FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

My bad, you have Hali as perfect in almost every technique category, not physical skills. Which still is not right based on the way Hali plays in real life. You have Tamba Hali as the tied for best player in the league, even though he has never been an MVP and never made 1st team all-pro. There is no defensive player within 8 OVR of Hali, and no LB within 14 OVR of Hali, which makes it not even close on your scale.

And you have been too focused on your ratings system to read interviews with the gameplay developers. Here is a quote from the gameplay developers.


"Zone Coverage ratings now have a bigger impact on how quickly defenders break on throws. Defenders with higher ratings in Zone Coverage will react much quicker to throws."

"Man Coverage ratings have also been tweaked to impact how much separation receivers are able to get on cuts in their routes, resulting in improved behavior of the defender."

And like I said, I am including other attributes in the juke thing. Fitzgerald is 7 greater than McCoy at juking. McCoy is 3 greater than Fitzgerald at AGI. Advantage- Fitzgerald, even though in real life, if you actually watch football, it isn't even close.

So now you are saying that in order to be tied for being the best player in the league - a league dominated by the forward pass and high passing numbers - you need to have an MVP or DPY on your mantle?

Use my example and go into the game. Cover a WR with a CB who has a 99 MCV and 99 AGI and see how well he covers. Now do it with a CB who has a 99 MCV and 0 AGI. If the only thing that matters is the MCV rating, then the results will be the same and a lesser WR should be blanketed by both players right? Just try it out and let me know what you find.

You are also assuming, incorrectly I will add, that the ratio of AGI to JKM is the same on the overall effectiveness of utilizing a JKM. They are NOT equal. AGI plays a lot larger role than you realize. Do this test: Take a player with 99 JKM and 99 AGI and try to juke a defender. Now take a player with 99 JKM and 96 AGI and try to juke a defender. Then inverse the JKM and AGI ratings for two more tests. Let me know what you find. Let's see if one is more valuable than the other. Something tells me that one outweighs the other...but what would I know? I just make this stuff up as I go, right?

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

I know AGI affects it, but so does juke move. What don't you understand about it? And it shouldn't even be remotely close.

What YOU do not understand is that they do not work in a 1:1 ratio of effectiveness in the game! One has more input on the effectiveness of a juke move than the other...and the answer may surprise you!

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

You are misunderstanding what I'm saying, so I'll just let you try to reread it and understand since there is no other way to explain it. It is MLB and OLB, an extremely skillset. If I take the 80 MLB and move him to ROLB, he is a 81. Therefore, a 80 MLB= an 81 ROLB. What more is there to explain? The OVR scale shouldn't be used outside a position.

I know what you were saying the first time you said it. You are still missing my point. The criteria for each position is different. Throw out the attributes. Does 80 = 80? That's all I am asking.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

So your data says Clowney deserves a higher regular catch rating than Steve Smith? What is that based on? Has Clowney ever even caught a ball in a game? No, he has not.

So it only counts if it happens in a game? If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is present to hear it, does it still make a sound?

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9167927/jadeveon-clowney-catches-touchdown-south-carolina-gamecocks-spring-game

Scouts see more than what you see on TV

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

According to this, the guy will drop probably at least 30% of his targets in gameplay, not be able to block literally anyone, fumble way too often, among other issues. The guy is an NFL football player, and like I said earlier, the highest drop rate in the league was 15% last year on guys with 30 targets or more. Did your data tell you he is a better man defender than zone?

So now it is a given that because he is on a training camp roster that he is of the same caliber of a player who makes the 45 man game-day active list, is in a position on the depth chart high enough to get playing time, and had at least enough opportunities to catch passes that we can measure his drop rate?

I am going to let you in on a secret. Not everyone that makes an NFL camp is worthy of making the minimum requirements for acquiring such a stat that you quote here.

And yes, the data did say that he is better at MCV than ZCV based on his projection for a position that would require it - with a confidence level of 99%.

[michiganfan8620]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

So it only counts if it happens in a game? If a tree falls in a forest and nobody is present to hear it, does it still make a sound?

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/9167927/jadeveon-clowney-catches-touchdown-south-carolina-gamecocks-spring-game

Scouts see more than what you see on TV

Clowney ran off the sideline in a pair of shorts mid play in a scrimmage (when he wasn't even playing in the game), and caught one pass? That equals 836 nfl receptions I guess according to you I guess.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

Clowney ran off the sideline in a pair of shorts mid play in a scrimmage (when he wasn't even playing in the game), and caught one pass? That equals 836 nfl receptions I guess according to you I guess.

Ability does not equate to production. Terrell Owens has a ton of ability at nearly 40 years of age. How many catches did he have last year?

Your CTH rating does not equal how many receptions you have in your career...unless you are EA Sports...then maybe it does....but we all know how we feel about their logic.

[michiganfan8620]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

So now you are saying that in order to be tied for being the best player in the league - a league dominated by the forward pass and high passing numbers - you need to have an MVP or DPY on your mantle?

Use my example and go into the game. Cover a WR with a CB who has a 99 MCV and 99 AGI and see how well he covers. Now do it with a CB who has a 99 MCV and 0 AGI. If the only thing that matters is the MCV rating, then the results will be the same and a lesser WR should be blanketed by both players right? Just try it out and let me know what you find.

You are also assuming, incorrectly I will add, that the ratio of AGI to JKM is the same on the overall effectiveness of utilizing a JKM. They are NOT equal. AGI plays a lot larger role than you realize. Do this test: Take a player with 99 JKM and 99 AGI and try to juke a defender. Now take a player with 99 JKM and 96 AGI and try to juke a defender. Then inverse the JKM and AGI ratings for two more tests. Let me know what you find. Let's see if one is more valuable than the other. Something tells me that one outweighs the other...but what would I know? I just make this stuff up as I go, right?

If he's 8 OVR above any other guy on defense, yes, he should have a DPOY. But he doesn't. Hmm that's odd, isn't it? Maybe Hali isn't better than every other defensive player by a landslide. And i know AGI impacts things, but still. Clowney shouldn't be better at breaking on a ball than a CB like Haden. Fitzgerald shouldn't be close to McCoy at juking either. And if juke means nothing, why give Fitz a 99 then?

[michiganfan8620]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

Ability does not equate to production. Terrell Owens has a ton of ability at nearly 40 years of age. How many catches did he have last year?

Your CTH rating does not equal how many receptions you have in your career...unless you are EA Sports...then maybe it does....but we all know how we feel about their logic.

No it doesn't. However, a guy who caught 836 passes is going to be better at catching than some guy who has caught 0 and is not a WR. Steve Smith is a professional pass catcher. Clowney is not. What has Clowney done to warrant a 74 catch? Caught the ball? Of wait, he hasn't. You are the one making things up not using data on that.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

If he's 8 OVR above any other guy on defense, yes, he should have a DPOY. But he doesn't. Hmm that's odd, isn't it? Maybe Hali isn't better than every other defensive player by a landslide. And i know AGI impacts things, but still. Clowney shouldn't be better at breaking on a ball than a CB like Haden. Fitzgerald shouldn't be close to McCoy at juking either. And if juke means nothing, why give Fitz a 99 then?

Stating that he should have the DPOY award is your opinion, not a fact. That award often goes along with defensive production, not ability. Once again, production is not the same thing as ability. Madden rates players based on their abilities (attributes) not production (stats).

And, Clowney won't be better in coverage. Try it in a game. Compare their other attributes like AGI and ACC, both of which control the ability to break on a ball along with the MCV/ZCV ratings...which all work symbiotically.

Fitz has a 99 JKM rating because the data says he does when paired with his other attributes, just the same as it does for any other player...holistically.

[Hooe]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

I'm going to repeat myself from 100 posts ago:

Okay guys, it's clear there's an irreconcilable disagreement here. Drop it and move on from this discussion.

Thanks.

Once again, guys: let's move on.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

No it doesn't. However, a guy who caught 836 passes is going to be better at catching than some guy who has caught 0 and is not a WR. Steve Smith is a professional pass catcher. Clowney is not. What has Clowney done to warrant a 74 catch? Caught the ball? Of wait, he hasn't. You are the one making things up not using data on that.

Prove it. Prove that he is going to be worse at catching a ball right now. I want proof. Until you prove it, I will take what you say as merely opinion. And yes, I imagine that he has caught enough balls during practices/scrimmages/workouts (you know, stuff seen by scouts) to warrant that rating. Otherwise, he wouldn't have it. I make NOTHING UP on this website. It is all data driven. All of it. The scouting data and its validity is more than you can offer at this time, I am sure of that.

[charter04]

FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

Dan, it's a waist of time. He isn't here to help, just to pick things a part and criticize. If he truly wanted to help he would be giving his ideas on how he would rate players. Would he use actual data like 40 time? Only stats? PFF data? YouTube or NFL.com rewind watching/scouting? Nothing like that has been said. Only complaints and saying what your doing is wrong.

Usually, because I'm not a troll, if I don't like the way something is done and it's with in my power to do it myself, I do it my self. That's just me though. Lol

[DCEBB2001]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

I'm going to repeat myself from 100 posts ago:


Once again, guys: let's move on.

It is getting to be borderline trolling here, and I am not the only one to notice (Charter04 mentioned it a page or two back as well). I have tried several times to make it pretty obvious that his continuation of bringing forth an argument will do nothing to advance the thread, nor do anything to change the opinions of other posters within it, despite the fact that I have been answering his questions. I appreciate the oversight from the moderators, but this is getting to be a bit ridiculous.

I will not address michiganfan8620 any further in this thread as it makes no progress in advancing the topic. If he has any further questions, he can send me a PM or a private email. I would even be willing to discuss this over the phone with him as my number is on my website and I welcome communication regarding the topic so long as it is done respectfully and appropriately.

Thank you Christopher. I will do my best to no longer feed the trolls, despite my constant willingness to defend this topic and the information it presents.

[charter04]

Re: FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

Back to the point of the thread. I hope to get Atlanta done this week and I'll do some twitch streaming. Looking forward to it.