List of Goaltender Fixes For NHL 16

[AdamJones113]

I have compiled the list from the old thread. In no particular order (may revise at a later date), but generally ranging from general to specific.


1. Skating/Movement Overhaul
Currently there are no T-pushes, which is a keystone of goaltender skating. The poor skating and movement leave goalies susceptible to so many backhand-forehand goals; even the slightest feint will send goalies miles out of position resulting in easy goals. Goalies are not very fluid: they have to go down before they can move side-to-side in the butterfly, as opposed to moving side-to-side while going down. Same with standing up. Also, goalies would like to skate with the puck please.

2. Save Mechanics Overhaul
Desperation saves are way too common in the game. This is a result of the poor movement, but the focus here is how unrealistic the patented warp-fly across the crease is. Goaltenders (in game) do this as much as they can. Again, it is a stretching problem. No goalie in the game stretches their glove (or blocker, more rare though) to make a great on-the-line save, as is "common" in the real NHL. It's a classic case of EA trying to make the position glamorous, by putting in famous saves like the pad stack and the Hasek roll but not getting the fundamentals right.

3. Goaltender Differentiation
This has been talked through to death by now, because it's a problem with skaters as well. But, as someone said in a recent thread (don't remember who, sorry), if I were to not see the goalie's name and if it weren't the team he's associated with I would have no clue which goalie I'd be playing against. Martin Brodeur played the same as Carey Price and the same as King Henrik (plays? Did they take Marty out or not?). There is barely any difference and again, the real NHL (which I hope emulating would be the goal) is miles apart.

4. Proper Positioning and Rotations
I have already made several threads about the VH and reverse-VH. That's merely an example of positioning. And recurring examples—such as short-side snipe after short-side snipe—need to be fixed. Location, location, location. What I mean by rotations is that goalies shouldn't pivot and let the puck trickle in that way. You've all seen it.

5. More Autonomous Equipment Movement
I refer mainly to the stick, which does pretty much nothing. Of course, the control scheme would have to be reworked... but I'm sure most people are OK with that. This would also revolutionize goalie passing... I know everyone is OK with that.



Keep 'em coming. Remember, these are things that should be re-done/overhauled, not necessarily minute details (which there are a ton).

I'll post a list of fixes later, when there are more additions (I will add to this OP as the suggestions come in).

[csamuelsvt]

Re: List of Goaltender Fixes For NHL 16

great great GREAT thread.

Goalie differentiation/signature styles. I've said it earlier as others as well. Make Quick different than Pekka Rinne who is different than Luongo etc etc. One thing I hate is the goalies go down way way too quick and then move completely unrealistic to how they should. It's just UGLY to look at. Fix this as you mentioned above.

The differentiation will make the game feel so fresh and make you think like an NHL player on how to beat all of these different goalies. Even if it takes time, make maybe 10 goalies different at the start and then work your way up.

They completely revamped goalies for NHL '07 and i loved it. I remember playing that demo on Xbox360 and it was a fun. NHL 16 NEEDS to fix the goalies completely...it is time. Fifa 15 did this I believe, time for the NHL series.

[MacCLovin]

Re: List of Goaltender Fixes For NHL 16

Good thread. It is extremely frustrating when a goalie goes to make the big sweeping glove save on a slow wrister, and then have the puck bounce off the glove and in bc of the lack of animations. I see this wayyy too often.

[ericromain]

Re: List of Goaltender Fixes For NHL 16

Great post Adam, I agree on all points. Goalies need be taken out of last gen, hopefully this is an area of focus for NHL16.

Along with revamping goalies in the crease, I think goalies skating outside the crease needs to be entirely redone. I don't think my below list has changed since NHL 08?
1. Goalies currently skate with awkward short choppy strides. Real life goalies glides and have long powerful strides.
2. Puck handling. Passing a puck with a goalie feels more like playing bubble hockey than NHL hockey.
3. Remove the return of the passing bubble. If your goalie unwisely passes the puck toward your opponent, it should be banged in your goal.

[shogunofharlem3]

Re: List of Goaltender Fixes For NHL 16

I spent a ton of time editing goalies in NHL 2k10 and NHL 14. The main thing I tried to do was make them less frantic. In both games the goalies movements would get crazy due to their attribute ratings. NHL 14 goalies would do that butterfly position slide with no animation as if someone had a magnet under the table sliding them around to attempt to square them up.

When I edited I tried to force movement by lowering certain ratings to make them push when in butterfly. Pre edit and still post edit, once a goalie makes a save in butterfly more often than not, instead of turning shoulders toward the rebound or pass and then push, they instead to that spread eagle, end up on my butt save attempt. That is poor save selection choice.

I would, of course redoing the animations for skating and goalies as a whole, redefine the save selections and distances at which they are shot and or one timers, one timer tips.

Just thinking out loud here, redefine save selections. Thinking of what saves I make when I attempt to still play old man hockey.

Slap Shot Clear (looking to steer rebound to corner boards)
Slap Shot Traffic (staying square and big in case of deflection and ready for a rebound save if I can't corral the puck)
Wrist Shot same to modifiers
Cross Crease
2 on 1
3 on 2
breakaway
screen
one timers
rebounds
desperation
down and out survival
lost stick

If we redefine, without handcuffing, the save selections things will look much more natural.

One other though, how about a modifier button on defense that will essentially be the goalie yelling "I got shot" so he'll stay square we control defense to take away pass. Just a thought, gotta be some goalie control out there without actually full on controlling him.

One last point. When you take a goalie deep they never get their shoulders on the post which is why on breakaway you can always take them left right go deep and score. They CANT stop that because they never take away that space.

Great thread. I'll be back for more I'm sure. I really like 14 post edit. Played 15 on One, fun but too many missing options and no editing rosters. Really hope 16 is full and has great goalies especially.

[AdamJones113]

Re: List of Goaltender Fixes For NHL 16

Good thread. It is extremely frustrating when a goalie goes to make the big sweeping glove save on a slow wrister, and then have the puck bounce off the glove and in bc of the lack of animations. I see this wayyy too often.

Number 2: Rehaul Save mechanics

Great post Adam, I agree on all points. Goalies need be taken out of last gen, hopefully this is an area of focus for NHL16.

Along with revamping goalies in the crease, I think goalies skating outside the crease needs to be entirely redone. I don't think my below list has changed since NHL 08?
1. Goalies currently skate with awkward short choppy strides. Real life goalies glides and have long powerful strides.
2. Puck handling. Passing a puck with a goalie feels more like playing bubble hockey than NHL hockey.
3. Remove the return of the passing bubble. If your goalie unwisely passes the puck toward your opponent, it should be banged in your goal.

1. 1—Skating
2. 1 & 5
3. Specific. I'll add it though. Good call.

I spent a ton of time editing goalies in NHL 2k10 and NHL 14. The main thing I tried to do was make them less frantic. In both games the goalies movements would get crazy due to their attribute ratings. NHL 14 goalies would do that butterfly position slide with no animation as if someone had a magnet under the table sliding them around to attempt to square them up.

When I edited I tried to force movement by lowering certain ratings to make them push when in butterfly. Pre edit and still post edit, once a goalie makes a save in butterfly more often than not, instead of turning shoulders toward the rebound or pass and then push, they instead to that spread eagle, end up on my butt save attempt. That is poor save selection choice.

I would, of course redoing the animations for skating and goalies as a whole, redefine the save selections and distances at which they are shot and or one timers, one timer tips.

Just thinking out loud here, redefine save selections. Thinking of what saves I make when I attempt to still play old man hockey.

Slap Shot Clear (looking to steer rebound to corner boards)
Slap Shot Traffic (staying square and big in case of deflection and ready for a rebound save if I can't corral the puck)
Wrist Shot same to modifiers
Cross Crease
2 on 1
3 on 2
breakaway
screen
one timers

If we redefine, without handcuffing, the save selections things will look much more natural.

One other though, how about a modifier button on defense that will essentially be the goalie yelling "I got shot" so he'll stay square we control defense to take away pass. Just a thought, gotta be some goalie control out there without actually full on controlling him.

One last point. When you take a goalie deep they never get their shoulders on the post which is why on breakaway you can always take them left right go deep and score. They CANT stop that because they never take away that space.

Great thread. I'll be back for more I'm sure. I really like 14 post edit. Played 15 on One, fun but too many missing options and no editing rosters. Really hope 16 is full and has great goalies especially.

2—Save mechanics overhaul. I love the points though. Especially the spacing, which is agreed abysmal. Love playing NHL 14 with edits. However, I think NHL 13 was better (for many reasons, but being able to score 5-hole was important). That's a topic for another thread!

great great GREAT thread.

Goalie differentiation/signature styles. I've said it earlier as others as well. Make Quick different than Pekka Rinne who is different than Luongo etc etc. One thing I hate is the goalies go down way way too quick and then move completely unrealistic to how they should. It's just UGLY to look at. Fix this as you mentioned above.

The differentiation will make the game feel so fresh and make you think like an NHL player on how to beat all of these different goalies. Even if it takes time, make maybe 10 goalies different at the start and then work your way up.

They completely revamped goalies for NHL '07 and i loved it. I remember playing that demo on Xbox360 and it was a fun. NHL 16 NEEDS to fix the goalies completely...it is time. Fifa 15 did this I believe, time for the NHL series.

3—differentiation.


Good stuff folks. Good examples: I didn't have them in the OP because I wanted to be more general, but I will definitely revise/add to the list.

[bigwill33]

Re: List of Goaltender Fixes For NHL 16

They really need to put the time into making each goaltender unique. Goalies are like Pitchers in MLBtheShow or QB's in Madden when it comes to uniqueness. Each plays with a style that is similar to someone before them, yet substantially different enough to make them identifiable by their play and abilities.

I also agree with what ericromain was saying. The way goalies free-skate and are able to play the puck is awful in this game, and has been for quite some time. The exploit of a user taking over and coming out of the net to run interference on a free puck behind the goal line is such an awful looking cheese event in online because of how the game is programmed. Then we get into how goalies pass and can clear the puck with relative ease, or are stuck in a turn around animation.

Goalies are known for their different abilities to play the puck. We all know that certain guys are magicians with the goalie blades. For others, it is an adventure every time they leave the crease to make a play on the puck. Where is that represented in the NHL series? It is such a big factor in real life, especially in a playoff series. Teams have to strategize around those types of goalies that can come out and cut off a dump in or hard wrap around the boards because so much of the playoffs is a fight to gain space. Not this dekefest with up and down hockey all night.

Goalies can't even wrap it around the boards hard in the NHL video game. They can't attempt to bank it off of the glass. And every goalie is the same, there are different styles of goalies (standup, hybrid, butterfly) but within those 3 categories they are all the exact same in terms of movement and style. The only difference the ratings has on them is how fast they warp into a save animation or how off their angle they might end up from the puck carriers movements.

Truly awful! And yet there is how many people on these very boards insisting on telling us how great the game play of NHL is?

[AdamJones113]

Re: List of Goaltender Fixes For NHL 16

They really need to put the time into making each goaltender unique. Goalies are like Pitchers in MLBtheShow or QB's in Madden when it comes to uniqueness. Each plays with a style that is similar to someone before them, yet substantially different enough to make them identifiable by their play and abilities.

I also agree with what ericromain was saying. The way goalies free-skate and are able to play the puck is awful in this game, and has been for quite some time. The exploit of a user taking over and coming out of the net to run interference on a free puck behind the goal line is such an awful looking cheese event in online because of how the game is programmed. Then we get into how goalies pass and can clear the puck with relative ease, or are stuck in a turn around animation.

Goalies are known for their different abilities to play the puck. We all know that certain guys are magicians with the goalie blades. For others, it is an adventure every time they leave the crease to make a play on the puck. Where is that represented in the NHL series? It is such a big factor in real life, especially in a playoff series. Teams have to strategize around those types of goalies that can come out and cut off a dump in or hard wrap around the boards because so much of the playoffs is a fight to gain space. Not this dekefest with up and down hockey all night.

Goalies can't even wrap it around the boards hard in the NHL video game. They can't attempt to bank it off of the glass. And every goalie is the same, there are different styles of goalies (standup, hybrid, butterfly) but within those 3 categories they are all the exact same in terms of movement and style. The only difference the ratings has on them is how fast they warp into a save animation or how off their angle they might end up from the puck carriers movements.

Truly awful! And yet there is how many people on these very boards insisting on telling us how great the game play of NHL is?

Well said, as usual. I appreciate the point of teams having to strategize around specific goalies in real life; in EA NHL such a thing is unheard of. Fixes list tomorrow.

In appreciation I will post this video.


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HPSUr2sd-FU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[shogunofharlem3]

Re: List of Goaltender Fixes For NHL 16

If it is in the game as the ea slogan says, could we add a backup goalie door opening rating to get guys off the ice on line changes. I know as a backup in high school I could open a door like no other!

In all seriousness, I am watching the Bruin's game now. I am focusing on Tuukka when the puck is in the zone. He is simple yet dynamic. Short, compact, quick moves. There was just a situation where the pass went back to the dman and he had tons of time to skate in with the puck, wound up slapshot and Tuukka was coming way out to challenge, the guy sort of faked and wound back up, Tuukka had made his move.

Guy ripped it, hit the pile of guys and watching Tuukka retreat quickly, not desparation, just stayed low, and pushed himself backwards into the net and played percentages, next shot hit his pad and he never saw it. But is immediate instinct to get back into the net and take away the bottom half was awesome to watch.

That said, the leverage system needs to be worked on so players can't so easily lift every puck into the corner. Adding a leverage system will help with the goalies save selection. I know when I see a guy with the puck in front of him and pressue coming at me, I stay low because no way he'll be able to lift the puck, let alone perfectly place it in the corner.

Now, back to door opening ratings. I'd be a 99 all day!

[bigwill33]

Re: List of Goaltender Fixes For NHL 16

If it is in the game as the ea slogan says, could we add a backup goalie door opening rating to get guys off the ice on line changes. I know as a backup in high school I could open a door like no other!

In all seriousness, I am watching the Bruin's game now. I am focusing on Tuukka when the puck is in the zone. He is simple yet dynamic. Short, compact, quick moves. There was just a situation where the pass went back to the dman and he had tons of time to skate in with the puck, wound up slapshot and Tuukka was coming way out to challenge, the guy sort of faked and wound back up, Tuukka had made his move.

Guy ripped it, hit the pile of guys and watching Tuukka retreat quickly, not desparation, just stayed low, and pushed himself backwards into the net and played percentages, next shot hit his pad and he never saw it. But is immediate instinct to get back into the net and take away the bottom half was awesome to watch.

That said, the leverage system needs to be worked on so players can't so easily lift every puck into the corner. Adding a leverage system will help with the goalies save selection. I know when I see a guy with the puck in front of him and pressue coming at me, I stay low because no way he'll be able to lift the puck, let alone perfectly place it in the corner.

Now, back to door opening ratings. I'd be a 99 all day!

You could have even taken this one step further because Rask didn't start tonight. Compare what you saw with him versus Svedberg, who didn't look so good.

[shogunofharlem3]

Re: List of Goaltender Fixes For NHL 16

Tuukka was playing when I was watching. I was at baseball. Missed the early part. I'd give Sveddy an EA 86 overall on door opening....wouldn't want that player separation too much.

[TheChillUmpire]

Re: List of Goaltender Fixes For NHL 16

When shogunofharlem mentioned backup goalies, it got me thinking that there should be a stat related to a backup goalies effectiveness when entering a game cold. Some backup goalies come into games better than others. Some come in and are as effective as they normally would be while others have a hard time coming off the bench cold.

The stat would be a general representation of how well the goalie will preform once he is called on to replace the starter as a result of injury or poor play. The stat could also be dynamic in that the goalie could play worse if he is called on with no time to get ready (ie. Injury to the starter) or better if he does (ie. The starter gets pulled after the first period and the backup has the entire intermission to get ready).

To make that work to a degree, the ability for a goalie to get injured during play would have to exist. That might be one way to stop goalies from interfering with opponents on free pucks. The problem would be the other team running a goalie to get him injured.

[AdamJones113]

Re: List of Goaltender Fixes For NHL 16

Here is the list of fixes for the initial list (which I will edit later today or tomorrow):


1. Skating/Movement Overhaul
Currently there are no T-pushes, which is a keystone of goaltender skating. The poor skating and movement leave goalies susceptible to so many backhand-forehand goals; even the slightest feint will send goalies miles out of position resulting in easy goals. Goalies are not very fluid: they have to go down before they can move side-to-side in the butterfly, as opposed to moving side-to-side while going down. Same with standing up. Also, goalies would like to skate with the puck please.

This is something that has to be fixed with programming. Goalies have to be more fluid and more representative of real life. Implementing T-pushes and proper cross-crease movement is the first step. Warping also has to be decreased for this to work, and with 12-player physics it looks like physics for the oh-so-important 11th and 12th players (numbered by EA's logic) is possible.

2. Save Mechanics Overhaul
Desperation saves are way too common in the game. This is a result of the poor movement, but the focus here is how unrealistic the patented warp-fly across the crease is. Goaltenders (in game) do this as much as they can. Again, it is a stretching problem. No goalie in the game stretches their glove (or blocker, more rare though) to make a great on-the-line save, as is "common" in the real NHL. It's a classic case of EA trying to make the position glamorous, by putting in famous saves like the pad stack and the Hasek roll but not getting the fundamentals right.

Yet another thing that the game itself has to do right. And really, it is not right at all at the moment. Stretching may seem tough to implement, but the physics should be similar to a poke check, with the arm stretching itself. This cuts out the ridiculous warp-dives. As shogun said, there are a lot of different saves. The goalie has to be programmed to play the puck with all of the goalie's equipment (i.e. gloves, blockers, pads) rather than trying to get his body in front of the shot.

3. Goaltender Differentiation
This has been talked through to death by now, because it's a problem with skaters as well. But, as someone said in a recent thread (don't remember who, sorry), if I were to not see the goalie's name and if it weren't the team he's associated with I would have no clue which goalie I'd be playing against. Martin Brodeur played the same as Carey Price and the same as King Henrik (plays? Did they take Marty out or not?). There is barely any difference and again, the real NHL (which I hope emulating would be the goal) is miles apart.

This is something that can be programmed (preferably, but doubtful) but more likely something that roster editing would allow. And I'm fine with that. I'd prefer to see focus on things only programming can take care of, and let us do the goaltender differentiation.

4. Proper Positioning and Rotations
I have already made several threads about the VH and reverse-VH. That's merely an example of positioning. And recurring examples—such as short-side snipe after short-side snipe—need to be fixed. Location, location, location. What I mean by rotations is that goalies shouldn't pivot and let the puck trickle in that way. You've all seen it.

There are two ways to do this. EA can and should program goalies to reflect real-life styles and mannerisms (which is necessary in some cases), as bigwill said, but once again I wouldn't complain too much if there were options to edit goalies—in depth. VERY in-depth.

5. More Autonomous Equipment Movement
I refer mainly to the stick, which does pretty much nothing. Of course, the control scheme would have to be reworked... but I'm sure most people are OK with that. This would also revolutionize goalie passing... I know everyone is OK with that.

Programming. See fix for #2.



Keep it coming. I feel like this thread has been very productive and will only get better... something that the 'GameChangers' can bring to EA's studio.

[AdamJones113]

Re: List of Goaltender Fixes For NHL 16

Wondering—does it feel like goalies bite too hard on a backhand-forehand or do they react too slowly?

[csamuelsvt]

Re: List of Goaltender Fixes For NHL 16

Wondering—does it feel like goalies bite too hard on a backhand-forehand or do they react too slowly?

They do. They go down SUPER early as well. EA just needs to completely mo cap at least 3 different goalie styles.

Bring in 3 goalies, butterfly, standup, hybrid and whatever else and mo cap them and put them in the game.

I believe EA for NHL 07 used Alex Auld for their Mo Cap...time to update the styles/animations. Some of them are hideous. I hate how I aim glove side and think its a great shot then the goalie does that stupid butterfly glove animation where he makes it look like its nothing and it goes right into the glove.