When will 2K have real time physics ?

[spankdatazz22]

Re: When will 2K have real time physics ?

2K is just fine. I hope they don't go down the path of the other game and mess with the gameplay. Hopefully they never get real time physics. Let them continue what they are doing, listening to the community and making improvements.

Don't get me wrong, "Real Time Physics" sounds great as a buzzword, but in basketball action I haven't seen a compelling reason to drool over it.

Much agreed. I remember this came up years ago, when EA initially tried to implement real time physics into Madden back in 2007-08, and Backbreaker was released. I remember creating a similar thread and asking that question myself back in my APF days - but it was directed more at whether NaturalMotion was needed at the time (forgive my over-appreciation for what APF was at the time in the thread title):

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...all-games.html

I've hated the buzz term "canimations"/"canned animations" since Ian and crew introduced it back in their Madden producing days and the forums took off with it. While I don't doubt one day sports games will have true physics-based systems that animate beautifully and reduce clipping, I don't know that we as non-programmers understand the complexities of implementing these systems in sports games today.

I love the physics in the GTA games. But sports (as minigames) in those games aren't necessarily represented all that impressively. Granted they're likely afterthoughts, but I think implementing such a system to the degree where it can outdo what currently can be done via animations and ratings would be a huge challenge. Particularly in a sport like basketball where athletes are so unique and diverse, and people expect that to be rendered appropriately in NBA2K.

[Vni]

Re: When will 2K have real time physics ?

If it were easy to implement I suspect we would've seen it by now. Right now it seems like physics and animations is the best way to use the engine.

Not saying it's easy at all lol. Off course it's hard especially in a one year development cycle. I think they would need to work on it in the background, perfection it for a few years and implement it when they feel it's ready. It's definately not for tomorrow but it would be nice to have that kind of collisions in the game.

[Vni]

Re: When will 2K have real time physics ?

I would love to see it eventually in some form or fashion, but I think that pro basketball is a little more difficult to implement it in than the other major sports. It would definitely help with interior offensive/defensive gameplay, rebounding and mostly fouls. Too many times a foul should register but doesn't cause the game's physics aren't sophisticated enough to "create" the contact.

from Spurs Nation/Bills Backer HQ using Tapatalk

I think basketball might be the hardest virtual sport to design. So much contacts, so many different type of bodys, height, strenght... It feels like it would be the toughest sport to design.

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Re: When will 2K have real time physics ?

One of the reasons Fifa 2014 was sports game of the year imo

[Big FN Deal]

Re: When will 2K have real time physics ?

My two cents is, given what little I've noticed from the POV behind designing NBA2k, the creators of the game have likely bounced the premise of RTP around among the themselves. I would imagine given the challenges and unpredictability of RTP in a basketball game outweighs the potential benefit in their opinion, which I think I would agree. I think when considering such a core change to game play, as RTP in a basketball game likely would be, risk/reward certainly has to be determined and I don't see the potential reward being worth the risk. Putting it another way, I don't see what positives a likely unproven RTP multi year project brings to the game but I can easily imagine the potential negatives.

The key factor of RTP in a basketball game that comes to mind for me is mid-air collisions and collisions in general but IMO those could be better handled using traditional game physics and animations. Reason being, I would prefer those be handled using a system which provides more control and restraint, opposed to an unpredictable unproven RTP system, with ragdoll effects.

That said, I would hope that 2K is working on some kind of RTP behind the scenes, waiting until it's a fundamentally solid improvement over current systems before implementing it.

[TeeDogg]

Re: When will 2K have real time physics ?

Much agreed. I remember this came up years ago, when EA initially tried to implement real time physics into Madden back in 2007-08, and Backbreaker was released. I remember creating a similar thread and asking that question myself back in my APF days - but it was directed more at whether NaturalMotion was needed at the time (forgive my over-appreciation for what APF was at the time in the thread title):

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...all-games.html

I've hated the buzz term "canimations"/"canned animations" since Ian and crew introduced it back in their Madden producing days and the forums took off with it. While I don't doubt one day sports games will have true physics-based systems that animate beautifully and reduce clipping, I don't know that we as non-programmers understand the complexities of implementing these systems in sports games today.

I love the physics in the GTA games. But sports (as minigames) in those games aren't necessarily represented all that impressively. Granted they're likely afterthoughts, but I think implementing such a system to the degree where it can outdo what currently can be done via animations and ratings would be a huge challenge. Particularly in a sport like basketball where athletes are so unique and diverse, and people expect that to be rendered appropriately in NBA2K.

^^This^^
while I would love to have it, I don't want it at the expense of having the gameplay set backwards and unrealistic interactions all over the place. stay on pace 2k, push the envelope where you can but don't bring in anything until it can be done right. im perfectly satisfied with branching and interruptible animations augmented by RTP.
just my .02

[RIZDRAVER]

Re: When will 2K have real time physics ?

The bump at the end is clearly a scripted mocap animation. There's no "real time physics" involved in any of what was presented.

Let's be frank, collisions with the goalie and a striker are some of the most common interactions in any attempted soccer score; FIFA has numerous pre-scripted mocap goalie-attacker animations built in the game just as 2K has many charge/dunk/rebound/etc mocap collisions.

[DonWuan]

Re: When will 2K have real time physics ?

I believe physics is something you have to build from ground up. Not something you achieve in 1 dev cycle.

Would be nice 1 day.

[Vni]

Re: When will 2K have real time physics ?

The bump at the end is clearly a scripted mocap animation. There's no "real time physics" involved in any of what was presented.

Let's be frank, collisions with the goalie and a striker are some of the most common interactions in any attempted soccer score; FIFA has numerous pre-scripted mocap goalie-attacker animations built in the game just as 2K has many charge/dunk/rebound/etc mocap collisions.

Do you have a source for that kind of information ?

[quehouston]

Re: When will 2K have real time physics ?

The bump at the end is clearly a scripted mocap animation. There's no "real time physics" involved in any of what was presented.

Let's be frank, collisions with the goalie and a striker are some of the most common interactions in any attempted soccer score; FIFA has numerous pre-scripted mocap goalie-attacker animations built in the game just as 2K has many charge/dunk/rebound/etc mocap collisions.

False. I own FIFA 14, and there are zero 2-man Canimations in that game. Every interaction between 2 players is in real time. Players engaged organically, nothing scripted.

[deadtendo]

Re: When will 2K have real time physics ?

theres also a reason lives gameplay has failed on NG.

real time physics is going to require an entirely new game engine (i believe) and at that point we are getting an essentially 100% new game.

just get rid of canned/forced animations and what not and it wont be as necessary for RTP

No, not really. You have to remember that take2 interactive have used the Euphoria physics engine in such games like Max Payne 3. 2k is part of take2 family. So they can use it. I suppose they really don't need it right now.

[deadtendo]

Re: When will 2K have real time physics ?

False. I own FIFA 14, and there are zero 2-man Canimations in that game. Every interaction between 2 players is in real time. Players engaged organically, nothing scripted.

Sorry but Fifa doesn't use "real time physics". They use "run time physics". Long story short, the physics they use in the Fifa and Madden are really augmented physics coded into their Ignite engine. Too this day, the only sports game to use a "real time physics engine" was backbreaker.

[Vni]

Re: When will 2K have real time physics ?

Sorry but Fifa doesn't use "real time physics". They use "run time physics". Long story short, the physics they use in the Fifa and Madden are really augmented physics coded into their Ignite engine. Too this day, the only sports game to use a "real time physics engine" was backbreaker.

Interesting... What do you mean by augmented physics ?

[PRAY IV M3RCY]

Re: When will 2K have real time physics ?

Judging from what's already been attempted with real time physics i may be one of the few people that doesnt want 2k to steer towards that route. To me a beautifully timed animation beats any RTP collision in today's sports games. The technology is just not where it needs to be right now. Look at where Madden is at with 3 years of RTP in the game. It looks very arcadish and the collisions look even more unrealistic than a canned animation would. Let's also remember that we are talking about 2k here. They are one of the most talented group of devs when it comes to creating animations that imitate real life and for the most part you can't argue that it doesn't. I think people are asking for something they will regret getting.

[El_Poopador]

Re: When will 2K have real time physics ?

Judging from what's already been attempted with real time physics i may be one of the few people that doesnt want 2k to steer towards that route. To me a beautifully timed animation beats any RTP collision in today's sports games. The technology is just not where it needs to be right now. Look at where Madden is at with 3 years of RTP in the game. It looks very arcadish and the collisions look even more unrealistic than a canned animation would. Let's also remember that we are talking about 2k here. They are one of the most talented group of devs when it comes to creating animations that imitate real life and for the most part you can't argue that it doesn't. I think people are asking for something they will regret getting.

No one is asking for a rush job. If done correctly, RTP can only improve the game, and make it more realistic. Madden's animations are somewhat lackluster, but you can't deny that there hasn't been vast improvement in several areas with their physics engine. And that isn't even being applied to all aspects of the game.