An epiphany about penalty sliders

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  • Blazzen
    Pro
    • Mar 2008
    • 786

    #1

    An epiphany about penalty sliders

    I think myself and many others have been thinking of penalty sliders backwards for a while now. You can't use RL logic, you have to use EA programming logic when thinking about penalty sliders.

    Raising/lower a penalty slider does not increase/decrease the referee's chance of calling the penalty. In the real NFL, defensive holding becomes a focus and now referees begin calling plays that weren't defensive holding last year but this year they are more sensitive to it and call it more often.

    That is NOT how things work in Madden.

    Increasing/decreasing a penalty slider does NOT increase/decrease the CPU referee's sensitivity to or likelihood of calling a penalty.

    Increasing a penalty slider increases the chance that the animation/action that may generate a penalty will occur.

    Offsides - causes the D line to "jump" a lot more often if on a higher setting. Causes the D line to get off the ball a lot faster.

    False Start - causes the O line to "jump" a lot more often if on a higher setting. Causes the O line to get off the ball a lot faster.

    Holding - causes the O-line to hold their blocks longer the higher the setting.

    Face Mask - causes more violent hits and face mask tackles to occur the higher the setting.

    Defensive Pass Interference - the higher the setting the more aggressive the defender will play the receiver. I could see it also making defenders jump routes more often.

    Offensive Pass Interference - the higher the setting the more aggressive the receiver will play the ball.

    KR/PR Interference - this is an odd one but I really believe this causes defenders to rally to the ball faster and you'll see more gang tackles.

    Clipping - higher setting should result in better blocking for returns and in the run game too I imagine.

    Intentional Grounding - this one is especially interesting because many people think you should set this lower so the CPU gets rid of the ball to avoid sacks. I actually think it may be the opposite. At a higher setting the CPU is more likely the throw the ball away which would possibly generate a grounding penalty.

    Roughing the passer - a higher setting will cause blitzers to go after the QB more aggressively, likely resulting in more sacks.

    Roughing the kicker - at a higher setting you see defenders get through the line and play more aggressive when trying to block kicks. At 100 I've come very close to having kicks blocked. Still haven't seen this called or had one blocked yet though but I'm sure it'll eventually happen.
    GamerTag: Blazzen85
    MLB: Atlanta Braves
    NFL: Carolina Panthers
    NBA: Charlotte Hornets
    NHL: Carolina Hurricanes
  • bubs3141
    Pro
    • Aug 2002
    • 853

    #2
    Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

    so what settings do you suggest?

    Comment

    • MarketingWiz
      Pro
      • Mar 2010
      • 780

      #3
      Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

      Interesting. I am curious.


      Let us know when you have played half a season on CFM mode in a placebo mode and then separately dial in your theory into the slider tuning and track the statistical data points, plot them, and have stopwatch numbers to objectively measure pocket presence and decision making in relation to the DE's collapsing the pocket. Compare your placebo against your theory through data analysis. Eager to see your data.

      Comment

      • rushinplayallgame
        Rookie
        • Aug 2014
        • 238

        #4
        Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

        Perhaps this is why my sliders gave people wildly different results, interesting, musst..... test....
        rushinplay allgame
        LA Rams: The Season
        GTA Online: Crew Spying

        Comment

        • 4thQtrStre5S
          MVP
          • Nov 2013
          • 3051

          #5
          Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

          At this point I agree 100% with the OP's premise....Would seem the animation that would trigger the penalty would have to happen so a penalty could be called...

          I believe it is safe to say that NFL players don't change play style because they have an official in game that is more likely to call a certain penalty more often; therefore, I am willing to believe that EA/Tiburon programmed penalties so that a player is more likely to initiate the animation for a call...

          Thus, to get a holding call, raising the slider higher, to increase calls, would logically mean, that blocks would have to be held longer, or at least attempted to be held longer, to increase the chance of initiating the holding animation; not held shorter in fear of a penalty call.

          Comment

          • Last Gunfighter
            "I reckon so."
            • Sep 2012
            • 891

            #6
            Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

            Originally posted by 4thQtrStre5S
            I believe it is safe to say that NFL players don't change play style because they have an official in game that is more likely to call a certain penalty more often
            Ummm, actually they do. Sean Payton said after Sunday's game against the Bucs that the team has meetings and reports every week regarding the refs that will be doing the game and make adjustments accordingly. For instance, they knew the crew who was doing this Sunday's game were more likely to call penalties, almost twice as many, than any of the other crews. As a result they were particularly aware of this on Sunday and it paid big dividends. He even said it was most likely the difference in the game and was the only thing that offset the turnover differential. Saints had 6 for 50 yds, Bucs had 15 for 113 yds!
            WHO DAT! | GEAUX TIGERS! | LET'S GO RANGERS!

            "If you work for a living, why do you kill yourself working?" -Tuco

            Comment

            • brak
              Rookie
              • Aug 2003
              • 20

              #7
              Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

              This is all good information, but the fact is that certain sliders don't work. Someone said on Clint Oldenburg's twitter that he hadn't seen holding called in 40+ games. His response? <strong>I'm not surprised.</strong>http://tinyurl.com/k92eqsn He also says penalties are a "feature, not a patch item." http://tinyurl.com/kot3utj So certain penalties not working and not being called is a design choice by the developers?? SMH

              If increasing the holding slider to 100 should make OL hold their blocks longer and should trigger more holding animations (which you're right, it should), and I significantly lower OL AWR, RBK and PBK, I should see holding penalties galore. I tried this. I saw none. I put my copy up for sale after reading the patch notes & Oldenburg's comments. It is frustrating to see this year after year, especially since the issue with the holding slider didn't exist in M25 (same engine), and I know OPI and DPI haven't worked right for years. An NFL football game that only calls false starts, encroachment, and facemask penalties at a realistic rate is not a realistic representation of football.

              Comment

              • KingV2k3
                Senior Circuit
                • May 2003
                • 5881

                #8
                Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

                Nice post, OP!

                I esp. concur with your take on IG and RTP, which IF they were as responsive as they had been in past iterations, could be used to take on the sack issue...

                I'd also suggest raising False Start and Holding, while lowering Offsides should give the OL a chance against the rush...

                I've been advocating something like:

                Offsides 40 (less jump for DL)
                False Start 60 (more jump for OL)
                Holding 60 (longer duration of block)
                Mask 55 (actually gets called around this number)
                DPI 100 (knocks receivers off their route in press coverage, like real life)
                OPI 100 (keeps up with the aggressiveness of DPI)
                KR / PR 50 (too hard to quantify, so default)
                Clip 55 (actually gets called)
                IG 80 (tested extensively with past iterations and NCAA...best overall pocket presence, IMO)
                RTP 5 (slow the bull rush)
                RTK 50 (too hard to quantify, default)

                Comment

                • agidio3
                  Rookie
                  • Oct 2008
                  • 428

                  #9
                  Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

                  I raised the IG last night and saw a ton more throws down field from the CPU

                  Comment

                  • MarketingWiz
                    Pro
                    • Mar 2010
                    • 780

                    #10
                    Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

                    Originally posted by agidio3
                    I raised the IG last night and saw a ton more throws down field from the CPU



                    ???


                    wow.




                    Comment

                    • schnaidt1
                      All Star
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 5198

                      #11
                      Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

                      Every year this thread is made with the exact same conclusion....can.it be stickied cuz this info has been the same for.years lol
                      Follow me on twitter @schnaidt1 and Youtube @Sim Gaming Network

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                      Comment

                      • Soonerskinsfan81
                        Rookie
                        • Aug 2014
                        • 50

                        #12
                        Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

                        So maybe we should leave the gameplay sliders for user and cpu @ 50/50 All-Pro and only adjust penalty sliders.

                        Has anyone tested this yet?

                        Comment

                        • NimitsTexan
                          Banned
                          • Mar 2007
                          • 806

                          #13
                          Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

                          Originally posted by Soonerskinsfan81
                          So maybe we should leave the gameplay sliders for user and cpu @ 50/50 All-Pro and only adjust penalty sliders.

                          Has anyone tested this yet?
                          Yeah, it was all the rage on old gen last year . . .

                          Comment

                          • Soonerskinsfan81
                            Rookie
                            • Aug 2014
                            • 50

                            #14
                            Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

                            Originally posted by KingV2k3
                            Nice post, OP!

                            I esp. concur with your take on IG and RTP, which IF they were as responsive as they had been in past iterations, could be used to take on the sack issue...

                            I'd also suggest raising False Start and Holding, while lowering Offsides should give the OL a chance against the rush...

                            I've been advocating something like:

                            Offsides 40 (less jump for DL)
                            False Start 60 (more jump for OL)
                            Holding 60 (longer duration of block)
                            Mask 55 (actually gets called around this number)
                            DPI 100 (knocks receivers off their route in press coverage, like real life)
                            OPI 100 (keeps up with the aggressiveness of DPI)
                            KR / PR 50 (too hard to quantify, so default)
                            Clip 55 (actually gets called)
                            IG 80 (tested extensively with past iterations and NCAA...best overall pocket presence, IMO)
                            RTP 5 (slow the bull rush)
                            RTK 50 (too hard to quantify, default)
                            Good stuff! I'm going to test these with my equal based sliders(posted in last gen slider forum) Only change is I will raise RTK, to around 75. Hope to see some better pursuit on SP teams and possibly a blocked kicked.

                            Thanks for the info guys!
                            Last edited by Soonerskinsfan81; 10-11-2014, 04:02 PM.

                            Comment

                            • tessl
                              All Star
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 5669

                              #15
                              Re: An epiphany about penalty sliders

                              Originally posted by Blazzen
                              I think myself and many others have been thinking of penalty sliders backwards for a while now. You can't use RL logic, you have to use EA programming logic when thinking about penalty sliders.

                              Raising/lower a penalty slider does not increase/decrease the referee's chance of calling the penalty. In the real NFL, defensive holding becomes a focus and now referees begin calling plays that weren't defensive holding last year but this year they are more sensitive to it and call it more often.

                              That is NOT how things work in Madden.

                              Increasing/decreasing a penalty slider does NOT increase/decrease the CPU referee's sensitivity to or likelihood of calling a penalty.

                              Increasing a penalty slider increases the chance that the animation/action that may generate a penalty will occur.

                              Offsides - causes the D line to "jump" a lot more often if on a higher setting. Causes the D line to get off the ball a lot faster.

                              False Start - causes the O line to "jump" a lot more often if on a higher setting. Causes the O line to get off the ball a lot faster.

                              Holding - causes the O-line to hold their blocks longer the higher the setting.

                              Face Mask - causes more violent hits and face mask tackles to occur the higher the setting.

                              Defensive Pass Interference - the higher the setting the more aggressive the defender will play the receiver. I could see it also making defenders jump routes more often.

                              Offensive Pass Interference - the higher the setting the more aggressive the receiver will play the ball.

                              KR/PR Interference - this is an odd one but I really believe this causes defenders to rally to the ball faster and you'll see more gang tackles.

                              Clipping - higher setting should result in better blocking for returns and in the run game too I imagine.

                              Intentional Grounding - this one is especially interesting because many people think you should set this lower so the CPU gets rid of the ball to avoid sacks. I actually think it may be the opposite. At a higher setting the CPU is more likely the throw the ball away which would possibly generate a grounding penalty.

                              Roughing the passer - a higher setting will cause blitzers to go after the QB more aggressively, likely resulting in more sacks.

                              Roughing the kicker - at a higher setting you see defenders get through the line and play more aggressive when trying to block kicks. At 100 I've come very close to having kicks blocked. Still haven't seen this called or had one blocked yet though but I'm sure it'll eventually happen.
                              I wonder if increasing the holding slider will decrease sacks?

                              Comment

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