Re-Sign Logic flawed?

[Iceman87GT]

I offer them more than what they are asking for during the re-sign period (so its not like I'm being outbid), and they came back the next week wanting more. I offer them even more and they end negotiations immediately.

This is the 2nd time this has happened, and it is in an online CFM so there is no getting around the flawed logic at play here, I can't re-sign them until free agency starts. And I don't feel like getting into a bidding war over a 32 year old TE, even if he has been consistent for me.

I could get spurning an offer above the asking price if I had tried to lowball him on the first offer but both offers were above what he was asking for (same case with the previous case). I've also experienced this in offline CFMs.

Is there a chance this was fixed in the latest online update (we started playing before they made those changes), because there is no way I'll be starting another online CFM until the issue is addressed (I'll stick to offline and being able to load a previous save to avoid stuff like this).

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the same reason why teams are failing to sign franchise QBs (Wilson in Seattle, and Luck in Indy), in quite a few CFMs.

[Sheba2011]

Re: Re-Sign Logic flawed?

I offer them more than what they are asking for during the re-sign period (so its not like I'm being outbid), and they came back the next week wanting more. I offer them even more and they end negotiations immediately.

This is the 2nd time this has happened, and it is in an online CFM so there is no getting around the flawed logic at play here, I can't re-sign them until free agency starts. And I don't feel like getting into a bidding war over a 32 year old TE, even if he has been consistent for me.

I could get spurning an offer above the asking price if I had tried to lowball him on the first offer but both offers were above what he was asking for (same case with the previous case). I've also experienced this in offline CFMs.

Is there a chance this was fixed in the latest online update (we started playing before they made those changes), because there is no way I'll be starting another online CFM until the issue is addressed (I'll stick to offline and being able to load a previous save to avoid stuff like this).

I wouldn't be surprised if this is the same reason why teams are failing to sign franchise QBs (Wilson in Seattle, and Luck in Indy), in quite a few CFMs.

Need more info for your specific situation before we can say it is flawed. What team are you using? What was your record? Who are the players? Who are their backups? Who did they end up signing with, and what was their record last year? Do they fit your scheme? It's about more than just the money you offer.

[Darkleaf]

Re: Re-Sign Logic flawed?

Yes it is flawed, predictable trait seems completely pointless as well.

[Iceman87GT]

Re: Re-Sign Logic flawed?

Need more info for your specific situation before we can say it is flawed. What team are you using? What was your record? Who are the players? Who are their backups? Who did they end up signing with, and what was their record last year? Do they fit your scheme? It's about more than just the money you offer.

We won the super bowl last year, he was a major target in my offense and figured to be this year. He is a 31 year old (will be 32 when he enters free agency), he doesn't fit my scheme in words but certainly in role (I run West Coast, he is a Balanced Offense, Receiving TE).

The reason why I am saying it is flawed is because I am in the re-sign phase, during the season (he ended negotiations after my 2nd offer which was tenured before I played the 2nd game of the season). If this were the free agency period then I can understand the need to take into account all those other factors, but as it is had a somewhat legitimate asking price (he's old so giving him the money he wanted is risky but not absurd), if he truly wanted more he should have asked for more (or changed his asking price when my offer (which was more than what he was asking for) was too low for him the first time), if he really had no intention on re-signing with me then his asking price should have been absurd and he shouldn't have been "interested" in being re-signed in week 1 of the new season.

[Dr Death]

Re: Re-Sign Logic flawed?

We won the super bowl last year, he was a major target in my offense and figured to be this year. He is a 31 year old (will be 32 when he enters free agency), he doesn't fit my scheme in words but certainly in role (I run West Coast, he is a Balanced Offense, Receiving TE).

The reason why I am saying it is flawed is because I am in the re-sign phase, during the season (he ended negotiations after my 2nd offer which was tenured before I played the 2nd game of the season). If this were the free agency period then I can understand the need to take into account all those other factors, but as it is had a somewhat legitimate asking price (he's old so giving him the money he wanted is risky but not absurd), if he truly wanted more he should have asked for more (or changed his asking price when my offer (which was more than what he was asking for) was too low for him the first time), if he really had no intention on re-signing with me then his asking price should have been absurd and he shouldn't have been "interested" in being re-signed in week 1 of the new season.

This same thing has happened to me multiple times. And right now, in my Jets CFM, I have a rookie QB who is starting, Case Keenum as the backup and Chase Daniel as the 3rd string QB.

Daniel is in the final year of his deal, so I went to offer him a new deal - it's during the season, mind you - he wanted something like a 2-year deal for a total of $2.4 million... which is a LOT for a 3rd string QB. But, being from Missouri and having followed him at Mizzou, I like the guy, so I offered him a 3-year deal for a total of $3.8 million... since $2.4 came out to $1.2 a year, $3.8 is more per year and a longer deal for him.

He refused it. Said the offer was too low and if I don't raise it, he will explore free agency. And since this has happened to me so many times, I won't make him another offer. He's going to test free agency??? Fine. See if anybody else offers you a 3-year, $3.8 million dollar deal...

GRRRR!!! Some of the absolute nonsense in this game...

[bsurocksrule]

Re: Re-Sign Logic flawed?

I do agree that re-signing players is flawed. As a Seahawks fan, I typically run most of my CFM games as the Seahawks, and I have difficulty re-signing players to large contracts. One thing that annoys me is that it's hard to re-sign Russell Wilson, because he always asks for $20M+ a year and when I do, he rejects it. Same thing with Cliff Avril. I value defensive players highly, and I try to offer them more money typically than offensive players, and yet they still won't re-sign with me.

Granted, I do re-sign most of the players I offer, it's just the large contracts I can't sign that really piss me off. At least I can go to the draft and look for the positions I need. It's been a problem ever since the first CFM iteration.

[Sheep Ballz]

Re: Re-Sign Logic flawed?

I've discovered that if you change the number of years on their preferred contract, then they're gonna want a higher per-year average and likely a higher bonus as well.

I usually just give them the number of years they want, but up their preferred yearly salary a bit and they re-sign usually with no issues.

[PMO]

Re: Re-Sign Logic flawed?

I've discovered that if you change the number of years on their preferred contract, then they're gonna want a higher per-year average and likely a higher bonus as well.

I usually just give them the number of years they want, but up their preferred yearly salary a bit and they re-sign usually with no issues.

I am Carolina........ Cam wanted 6/$131...... I offered 6/$135 with a lot more bonus then he originally wanted and he accepted right away.

[i8urVTECZ28]

Re: Re-Sign Logic flawed?

I am Carolina........ Cam wanted 6/$131...... I offered 6/$135 with a lot more bonus then he originally wanted and he accepted right away.

I was about to say that the bonus is key. I've found that you can actually offer them lower than their asking price if the bonus constitutes a bigger chunk.

But then you run into another problem that has a detailed thread on this page. The bonus math is different than the salary math. You have to have enough available funds to cover the ENTIRE bonus when you offer it.

so if a player is offered 6 years @ a $5M bonus, you have to have $30M available funds to make that offer.

I'm not sure if this applies to FA signings as well, someone posted that it is only resignings. I can't get past the resignings on the first year so I can't confirm what FA's look like.

[Sheep Ballz]

Re: Re-Sign Logic flawed?

I was about to say that the bonus is key. I've found that you can actually offer them lower than their asking price if the bonus constitutes a bigger chunk.

But then you run into another problem that has a detailed thread on this page. The bonus math is different than the salary math. You have to have enough available funds to cover the ENTIRE bonus when you offer it.

so if a player is offered 6 years @ a $5M bonus, you have to have $30M available funds to make that offer.

I'm not sure if this applies to FA signings as well, someone posted that it is only resignings. I can't get past the resignings on the first year so I can't confirm what FA's look like.

If you're playing as the owner, then you may want to reconsider how you dish out those bonuses.

However, if you're the coach, you don't need to worry about it as much.

[PMO]

Re: Re-Sign Logic flawed?

If you're playing as the owner, then you may want to reconsider how you dish out those bonuses.

However, if you're the coach, you don't need to worry about it as much.

Exactly I am a coach............ran a test Sim season with Carolina as an owner and unlike last year this season it ended me with $30M.............yea sorry I can't do too much with $30M lol

[tessl]

Re: Re-Sign Logic flawed?

I was about to say that the bonus is key. I've found that you can actually offer them lower than their asking price if the bonus constitutes a bigger chunk.

But then you run into another problem that has a detailed thread on this page. The bonus math is different than the salary math. You have to have enough available funds to cover the ENTIRE bonus when you offer it.

so if a player is offered 6 years @ a $5M bonus, you have to have $30M available funds to make that offer.

I'm not sure if this applies to FA signings as well, someone posted that it is only resignings. I can't get past the resignings on the first year so I can't confirm what FA's look like.

The bonus is paid annually, not a one time thing? Is that a glitch which will be patched or is it functioning as intended?

[BreakingBad2013]

Re: Re-Sign Logic flawed?

The bonus is paid annually, not a one time thing? Is that a glitch which will be patched or is it functioning as intended?

In the NFL the bonus is paid throughout the contract. That is your "Guaranteed Money" Basically saying if you fulfill your part of the contract, each year your will get a base salary (Guarantee) which is your bonus per season. You always here "If they don't cut ______ they'll owe him 8 million by whatever date.

So in Madden you'll see the bonus added in each season, so you have the contract worth, and the bonus coming out each season. You don't need $30M cash to sign a player asking for a $6M bonus.

These players don't get lump sums like we think. The Bonus is normally spread out throughout the contract, to help the team, but also help the player, because that isn't money that can be touched by the organization if its Fully Guaranteed.

[PMO]

Re: Re-Sign Logic flawed?

In the NFL the bonus is paid throughout the contract. That is your "Guaranteed Money" Basically saying if you fulfill your part of the contract, each year your will get a base salary (Guarantee) which is your bonus per season. You always here "If they don't cut ______ they'll owe him 8 million by whatever date.

So in Madden you'll see the bonus added in each season, so you have the contract worth, and the bonus coming out each season. You don't need $30M cash to sign a player asking for a $6M bonus.

These players don't get lump sums like we think. The Bonus is normally spread out throughout the contract, to help the team, but also help the player, because that isn't money that can be touched by the organization if its Fully Guaranteed.

In real life that is 100% correct except for your forgetting the signing bonus which does instantly come out and is not spread out over the years.............Madden looks at the bonus money as ALL signing bonus, so yes when you give someone $6M a year annually in bonus over 5 years in Madden they take $30M out of your owners money right then and there..........

[Iceman87GT]

Re: Re-Sign Logic flawed?

In the NFL the bonus is paid throughout the contract. That is your "Guaranteed Money" Basically saying if you fulfill your part of the contract, each year your will get a base salary (Guarantee) which is your bonus per season. You always here "If they don't cut ______ they'll owe him 8 million by whatever date.

So in Madden you'll see the bonus added in each season, so you have the contract worth, and the bonus coming out each season. You don't need $30M cash to sign a player asking for a $6M bonus.

These players don't get lump sums like we think. The Bonus is normally spread out throughout the contract, to help the team, but also help the player, because that isn't money that can be touched by the organization if its Fully Guaranteed.

That's how it works in real life, but now how it works in Madden. Its messed up but it basically treats the bonus as the "guaranteed money" but instead of paying that guaranteed money out over time it does it all at once. In real life Guaranteed money is made up of the signing bonus, and non-roster/non-incentive bonus money (Bonuses are how teams cut down on salary cap hits, so they basically treat it as guaranteed salary but its a separate number from the actual base salary, and it gets paid to the player even if they wind up getting cut - Ray Rice will be making $8M next year because of this way of structuring contracts).

It actually kinda helps to have the bonuses covered immediately in that you don't get surprised by the guaranteed bonuses you have to pay out next year (i.e. you finish the season with 30M in available funds but the next week you are down to $6M because you forgot about all those bonuses), but it hurts in creating realistic contracts (also hurting that is the fact that you devise a yearly figure as opposed to weighting the contract, but I digress). It can be an issue depending on the state of the franchise you are taking over (super successful likely means your cap space is low which means you need to up the Bonuses, but put too much focus on bonuses and you wind up limiting how many players you can re-sign, if you aren't very successful and it takes time to rebuild your fanbase (and thus generate revenue) then you run into funds issues and depending on what team you take over you may or may not have the cap space to avoid handing out large bonuses).

Contracts in general need work, I feel they tried to simplify things and actually wind up making certain aspects of it even more confusing (its not like you can consult the internet on how things work in the real NFL to figure out what to do). And while I understand available funds can be an issue even for coaches in CFM I imagine it mainly only crops up with Owners and I feel if someone is actively choosing owner mode they will have some idea as to how the Salary Cap works and how you need to adjust your signings to comply with it (if they don't then they can always turn off the salary cap).