Adaptive AI

[canes21]

It seemed like years ago everyone clamored for adaptive AI in Madden/NCAA. It was finally introduced in NCAA 10, but in a poor effort. Instead of the AI truly picking up on your tendencies, the game just gave them attribute boosts if you ran the same plays over and over.

It never really worked that well and you could still use a 5 play playbook and win every game if you wanted.

Now with Madden 15 out, EA talked about how they really revamped adaptive AI and it mimics more of what we wanted from the beginning.

I was just wondering how everyone here feels about it. Do you even notice it? Do you like or love it?

I personally see it and love it. Every game is different for once. Every drive is different. I can't just run the same plays over and over. I can actually use PA, use fake snaps, bluff my coverage, etc.

For once in a football game I can out think the AI from a strategic standpoint, or even be beaten in the chess game myself. There's been plenty of times I've gotten repetitive on both sides of the ball and I see the AI switch things up and start destroying me until I figure out how to adjust.

So I personally love the adaptive AI. It actually changes the game for the first time in a football game. I hope EA expands upon it and really takes it further in future iterations because it really is what keeps me playing 5 years into my franchise.

[fistofrage]

Re: Adaptive AI

It seemed like years ago everyone clamored for adaptive AI in Madden/NCAA. It was finally introduced in NCAA 10, but in a poor effort. Instead of the AI truly picking up on your tendencies, the game just gave them attribute boosts if you ran the same plays over and over.

It never really worked that well and you could still use a 5 play playbook and win every game if you wanted.

Now with Madden 15 out, EA talked about how they really revamped adaptive AI and it mimics more of what we wanted from the beginning.

I was just wondering how everyone here feels about it. Do you even notice it? Do you like or love it?

I personally see it and love it. Every game is different for once. Every drive is different. I can't just run the same plays over and over. I can actually use PA, use fake snaps, bluff my coverage, etc.

For once in a football game I can out think the AI from a strategic standpoint, or even be beaten in the chess game myself. There's been plenty of times I've gotten repetitive on both sides of the ball and I see the AI switch things up and start destroying me until I figure out how to adjust.

So I personally love the adaptive AI. It actually changes the game for the first time in a football game. I hope EA expands upon it and really takes it further in future iterations because it really is what keeps me playing 5 years into my franchise.

I don't run the trap play over and over, but I hear if you run it, the AI will never adapt and you can get 4 yards per carry almost every time without the AI ever stacking the box.

[canes21]

Re: Adaptive AI

I run it and see the AI put 8 and 9 in the box constantly. The play is just money.

[WingedLion14]

Re: Adaptive AI

I tend to only run WR screens out of Empty Gun sets (West Coast Offense playbook, so no five-wide). One game where I killed the AI in the first quarter with the play for a total of 120 yards, it started playing man whenever I was in that formation, and they kept jumping the route on the screen. Didn't work once the rest of the game.

[mlb61]

Re: Adaptive AI

I don't run the trap play over and over, but I hear if you run it, the AI will never adapt and you can get 4 yards per carry almost every time without the AI ever stacking the box.

Depends on the matchups. If 1) your pulling guard is elite (with excellent athleticism), and 2) your other linemen are good, and your 3) HB has good AWR plus good BCV , the play tends to work consistently. Not so much the better the trapped DT is. Elite run-stopping DTs tend to blow up the trap as often as not. And, if you run a trap every series, the CPU will overload the middle with 3 DLs and 2 LBs, outnumbering your blockers or call stunts/blitzes to complicate your OL's blocking assignments.

[Shady Mike]

Re: Adaptive AI

Funny how threads like this get swept under the rug, it's funny because games like The Show and 2K are constantly focusing on simulation aspects, while all EA focuses on Ultimate team so casual players like Chris Smoove will enjoy it more.

[Jay5Ice]

Re: Adaptive AI

Funny how threads like this get swept under the rug, it's funny because games like The Show and 2K are constantly focusing on simulation aspects, while all EA focuses on Ultimate team so casual players like Chris Smoove will enjoy it more.

Have u played the show and 2k this year? . The show was fun when it worked lol but you barely could finish games. Prolly had hundred losses online from freezes and 2k so terrible online man I really wish I could get my money back.

[mmorg]

Re: Adaptive AI

Have u played the show and 2k this year? . The show was fun when it worked lol but you barely could finish games. Prolly had hundred losses online from freezes and 2k so terrible online man I really wish I could get my money back.

Well considering this thread is about Adaptive AI and playing against the computer I don't think online gaming against other people has anything to do with the topic.

[Wordsworthtre]

Re: Adaptive AI

I tend to just operate wr screens away from Clean Gun units.

[TreFacTor]

Re: Adaptive AI

The makers of Madden prefer to have AI that simply adjusts attributes on the fly and makes "football moments" happen rather than to even try to develop adaptive ai. They would rather have the computer know what play you picked, and pick it's play according to that. This is evident at the goal line on ANY difficulty. If you line up at the goal line and have picked a run play, 9/10 the computer will call for a goal line formation NO MATTER WHAT FORMATION THE USER PICKED. It's impossible not to score in a scenario that presents itself that often. All you simply have to do is call a pass play and then audible to a run and you walk in because of the psychic ability of the cpu....it's the biggest disappointment every year to know that they simply refuse to change the play calling of the cpu and won't let the stats (they pay someone to make up) play a role in the game. You will never see things that come into play in a regular pop warner game (bad coaching, bad ref calls, poor player decisions, miscommunication) in Madden because it's either too hard, they don't have the time (even though they consistently take 3 year breaks on improvements for "new" advancements), or they have no clue how to make it happen.

There have been threads upon threads over the years giving suggestions on how to fix the ai. Hell, a down and distance vs personnel would even be better than an opponent you know is simply cheating or simply have humans play vs the cpu and record it's tendencies and embellish that as AI if needed...

Playing 15 this weekend really got me to thinking....there are so many missing elements in Madden that you see on Sunday, players making the wrong decisions, passes ACTUALLY being defended instead of corners running the receivers routes, why a lineman HAD to hold...it's little intricacies that Madden simply doesn't have which is why when we are playing, we are just watching football moments happen according to what's allowed through the animations. You would think that with the power of the current systems that these things can and should be implemented, but they never will as long as the only thing that matters is the game looking good.

[cpic1]

Re: Adaptive AI

The makers of Madden prefer to have AI that simply adjusts attributes on the fly and makes "football moments" happen rather than to even try to develop adaptive ai. They would rather have the computer know what play you picked, and pick it's play according to that. This is evident at the goal line on ANY difficulty. If you line up at the goal line and have picked a run play, 9/10 the computer will call for a goal line formation NO MATTER WHAT FORMATION THE USER PICKED. It's impossible not to score in a scenario that presents itself that often. All you simply have to do is call a pass play and then audible to a run and you walk in because of the psychic ability of the cpu....it's the biggest disappointment every year to know that they simply refuse to change the play calling of the cpu and won't let the stats (they pay someone to make up) play a role in the game. You will never see things that come into play in a regular pop warner game (bad coaching, bad ref calls, poor player decisions, miscommunication) in Madden because it's either too hard, they don't have the time (even though they consistently take 3 year breaks on improvements for "new" advancements), or they have no clue how to make it happen.

There have been threads upon threads over the years giving suggestions on how to fix the ai. Hell, a down and distance vs personnel would even be better than an opponent you know is simply cheating or simply have humans play vs the cpu and record it's tendencies and embellish that as AI if needed...

Playing 15 this weekend really got me to thinking....there are so many missing elements in Madden that you see on Sunday, players making the wrong decisions, passes ACTUALLY being defended instead of corners running the receivers routes, why a lineman HAD to hold...it's little intricacies that Madden simply doesn't have which is why when we are playing, we are just watching football moments happen according to what's allowed through the animations. You would think that with the power of the current systems that these things can and should be implemented, but they never will as long as the only thing that matters is the game looking good.

Bravo! Couldn't have said it better myself. It feels like to me the "adaptive AI" in this game isn't about adjustments, it's about player ratings increasing/decreasing on the fly.

Most games I play tend to have one team dominate each half and the game comes down to the final 5 minutes. I had a game recently that I was down 31-7 midway through the 3rd quarter. All of a sudden my defense went crazy stopping everything. My QB got on a roll and I won 35-34. It was cool to come back, but it felt cheesy.

A game I played today I was up 17 at half. In the 2nd half I started getting flagged for holding, their QB got hot and mine started randomly missing wide open receivers. The kicker was that I had the ball in their territory with about 3 minutes left up 7. In FG range I was running the ball to milk the clock to kick the FG to put me up 10. Low and behold, I fumble on 3rd down. Naturally the computer, with their backup QB, marches right down the field to tie the game. Luckily I won in OT.

I realize in the NFL these things happen, but they are rare. That's what makes them cool. When they happen almost every game it makes it cheesy. It feels like teams get their ratings boosted by what's on the scoreboard.


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[NimitsTexan]

Re: Adaptive AI

I dunno; that seemed like how pretty much every game of the Cowboys season went, last year...