Some thoughts on Rebounding, not a rant, just some questions and facts.

[Klayups]

This weekend I was playing MyTeam (which I have been doing a lot recently)

I picked up a Ruby Dennis Rodman card. This Dennis Rodman has a 99 in every rebounding category including boxout and Offensive and Defensive rebounding.

I think we can all agree that Dennis Rodman is one of if not the best rebounder of all time. He was tenacious on the glass.

In any event I was super excited to get this card and play with him on the team. I was expecting to get all of the rebounds or at least see the virtual representation of this, being that I did have Dennis Rodman one of the top 3 greatest rebounders of all time (again, his rebound ratings are 99.)

Well i played a few games to get a sample size and I can honestly say i saw no difference in having Dennis Rodman in the game verse Chris Bosh ( who is also on my team)

In fact Chris Bosh, in 5 games grabbed more rebounds than Dennis Rodman.

This got me thinking. First do these ratings truly matter? If so, in what way?

What does the "rebound" rating do? What does the boxout rating do?

The *expected result of someone who has a 99 three point shot is that when open that player hits a shot 99% of the time.

What is the expected result of someone who has a 99 in rebounding? One could surmise that the expected result is a clear visual representation or effect.

I just do not see that in this game, and I am nto too sure why. Is it the badges? Is it broken logic?

I know early on people were having beefs with the A.I offensive rebounding, which honestly I didn't have too big a problem with they seemed to be fair.

However delving in to other modes of play have seemed to unearth *problems* and I wanted to discuss. Perhaps its been addressed in the patch, but if not having some basic clarification of what these ratings do and their expected results would be great.

Fantastic even.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: Some thoughts on Rebounding, not a rant, just some questions and facts.

It's not just rebounding it's any loose ball that's weird in this game . Always in favor of the offense. I can't tell you how many times I have five for the ball and my guy lays on top of it but never grabs it.

Box out strength is really the only thing that matters. Everything else is athletic based

[Klayups]

Re: Some thoughts on Rebounding, not a rant, just some questions and facts.

It's not just rebounding it's any loose ball that's weird in this game . Always in favor of the offense. I can't tell you how many times I have five for the ball and my guy lays on top of it but never grabs it.

Box out strength is really the only thing that matters. Everything else is athletic based

There was an instance where OJ Mayo and Dennis Rodman were in the same vicinity , neither boxed out and Oj Mayo leaped up and grabbed the rebound over Dennis Rodman.

I dont know maybe we have too many ratings, and maybe they do too many things to the game.

[BluFu]

Re: Some thoughts on Rebounding, not a rant, just some questions and facts.

strength (i think), hustle, wingspan, body height, body length, and vertical all go into rebounds as well.

[DaPope13]

Re: Some thoughts on Rebounding, not a rant, just some questions and facts.

Why would body length?

[stillfeelme]

Re: Some thoughts on Rebounding, not a rant, just some questions and facts.

I wouldn't be surprised if height is a determining factor for Rodman not getting that many boards. I haven't played that many games with Chicago with him on there one way or another. I do know smaller guys like Reggie Evans can get boards and he is 6-8.

To be honest rebounding in this game is largely a scripted event. They have improved some of the animations but they have a ways to go. The game has decided most of the outcome the moment the shot is released. This is very clear especially playing against the CPU. Then you add momentum swings things can get very strange.

• The ball lands in the same spot over and over
• Hardly no variation in rim physics
• No long rebounds
• No tap outs
• You are delayed certain jumping attempts when going for a rebound very noticable on the offensive rebound end or you give a have hearted attempt to jump
• Players go to exact locations of where the rebound is time and time again.
• Guards will swoop in and grab a defensive rebound in the paint over bigs that have no business getting boards.
• Rebounding is part luck the ball needs to come near you, part skill boxout, and part effort.

Here is the thing for guys like Rodman who was a high hustle guy. He was able to do a lot of what he did because he could maintain that level of effort of rebounding and defensive without losing energy. That was his skill.

To answer your question the rebounding ratings are supposed to behave like a rebound rate to achieve a certain amount of rebounds. Think of it as a % of chance to get the rebound, boxout I think adds to it on court so said player wins the rebound.

Until 2K programs more realistic rebounding/rim physics and players guess on rebounds you will have some funky games where rebounding doesn't pass the realism test not all the time but noticeable at least to me it is.

[Klayups]

Re: Some thoughts on Rebounding, not a rant, just some questions and facts.

I wouldn't be surprised if height is a determining factor for Rodman not getting that many boards. I haven't played that many games with Chicago with him on there one way or another. I do know smaller guys like Reggie Evans can get boards and he is 6-8.

To be honest rebounding in this game is largely a scripted event. They have improved some of the animations but they have a ways to go. The game has decided most of the outcome the moment the shot is released. This is very clear especially playing against the CPU. Then you add momentum swings things can get very strange.

• The ball lands in the same spot over and over
• Hardly no variation in rim physics
• No long rebounds
• No tap outs
• You are delayed certain jumping attempts when going for a rebound very noticable on the offensive rebound end or you give a have hearted attempt to jump
• Players go to exact locations of where the rebound is time and time again.
• Guards will swoop in and grab a defensive rebound in the paint over bigs that have no business getting boards.
• Rebounding is part luck the ball needs to come near you, part skill boxout, and part effort.

Here is the thing for guys like Rodman who was a high hustle guy. He was able to do a lot of what he did because he could maintain that level of effort of rebounding and defensive without losing energy. That was his skill.

To answer your question the rebounding ratings are supposed to behave like a rebound rate to achieve a certain amount of rebounds. Think of it as a % of chance to get the rebound, boxout I think adds to it on court so said player wins the rebound.

Until 2K programs more realistic rebounding/rim physics and players guess on rebounds you will have some funky games where rebounding doesn't pass the realism test not all the time but noticeable at least to me it is.

I agree with you I don't know how their system works so i cant comment on it, i wanted to bring up something that bugged me in hopes it was looked at for future iterations.

Im an older gamer and playing with legends is fun for me, but only if I'm playing with them and they are being their legendary selves.(This is the standard 2k has brought to video games) Dennis Rodman not being a hustle/energy ELITE rebounder in the game is kin to Shaq shooting jumpers in my eyes.

It's frustrating when you have someone known to get every rebound, not be able to get every rebound...whatever the factor in that is.

On a fundamental basic level the ratings of 99 should mean that player is the BEST at that specific thing. How they determine that in the game, i don't know but it definitely needs a watchful eye.

[HowDareI]

Re: Some thoughts on Rebounding, not a rant, just some questions and facts.

Athleticism.

On my My Team I benched Mark Gasol, Vucevic, and Millsap..because Thad Young and Nerlens Noel grab more boards and block more shots/finish better on offense.

Nerlens grabs 10+ boards every game, and he doesn't even play that much..he just jumps higher than anyone else once the ball goes up.

[explicitskill]

Re: Some thoughts on Rebounding, not a rant, just some questions and facts.

It's definitely fun playing mycareer PF where i have 59 rebounding stats and still average 14 rebounds a game on 6 minute quarters, superstar. However, this does highlight the problem of the rebounding stats feeling almost meaningless.

Athleticism and height are the key. If your guy is fast, has high vertical, and is tall, he gets the rebound over almost anyone else. The only time I see the rebounding stats take effect is if 2 players reach the ball at almost the same exact time. Then usually I see the computer award the ball to the guy with higher rebounding stats. However, it doesn't feel like rebounding helps you get to the ball faster than the other guy who is fast but has low rebound stats.

Apart from 50/50 battles, I don't see rebounding having much of an effect at all. Like someone mentioned earlier, and I've noticed it as well. It's way easier to get rebounds with Nerlens Noel than it is with Vuc or Gasol. In fact Vuc is pretty bad at getting rebounds from what I've seen because he is slow and doesn't have a high vertical. Except, in real life he's 5th best in the league in rebounds and is having a breakout season.

[Marshallnx]

Re: Some thoughts on Rebounding, not a rant, just some questions and facts.

I have got a few for that ball and also my own gentleman lays over it yet certainly not holds it.

[Klayups]

Re: Some thoughts on Rebounding, not a rant, just some questions and facts.

It's definitely fun playing mycareer PF where i have 59 rebounding stats and still average 14 rebounds a game on 6 minute quarters, superstar. However, this does highlight the problem of the rebounding stats feeling almost meaningless.

Athleticism and height are the key. If your guy is fast, has high vertical, and is tall, he gets the rebound over almost anyone else. The only time I see the rebounding stats take effect is if 2 players reach the ball at almost the same exact time. Then usually I see the computer award the ball to the guy with higher rebounding stats. However, it doesn't feel like rebounding helps you get to the ball faster than the other guy who is fast but has low rebound stats.

Apart from 50/50 battles, I don't see rebounding having much of an effect at all. Like someone mentioned earlier, and I've noticed it as well. It's way easier to get rebounds with Nerlens Noel than it is with Vuc or Gasol. In fact Vuc is pretty bad at getting rebounds from what I've seen because he is slow and doesn't have a high vertical. Except, in real life he's 5th best in the league in rebounds and is having a breakout season.

I'm starting to notice this more and more.

Perhaps the boxout rating is broken?

[coached17]

Re: Some thoughts on Rebounding, not a rant, just some questions and facts.

The ineffectiveness of Ruby Rodman...or pretty much any Rodman in this game is disappointing - and may show some of the issues the game has with rebounding.

It's odd...because I have noticed that when I manually control Rodman to rebound, he grabs everything. But as a CPU-controlled player, he seems to be basically worthless.

As far as Rodman goes...it seems as though the game doesn't accurately have a way to factor in his MOTOR. I know there is a "Hustle" rating, but it doesn't seem to have much of an effect.

As far as rebounding goes, as others have mentioned height and athleticism still seem to be the two main factors. Its why Randy Breuer dominates on the glass for me at 7-3 despite mediocre rebounding ratings.


The weird thing with Rodman is that he just doesn't seem to play like Rodman...even though there are other players in the game who kind of do. For example, Reggie Evans is a similar style of player to Rodman, albeit less effective. But I'm able to have success with Evans more than Rodman....same goes for a guy like Anderson Varejao.

These guys play like Rodman should...it's weird.

I still think rebounding in the game is pretty solid, and is possibly the best it's ever been...but there do seem to be some issues that pop up here and there.

[Gosens6]

Re: Some thoughts on Rebounding, not a rant, just some questions and facts.

No one seems to notice the absence of long rebounds, tip backs, etc.

That, coupled with the randomness of everything, the cpu undoubtedly getting tiny boosts to grab the most unlikely of rebounds, there is absolutely nothing organic about rebounding in this game.

Thats why I never understand the cats who say, "2K don't change the game, it's perfect, the guys who complain just suck at the game"

I love this game too, but rebounding is definitely one of the major things that need change. Totally revamping rebounding can go a long way to making this game better.

[stillfeelme]

Re: Some thoughts on Rebounding, not a rant, just some questions and facts.

No one seems to notice the absence of long rebounds, tip backs, etc.

That, coupled with the randomness of everything, the cpu undoubtedly getting tiny boosts to grab the most unlikely of rebounds, there is absolutely nothing organic about rebounding in this game.

Thats why I never understand the cats who say, "2K don't change the game, it's perfect, the guys who complain just suck at the game"

I love this game too, but rebounding is definitely one of the major things that need change. Totally revamping rebounding can go a long way to making this game better.

Preach,

I am glad I am not the only one who has noticed it. Man I have been saying this for years rebounding as a whole has so far to go. There is too many things that are missing about rebounding that makes it just not right. What is funny everything you typed I also put in the wishlist thread, so I hope they are listening. The rebounding has so far to go. I agree 100% with your post man

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: Some thoughts on Rebounding, not a rant, just some questions and facts.

I just hate how sometimes it feels scripted But it's improved a lot