Brent Barry rips analytics detractors “some people need to get out of their cave.”

[EddieS2010]

Brent Barry “Talent, you’ll always need talent, but to think that they don’t use the numbers to benefit their team and use that as a tool to be better, you gotta get out of that cave.”

Full Story: http://clnsradio.com/boston-celtics-...ive-disservice

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Brent Barry rips analytics detractors “some people need to get out of their cave.

Looking forward to Barkley's rebuttal without "he never played the game" to fall back on....

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Brent Barry rips analytics detractors “some people need to get out of their cave.

This whole thing is just funny to me.

One side basically saying " Screw you and your Calculator" and the other side saying "You're not that good and I can use my calculator to prove it".

Obviously it's not that black/white but it's still funny to read the arguments from both sides.

[Dice]

Re: Brent Barry rips analytics detractors “some people need to get out of their cave.

This argument goes beyond basketball. Advanced metrics is being used, and argued against, in all the major sports.

[SteelersFreak]

Re: Brent Barry rips analytics detractors “some people need to get out of their cave.

This argument goes beyond basketball. Advanced metrics is being used, and argued against, in all the major sports.

Yup, its a comparably big debate in soccer. I don't think its quite as big of a deal in football because I don't think there's quite as much contention about it in football. And of course we all know how big it is (although moreso was at this point) in baseball.

[LingeringRegime]

Re: Brent Barry rips analytics detractors “some people need to get out of their cave.

Most small market teams don't have much of a choice not to use analytics.

MKG, was an analytics pick and he certainly does much more than indicated on the box score.

At the end of the day,I think analytics can coexist with other methods of evaluating talent.

It's not either or.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Brent Barry rips analytics detractors “some people need to get out of their cave.

Why do you say most small market teams don't have much of a choice?

[LingeringRegime]

Re: Brent Barry rips analytics detractors “some people need to get out of their cave.

Why do you say most small market teams don't have much of a choice?

Because most "Superstars" don't want to go play in a small market. See Charlotte as an example, the biggest "star" we have landed through FA is Al Jefferson. We could never get a marquis player, our only chance is to lucky in the draft or use analytics to find pieces that will thrive in Clifford's system.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Brent Barry rips analytics detractors “some people need to get out of their c...

Because most "Superstars" don't want to go play in a small market. See Charlotte as an example, the biggest "star" we have landed through FA is Al Jefferson. We could never get a marquis player, our only chance is to lucky in the draft or use analytics to find pieces that will thrive in Clifford's system.

To be fair, what reasons did FAs to want to go to Charlotte? Even prior to Clifford going there? And how many "Superstars" actually hit the open market? Like 2-3 every years if that?

I mean what's been the bigger issue: Lack of advanced stats that the team didn't want to adapt too or lack of player development/chemistry/constant coaching change?

But to say most small market teams have no choice not to use it, ehh I don't know if it's that black/white.

[jeebs9]

Re: Brent Barry rips analytics detractors “some people need to get out of their c...

Try not to get deep into stats talk. Especially with basketball. Some people who never played organized basketball think stats are the end of all worlds. There is a guy in the 2k forums who is down right a ******* about ratings (Rashidi). He throws stats and numbers out there. And believes those are the facts. I think they should be used as a guide or helper. But not the final word.

[Ufsports2]

Re: Brent Barry rips analytics detractors “some people need to get out of their cave.

I think the biggest problem with solely looking at stats is that certain stats transfix you and there's no stat for leadership or maturity. Also, despite having better stats, there is a reason Russell has more rings than Wilt Chamberlain.

[OkayC]

Re: Brent Barry rips analytics detractors “some people need to get out of their cave.

my problem with the argument is its too onesided. Its either see stats as the end all be all, or no stat means anything, parties that are going at it. fact is stat are a tool, just like scouting or watching film, they help. To rely on them is a recipe for disaster and to not use them at all imo is ignorance. The fact does remain that pretty much all nba teams(and probably all sports teams) use them to some degree or another, and to act as if there meaningless(barkely) really shows lack of knowledge on the subject.

[CMH]

Re: Brent Barry rips analytics detractors “some people need to get out of their cave.

Also, despite having better stats, there is a reason Russell has more rings than Wilt Chamberlain.

The thing is - and people continuously ignore this - the reasons you say Russell is better than Chamberlain is because of analytics.

Name the reason and analytics is behind that. You just called it something different in the past, or are still calling it something different today. But that's what analytics is doing. It's taking those things and trying to understand them in a quantifiable way.

This is the issue I have with the detractors. They still don't actually even understand analytics. Don't attack something you don't understand. It's like people that argued against the idea of the world being round. They were either defending a book or their own preconceived opinions that weren't based on understanding science.

If you don't want to take the time to read about analytics and understand what it is it's trying to quantify, you shouldn't be commenting on what you think it's trying to quantify.

Those things that made Russell great are the type of things analytics are trying to understand so it's more readily recognizable in a player that either hasn't displayed that ability yet (maybe because he doesn't know how) or is too inexperienced to have shown it.

Analytics isn't just shoot threes from the corner or this guy likes to drive to the right.

Finally, a lot of fans also don't realize that one of the factors in the Dallas Mavericks winning their championship is based on one of the most ignored uses of analytics in the sport: the hiring of Rick Carlisle. Read about it.

[ProfessaPackMan]

Re: Brent Barry rips analytics detractors “some people need to get out of their cave.

Carlisle has been credited properly for that, has he not?

[JerzeyReign]

Re: Brent Barry rips analytics detractors “some people need to get out of their cave.

Analytics has caused a member of the Sixers to be traded every 36 hours. I'm not a fan.

Is anyone on this forum knowledgeable with the idea behind it? What stats are they looking at?