. Havent bought madden in 2 years for the first time since 98'

Yep I really like a lot of what I see but some of the animations are still making it a bit rough. Not to where I still won't enjoy it.
Liked seeing DB's that aren't looking at play not reacting as soon as ball is thrown.
Don't like how players rushing the QB still go straight at an OL and no (at least from what I see) stutter stepping or faking a move inside/outside to try and beat the OL. Always straight at them.

Here's a slow down vid to just see things ..well.. a little slower...

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/kINd7vQjyaE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer and Screenshots - Player Sense 2.0

Play #2 BAL@CLE
Flacco steps up in pocket.. 0:18 see a 4 man rush /1Lbacker.. must be dime.

I have a issue with Flacco stepping up in pocket to about 3-4 yards behind LOS --nearing LOS which is apparently the 24' (3rd&6 --Yellow line on 30') and the CLE- DB on right side of the screen does not Clamp down and creep in with flacco given he has nobody out on his side for assignment. Might be TE blocking on right side of line. Looks like a tackle to me. The DB should still clamp down and float about 4-5 deep from LOS but not so wide outside numbers making a great valley to run for QB. he doesn't have to face up and run at QB although it would be nice to see from an aggressive linebacker that has no assignment which is seldom.

Player sense should recognize that and have him bite down and seal the edge and prevent possible scramble for 1st down. (Down and distance should matter for defensive mentality.)

biggest plague to this play: this is what makes madden kind of bland, the lack of freelance instincts. When routes are done or coverage's reach their mark: Madden likes to sit and watch instead of constantly reacting, If the WR's look at the QB- Players should recognize sometimes when he is under pressure & urgently break out of their routes to get open or flow with the scramble? Routes end on madden and players sit in one position too long, That flat route reciever who caught the ball had a lot of space under neither after he reached flats and seen the defense around him he could of cut back up the middle like a underneath drag or (<) the sideways V route back towards the numbers inside like it was a slant route and toasted the defense. Overall play was 50/50 the issues are what make and break plays regarding stick play.

Nice breakdown and this is exactly my issue. I can see this leading to the exact same extreme frustration moments I had with 25. I wonder how long it would have taken for the corner to react had Flacco run to that side. I have some clips where this exact same scenario happens in 25. My CB and linebacker literally stood still while RG3 ran right by them. They only reacted AFTER he had cleared them by 3 or 4 yards. To me, this implementation seems to basically say, "cover this zone, if no players enter the zone, I am idle. Once a player enters the zone circle, then I can move to chase said player". Where is the player intelligence that would have that corner creep to the line of scrimmage or even attack it? When you tout "player sense 2.0", I would expect to see these things, especially since games like backbreaker even have this kind of logic in it.

[TTD71]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer and Screenshots - Player Sense 2.0

Play #2 BAL@CLE
Flacco steps up in pocket.. 0:18 see a 4 man rush /1Lbacker.. must be dime.

I have a issue with Flacco stepping up in pocket to about 3-4 yards behind LOS --nearing LOS which is apparently the 24' (3rd&6 --Yellow line on 30') and the CLE- DB on right side of the screen does not Clamp down and creep in with flacco given he has nobody out on his side for assignment. ...

I had another problem with that part of the footage...when he steps up into the pocket, he ends up moving past the blockers and in front of the pass rushers on each edge....instead of the protection setting the edge and forcing the DEs to run outside of them, they are stuck together like glue.

This situation should result in holding A LOT...if the OTs both have outside edge protection responsibility and the QB steps up to a position that puts the DEs between himself and the OTs, then that is not a pocket at all! Granted its one play and slowed down BUT this same kind of futile logic has been in Madden forever...through one dev team after another, through multiple players and former players and coaches supposedly helping with the blocking logic....

I am at a loss. If the game still keep treating the pass pocket wrong and still keeps having stupid linemen engaging each other instead of actively trying to get to or protect the QB, then the other stuff won't matter at all in time. This is one of the primary reasons that crap play-styles with little to no football logic still work in Madden year after year in H2H settings.

The OTs and DEs in one-on-one match-ups collpase into linear 1v1 play and lack any awareness of the QB's movements from there. As the QB steps up and gets himself into a disavantaged location (with the pass rush between himself and his protection) it should result in either a sack, a QB hit or a penalty. In that example they had the QB throw to the flats to illustrate better coverage...but seriously, if the line play remains that broken I don't think the zone logic of the AI is going to matter. People in H2H games will get the timing down and the passing game will end up feeling painfully familiar before Labor Day...

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer and Screenshots - Player Sense 2.0

Nice breakdown and this is exactly my issue. I can see this leading to the exact same extreme frustration moments I had with 25. I wonder how long it would have taken for the corner to react had Flacco run to that side. I have some clips where this exact same scenario happens in 25. My CB and linebacker literally stood still while RG3 ran right by them. They only reacted AFTER he had cleared them by 3 or 4 yards. To me, this implementation seems to basically say, "cover this zone, if no players enter the zone, I am idle. Once a player enters the zone circle, then I can move to chase said player". Where is the player intelligence that would have that corner creep to the line of scrimmage or even attack it? When you tout "player sense 2.0", I would expect to see these things, especially since games like backbreaker even have this kind of logic in it.

See this is why I think ea should release more clips earlier in cycle so people with a different perspective can give feedback before it's to late in dev cycle to change it. If devs are lurking and reading videos and posts like this and one above it can only help except if it's to late in the game, kind of like I assume we are now.

I know that is what game changers are supposed to be for but when your at these events it's hard to catch it all like you can with a slowed down video capture like this. Then not to mention so many are caught up in hype and praise it rather than break down what still needs to be fixed. Having thousands see these rather than 6 or 7 people can only help with more eyes and perspectives given. I know it's wishful thinking and will probably never happen though. Oh well...

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer and Screenshots - Player Sense 2.0

See this is why I think ea should release more clips earlier in cycle so people with a different perspective can give feedback before it's to late in dev cycle to change it. If devs are lurking and reading videos and posts like this and one above it can only help except if it's to late in the game, kind of like I assume we are now.

I know that is what game changers are supposed to be for but when your at these events it's hard to catch it all like you can with a slowed down video capture like this. Then not to mention so many are caught up in hype and praise it rather than break down what still needs to be fixed. Having thousands see these rather than 6 or 7 people can only help with more eyes and perspectives given. I know it's wishful thinking and will probably never happen though. Oh well...

I actually sent that clip, along with several others over the past few months to Clint Oldenburgh. After the first one, he requested that I keep sending them. When I sent him the one I mentioned here, he got a little bit more sensitive about it. "I can show you several real life plays where defenders are standing still." I asked for those and never got them, because I sure as hell have never seen it. Even if that's the case, they certainly would not be standing still with the opposing team's QB running right at them. If they read this stuff then great, but reading and doing something about it are two different things. It looks bad when you advertise that you have super smart players performing 50x more calculations per second, yet they fail consistently year after year in performing basics. Once again, the implementation does not ever seem to match the touting and the marketing. Sounds good, plays bad.

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer and Screenshots - Player Sense 2.0

I had another problem with that part of the footage...when he steps up into the pocket, he ends up moving past the blockers and in front of the pass rushers on each edge....instead of the protection setting the edge and forcing the DEs to run outside of them, they are stuck together like glue.

This situation should result in holding A LOT...if the OTs both have outside edge protection responsibility and the QB steps up to a position that puts the DEs between himself and the OTs, then that is not a pocket at all! Granted its one play and slowed down BUT this same kind of futile logic has been in Madden forever...through one dev team after another, through multiple players and former players and coaches supposedly helping with the blocking logic....

I am at a loss. If the game still keep treating the pass pocket wrong and still keeps having stupid linemen engaging each other instead of actively trying to get to or protect the QB, then the other stuff won't matter at all in time. This is one of the primary reasons that crap play-styles with little to no football logic still work in Madden year after year in H2H settings.

The OTs and DEs in one-on-one match-ups collpase into linear 1v1 play and lack any awareness of the QB's movements from there. As the QB steps up and gets himself into a disavantaged location (with the pass rush between himself and his protection) it should result in either a sack, a QB hit or a penalty. In that example they had the QB throw to the flats to illustrate better coverage...but seriously, if the line play remains that broken I don't think the zone logic of the AI is going to matter. People in H2H games will get the timing down and the passing game will end up feeling painfully familiar before Labor Day...

Glad you mentioned this, I wanted to, but figured I would just be labeled "debbie downer". Notice how the DE actually has his back to the QB there and the O Lineman is behind him. Why would he be engaged in a block with the QB behind him? It's like he is pushing the offensive tackle straight down and not caring about where the QB is or where he might go. I was starting to feel a bit better about this game and maybe considered buying it, but after seeing this video, everything that I wanted to see fixed with this player sense 2.0 is still just as bad as it has been the past several years.

[Gman 18]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer and Screenshots - Player Sense 2.0

I wonder when they are gonna put signature animations into the game


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[MAGboyswifT27]

Things I liked and some I didn't really care for but there's hope..

[TTD71]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer and Screenshots - Player Sense 2.0

Glad you mentioned this, I wanted to, but figured I would just be labeled "debbie downer". Notice how the DE actually has his back to the QB there and the O Lineman is behind him. Why would he be engaged in a block with the QB behind him? It's like he is pushing the offensive tackle straight down and not caring about where the QB is or where he might go. I was starting to feel a bit better about this game and maybe considered buying it, but after seeing this video, everything that I wanted to see fixed with this player sense 2.0 is still just as bad as it has been the past several years.

After seeing this blocking glitch in those clips,. I was watching the pocket formation and blocking on a few plays in the stream this afternoon and thankfully saw the OL-DL (especially the edges of the pocket) work much better when they were using Manning and Rivers and mainly stepping up in a more realistic way. It was not all bad like this one example...hopefully the effort that has gone into balancing the game will pay off by making that poor awareness a real outlier instead of an every 3rd play occurrence...

That live stream was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more impressive than the last 2 years of hype videos combined for me...it made me a lot more forgiving about the blocking anomalies - as long as they stay anomalies after I get the game in my hands!!!

[DrPhibes]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer and Screenshots - Player Sense 2.0

Nice to see they have the actual Vikings number font in the game.

[Bowinkle08]

Unfortunately for me, it didn't do much. I immediately saw two situations where a defender was standing completely still, flat footed doing nothing. That would never be the case. Even if that defender, in this case it's a corner, is responsible for backside contain, he's going to creep up near the line of scrimmage or he's simply going to attack it. If not that, he would help out in coverage. I just don't understand how they don't see that happen and don't address it. It's been in the game for years. This clip was only a couple of minutes and I saw it twice.

EDIT: if you look at the 31 second mark, the corner and MLB are standing still. Graphics look really nice.

i saw the corner and mlb reading the qb than breaking to the ball o.0

[GiantBlue76]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer and Screenshots - Player Sense 2.0

i saw the corner and mlb reading the qb than breaking to the ball o.0

Be sure to send me your version of the game. Better yet, I'll take whatever glasses you're wearing. :-)

[Ueauvan]

Re: Madden NFL 15 Trailer and Screenshots - Player Sense 2.0

havent read all of the comments but now twist a bit

if the qb underthrows or throws an errant pass do high AWR receivers swat to prevent interceptions like the best ones do in real life?

how does the zcv mcv changes affect defending the run, dont want to go overboard on secondary making your front 7 anaemic to draws etc?