FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

[Hooe]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

The only slider I have touched to this point was QB Accuracy (for user and CPU). Everything else is standard All Pro for me so far.

[charter04]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

The only slider I have touched to this point was QB Accuracy (for user and CPU). Everything else is standard All Pro for me so far.

What did you put user acc on?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hooe]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

What did you put user acc on?

I think I've got it set for 35 for both user and CPU right now. If that ends up being different I'll correct this post.

[sword1986]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

FBGRatings perhaps saved the game. Donny Moore's rosters are atrocious. I hope we can use FBGRatings in franchise mode.

[A_Quiet_Pro]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

Forgive me if this was mentioned, (I wasn't searching through 35 pages to find it HAHA), But it'd be great if someone (or some people) could work with these more realistic ratings, and make them available in Madden Share. (AND hopefully keep them updated).

[ggsimmonds]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

Forgive me if this was mentioned, (I wasn't searching through 35 pages to find it HAHA), But it'd be great if someone (or some people) could work with these more realistic ratings, and make them available in Madden Share. (AND hopefully keep them updated).

"Be the change you want to see in the world..."

[Argooos]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

I've been working on converting an updated Madden 12 roster to these ratings. So far I've done all the quarterbacks in the league as well as three complete teams (Dolphins, Jets, Bills). I have to say I'm really impressed. It's going to be a very fun game when I eventually (some day) finish.

The only part that bothers me is players whose ratings are lower because they are currently injured or suspended. I understand that you get these ratings from a scout and plug them into your ratings formula. I have to assume you aren't able to pick and choose which players' ratings to update when new data comes in because otherwise I think it's an odd choice to lower these players' ratings.

I understand why scouts would lower the ratings - if a player isn't going to be on the field, they will have no impact on the field and their ratings should reflect that - if they're injured, you can expect them to not be able to perform physically as before. That makes sense for real life when the ratings can be constantly updated relatively easily. Madden, however, is not real life. When I (or someone like me) uses your ratings to re-rate players in Madden, those ratings are essentially set in stone. We're not going to re-rate every player in the league every time you post an update. As such, if a player is currently suspended and thus is -20 overall, they will stay -20 overall in my roster for as long as I use it. It's simply not feasible for me to track down all the injured and suspended players in the league and re-rate them when you update their ratings.

While I think overall you've done a fantastic job and the ratings are great, having these temporary low ratings for injured and (especially) suspended players really hurts the usability of these rosters for people like me who actually want to play with them in a Madden franchise/CCM.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

I've been working on converting an updated Madden 12 roster to these ratings. So far I've done all the quarterbacks in the league as well as three complete teams (Dolphins, Jets, Bills). I have to say I'm really impressed. It's going to be a very fun game when I eventually (some day) finish.

The only part that bothers me is players whose ratings are lower because they are currently injured or suspended. I understand that you get these ratings from a scout and plug them into your ratings formula. I have to assume you aren't able to pick and choose which players' ratings to update when new data comes in because otherwise I think it's an odd choice to lower these players' ratings.

I understand why scouts would lower the ratings - if a player isn't going to be on the field, they will have no impact on the field and their ratings should reflect that - if they're injured, you can expect them to not be able to perform physically as before. That makes sense for real life when the ratings can be constantly updated relatively easily. Madden, however, is not real life. When I (or someone like me) uses your ratings to re-rate players in Madden, those ratings are essentially set in stone. We're not going to re-rate every player in the league every time you post an update. As such, if a player is currently suspended and thus is -20 overall, they will stay -20 overall in my roster for as long as I use it. It's simply not feasible for me to track down all the injured and suspended players in the league and re-rate them when you update their ratings.

While I think overall you've done a fantastic job and the ratings are great, having these temporary low ratings for injured and (especially) suspended players really hurts the usability of these rosters for people like me who actually want to play with them in a Madden franchise/CCM.

I would not understand it. There is no reasoning for a scout to lower a player's grade due to suspension or injury.

But correct me if I am wrong, the scouts do not lower grades; what happens is DCEBB applies a multiplier to injured/suspended players that alters their Madden ratings. If I had to guess, all players have this multiplier but for most players it may simply be 1 whereas an injured guy might have .5 or something.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

I've been working on converting an updated Madden 12 roster to these ratings. So far I've done all the quarterbacks in the league as well as three complete teams (Dolphins, Jets, Bills). I have to say I'm really impressed. It's going to be a very fun game when I eventually (some day) finish.

The only part that bothers me is players whose ratings are lower because they are currently injured or suspended. I understand that you get these ratings from a scout and plug them into your ratings formula. I have to assume you aren't able to pick and choose which players' ratings to update when new data comes in because otherwise I think it's an odd choice to lower these players' ratings.

I understand why scouts would lower the ratings - if a player isn't going to be on the field, they will have no impact on the field and their ratings should reflect that - if they're injured, you can expect them to not be able to perform physically as before. That makes sense for real life when the ratings can be constantly updated relatively easily. Madden, however, is not real life. When I (or someone like me) uses your ratings to re-rate players in Madden, those ratings are essentially set in stone. We're not going to re-rate every player in the league every time you post an update. As such, if a player is currently suspended and thus is -20 overall, they will stay -20 overall in my roster for as long as I use it. It's simply not feasible for me to track down all the injured and suspended players in the league and re-rate them when you update their ratings.

While I think overall you've done a fantastic job and the ratings are great, having these temporary low ratings for injured and (especially) suspended players really hurts the usability of these rosters for people like me who actually want to play with them in a Madden franchise/CCM.

I am sorry you see it that way but it is what it is. The formulas for calculating the overall score used by the scouts is a bit different from that used in Madden. Due to the ratings being done in real-time, I must stick with what the data says.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

I would not understand it. There is no reasoning for a scout to lower a player's grade due to suspension or injury.

But correct me if I am wrong, the scouts do not lower grades; what happens is DCEBB applies a multiplier to injured/suspended players that alters their Madden ratings. If I had to guess, all players have this multiplier but for most players it may simply be 1 whereas an injured guy might have .5 or something.

Scouts do the same thing during the draft. A guy could have physical abilities and production through the roof and a score of 4.60. But if he has off the field issues, he may only be a 3.60 on their board. The scouts DO lower the grades. If the overall grade was not lower, I would have no reason to lower it. Everything I do relates to mimicking the scouting data. The multiplier comes in because the formula for obtaining an OVR in the scouting system is different from that in Madden. X + Y = Z in the scouting system when perhaps X(.3) + Y(1.6) = W in Madden. The formulas are different. Some of the attributes are different as well.

For instance, the actual grade for Robert Mathis right now is 0.3 whereas he is usually around 7.0. So please stand corrected. The measures I take are to match the data source. I do not alter the data itself; I merely try to match it in Madden.

[Argooos]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

I am sorry you see it that way but it is what it is. The formulas for calculating the overall score used by the scouts is a bit different from that used in Madden. Due to the ratings being done in real-time, I must stick with what the data says.

Okay, that's kinda what I figured. It's a shame it can't be done differently, but as you say, it is what it is.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

Scouts do the same thing during the draft. A guy could have physical abilities and production through the roof and a score of 4.60. But if he has off the field issues, he may only be a 3.60 on their board. The scouts DO lower the grades. If the overall grade was not lower, I would have no reason to lower it. Everything I do relates to mimicking the scouting data. The multiplier comes in because the formula for obtaining an OVR in the scouting system is different from that in Madden. X + Y = Z in the scouting system when perhaps X(.3) + Y(1.6) = W in Madden. The formulas are different. Some of the attributes are different as well.

For instance, the actual grade for Robert Mathis right now is 0.3 whereas he is usually around 7.0. So please stand corrected. The measures I take are to match the data source. I do not alter the data itself; I merely try to match it in Madden.

Do they lower the on field grades or is there a separate grade for off field stuff (like character)? So because Ray Rice is suspended for two games his vision is not as good?
I know you are not the one grading the players, but it makes little sense to me why a scout would lower a player's abilities because he is suspended. My disagreement is even greater for current NFL players. It may make more sense perhaps for certain injuries, but even then I would still disagree. Just leave it at incomplete data instead of dropping a guy to an arbitrary point.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

Do they lower the on field grades or is there a separate grade for off field stuff (like character)? So because Ray Rice is suspended for two games his vision is not as good?
I know you are not the one grading the players, but it makes little sense to me why a scout would lower a player's abilities because he is suspended. My disagreement is even greater for current NFL players. It may make more sense perhaps for certain injuries, but even then I would still disagree. Just leave it at incomplete data instead of dropping a guy to an arbitrary point.

All of the grades for the attributes stay the same. The only thing that changes is the overall grade. So for Ray Rice, his vision grade is 4.0/5.0. That doesn't change. The only thing that changes is the OVR score which is modified by a separate category that is dependent upon injury/suspension/misc. holds. This is what makes the overall grade drop for any player. The attribute data doesn't change one bit unless there is evidence to support the change. Madden doesn't allow us to change the OVR score without modifying the attributes. So, we have to choose one or the other. Modify the attributes and get the correct OVR rating, or leave the attributes alone and get an incorrect OVR rating.

As you can see, because there are typically more injuries than suspensions and the injuries do affect one's attributes, I have chosen to go with the correct OVR in these cases.

Scouts grade players less for suspensions/history all the time. Some scouts and GMs take them off of their boards all together. You don't have to take my word for it though, just do an internship with a scouting service or NFL front office. That's what I did.

Regardless, none of this conversation will make me change my mind on any of this. It is what it is. If you do not like it, don't use the ratings.

[charter04]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

Hey Dan, have you ever considered also including traits in your system? I would love to know based on real data what those traits should be. Throws tight spiral, how often they take off running, pocket presence, big hitter.

[ggsimmonds]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

All of the grades for the attributes stay the same. The only thing that changes is the overall grade. So for Ray Rice, his vision grade is 4.0/5.0. That doesn't change. The only thing that changes is the OVR score which is modified by a separate category that is dependent upon injury/suspension/misc. holds. This is what makes the overall grade drop for any player. The attribute data doesn't change one bit unless there is evidence to support the change. Madden doesn't allow us to change the OVR score without modifying the attributes. So, we have to choose one or the other. Modify the attributes and get the correct OVR rating, or leave the attributes alone and get an incorrect OVR rating.

As you can see, because there are typically more injuries than suspensions and the injuries do affect one's attributes, I have chosen to go with the correct OVR in these cases.

Scouts grade players less for suspensions/history all the time. Some scouts and GMs take them off of their boards all together. You don't have to take my word for it though, just do an internship with a scouting service or NFL front office. That's what I did.

Regardless, none of this conversation will make me change my mind on any of this. It is what it is. If you do not like it, don't use the ratings.

I'm not trying to make you change your mind or argue the point. I just was curious as to the reasoning behind it. But obviously I know that GMs will take certain guys off their board due to other factors. But you keep going back to the NFL draft...this is about Madden ratings though. Now I get what your saying, but you don't need to take the "if you don't like it go away attitude."

With that out of the way, what I am curious about is strictly what the scouts do. Staying on Ray Rice, for his suspension why would they change his grades/overall at all? Same thing with an injury.

Rather than explain it I have always fancied screenwriting so indulge me here. Hypothetical scenario: After Ray's incident Baltimore released him. Lets also imagine that Bernard's contract expired and the Ravens opted not to resign him. Team X is considering signing one of those players so the GM brings in his scout.

GM: Okay so what do you got for Rice?
Scout: Well we grade him overall at a 26.
GM: what? Yeah he had a bad year but he looked that bad?
Scout: Well no, but he is suspended so we lowered his final grade. Based on film he is a 72 but he beats his wife so we lowered him to factor in the risk.
GM: ...You are a scout. You scout football players. You report to me how good of a football player a guy is. We are aware of his history and myself and the coaches and ownership will take that into consideration. Your job is to report accurate data. How did you determine the 26 anyway?
Scout: Well we added a multiplier that would lower his final grade to a level we felt was sufficient and uh...
GM: It was arbitrary wasn't it? Nevermind, what about Bernard?
Scout: Ah we uh graded him a 32...
GM: why?
Scout: he is coming off surgery.
GM: So you think his ability to run between the tackles is diminished?
Scout: Nah, we didn't touch that. Actually he grades as a 62 but we dropped him.
GM: Because he is injured? And you are expecting a decrease in ability?
Scout: I don't know I am not a medical doctor or anything; we just dropped him to convey to you that...
GM: Get out of my office.
*end scene*

Of course I know that GMs do not care about overall rating like certain Madden players. It makes the whole damn thing pointless though. It is arbitrary and I have a hard time believing that professional scouts would manipulate data in this way. Going back to the draft, sure that may be different, but it is my opinion that abilities, injury concerns, and character should all be separate. If some front offices combine those categories to arrive at a final grade that is understandable but they do not arbitrarily drop the football grade.