Coach Run/Pass Tendencies

[Art01]

I have run an experiment which confirms, to my satisfaction, that the Offense Run/Pass Tendency adjustment in the "Edit Coach" option is reversed.

My question is: Are the Defense Run/Pass Tendencies also reversed?

[jello1717]

Re: Coach Run/Pass Tendencies

I have run an experiment which confirms, to my satisfaction, that the Offense Run/Pass Tendency adjustment in the "Edit Coach" option is reversed.

My question is: Are the Defense Run/Pass Tendencies also reversed?

The run/pass slider works correctly (I'm 99% sure and I've played this game a LOT). I think that you (like more than a few others) are simply reading the slider wrong.

I think people are somehow getting confused by the numbers. They see a run/pass slider that says 25/75 and think that means 25% run/75% pass.



If that's what you think it means then you're just reading it wrong. You need to look at the slider itself. The white part is mostly to the left (run). Also, you need to push left (towards run) on the D-pad in order to get the slider there. Maybe it'd be easier to envision the slider like this:

run XXX_________ pass

instead.

Whichever side the slider is on is the dominant side of their offense. The numbers simply give you a rough estimate of the percentages.

I can absolutely say that a team with a slider as shown above will run the ball the vast majority of the time (because the slider is moved way over towards the run side).

Also a coach with a slider like this:



will pass the vast majority of the time because the slider is moved way over to the pass side.

This absolutely works as intended.

[ZN30]

Re: Coach Run/Pass Tendencies

Spoiler

The run/pass slider works correctly (I'm 99% sure
and I've played this game a LOT). I think that you (like more than a few
others) are simply reading the slider wrong.





I think people are somehow getting confused by the numbers. They see a
run/pass slider that says 25/75 and think that means 25% run/75% pass.











If that's what you think it means then you're just reading it wrong. You need
to look at the slider itself. The white part is mostly to the left (run). Also,
you need to push left (towards run) on the D-pad in order to get the slider
there. Maybe it'd be easier to envision the slider like this:





run XXX_________ pass





instead.





Whichever side the slider is on is the dominant side of their offense. The
numbers simply give you a rough estimate of the percentages.





I can absolutely say that a team with a slider as shown above will run the
ball the vast majority of the time (because the slider is moved way over towards
the run side).





Also a coach with a slider like this:











will pass the vast majority of the time because the slider is moved way over
to the pass side.





This absolutely works as intended.

Is this consistent with the Aggressive/Conservative scale? I was under the impression that 75% on Aggressive/Conservative meant more aggressive. If this is the case, there is some obvious confusing between the way the two scales operate.

[jyod21]

Re: Coach Run/Pass Tendencies

Spoiler

Is this consistent with the Aggressive/Conservative scale? I was under the impression that 75% on Aggressive/Conservative meant more aggressive. If this is the case, there is some obvious confusing between the way the two scales operate.

Yes. Picture it like the "Aggressive/Conservative" Title is above the slider instead of beside it. Moving the bar left would make you more aggressive, moving it right would make you more conservative. Same with the pass/run tendencies.

[ZN30]

Re: Coach Run/Pass Tendencies

Yes. Picture it like the "Aggressive/Conservative" Title is above the slider instead of beside it. Moving the bar left would make you more aggressive, moving it right would make you more conservative. Same with the pass/run tendencies.

Thanks for the clarification. I guess my coach has been far moe conservative than I imagined in simulated games.

What aggressiveness level do most of you set your coach to? And what would happen if I took it 20-30 on the scale?

[Skulletor]

Re: Coach Run/Pass Tendencies

the UI is just counterintuitive, I always thought my coach was aggressive and it turned out he was just conservative because I had a 40-60 split


that said i'd be interested if anyone else sees QBs leading the nation in rushing years into their dynasty. a HB hasn't sniffed the Heisman in years, and wondering what can be tuned to fix this

[jello1717]

Re: Coach Run/Pass Tendencies

that said i'd be interested if anyone else sees QBs leading the nation in rushing years into their dynasty. a HB hasn't sniffed the Heisman in years, and wondering what can be tuned to fix this

Not me. I've never seen a QB lead the nation in rushing. I checked my last completed season (2028) and the top 10 rushers are HBs w/ 1370-1844 rushing yards.
There were only 3 QBs in the top 25 rushers in the nation.

That said, I've only had 3 HBs win the Heisman in 16 years of my current dynasty. It's not surprising though because QBs rush and pass while HBs typically only rush (rarely do they get a lot of receiving yards).

Of course, in real life, 13 of the last 14 Heismans have gone to QBs, so in EA's game it's pretty accurate.

[jbrew2411]

Re: Coach Run/Pass Tendencies

I will second Jello. I am in the 2027 season and I have not once seen a QB lead the nation in rushing. I have also noticed a nice mix of QBs and HBs winning the Heisman. The QBs that have won all seem to throw from 4000+ yards and 40tds+, while the HBs all come from teams that run some type of option. Looking at those teams in year 2027 and the QBs are all 3rd or lower on the team in rushing much less leading the nation.

[Art01]

Re: Coach Run/Pass Tendencies

In my original post in this thread, I stated that I believe that the Offense and Defense Coach Tendencies are reversed. I do not intend to debate my conclusion, but I will explain how I arrived at this decision - and I will offer actual test game data to support my findings.

I am using my ratings-modified version of Buffeyes 2014 Season Roster for this analysis.

When I look at the Roster in the Generic Editor, there is a COCH Tab, which contains many different columns of data related to Coaches. One of these columns is labeled "COTR". Numbers in this column match the numbers found under the PASS side of the Offense Coach Tendency when viewed within the game.

I have interpreted this “COTR” column header to mean "Coach Offense Tendency Run". Therefore, I decided that the numbers in this column should match the numbers found under the “RUN” side of the Offense Coach Tendency. So, using the Export/Import feature of the Generic Editor, I reversed the RUN/PASS numbers for all coaches for all teams by putting the RUN numbers in the COTR column. I then imported this modified COCH data back into the Roster.

Examples:

1: The original in-game “Run Offense/Pass Offense” for Alabama HC Nick Saban read from left to right; "35 ------- 65". After data reversal, the data reads from left to right; "65 ------- 35".

2: The original in-game “Run Offense/Pass Offense” for Air Force HC Troy Calhoun read from left to right “20 ----- 80”. After data reversal, the data now reads from left to right “80 ------ 20”.

I have played 5 different test games with the new data settings. All games were CPU-CPU, 5 minute quarters, User and CPU Difficulty set to Heisman. After the games were completed, I recorded the game statistics. Teams were chosen for these games to observe how the software handled Run/Pass play calling. Results of these games are attached as an Excel file to this post.

Note in particular, the WSU/SMU (Heavy Pass) and Air Force/Army (Heavy Run) games.

[jello1717]

Re: Coach Run/Pass Tendencies

In my original post in this thread, I stated that I believe that the Offense and Defense Coach Tendencies are reversed. I do not intend to debate my conclusion, but I will explain how I arrived at this decision - and I will offer actual test game data to support my findings.

I am using my ratings-modified version of Buffeyes 2014 Season Roster for this analysis.

When I look at the Roster in the Generic Editor, there is a COCH Tab, which contains many different columns of data related to Coaches. One of these columns is labeled "COTR". Numbers in this column match the numbers found under the PASS side of the Offense Coach Tendency when viewed within the game.

I have interpreted this “COTR” column header to mean "Coach Offense Tendency Run". Therefore, I decided that the numbers in this column should match the numbers found under the “RUN” side of the Offense Coach Tendency. So, using the Export/Import feature of the Generic Editor, I reversed the RUN/PASS numbers for all coaches for all teams by putting the RUN numbers in the COTR column. I then imported this modified COCH data back into the Roster.

Examples:

1: The original in-game “Run Offense/Pass Offense” for Alabama HC Nick Saban read from left to right; "35 ------- 65". After data reversal, the data reads from left to right; "65 ------- 35".

2: The original in-game “Run Offense/Pass Offense” for Air Force HC Troy Calhoun read from left to right “20 ----- 80”. After data reversal, the data now reads from left to right “80 ------ 20”.

I have played 5 different test games with the new data settings. All games were CPU-CPU, 5 minute quarters, User and CPU Difficulty set to Heisman. After the games were completed, I recorded the game statistics. Teams were chosen for these games to observe how the software handled Run/Pass play calling. Results of these games are attached as an Excel file to this post.

Note in particular, the WSU/SMU (Heavy Pass) and Air Force/Army (Heavy Run) games.

It's fine if you don't play on debating, but if you're going to post false conclusions, then I'm going to refute.

I'll state again the way the run/pass slider works. If you push it towards the left it'll make the team more run heavy. This will show up like this:

Spoiler

If you move the slider towards the right the team will be more pass heavy and the slider will look like this:

Spoiler

This ABSOLUTELY works w/ the game's sim engine.
Here are the nation's rushing leaders at the end of 2027:

Spoiler

Of these teams the following have a 30/70 ratio (which is very run heavy):

• Navy
• Georgia Tech
• Michigan
• Virginia Tech (I'm surprised by how many passing yards they have)
• Idaho
• Tennessee

Colorado's ratio is 35/65. All of the 30/70 teams above have at least in the neighborhood of twice as many rushing yards as passing. Therefore, the sim engine most definitely handles rush heavy ratios correctly.

Below are the nation's passing leaders:

Spoiler

and here are their ratios:

• ASU: 65/35
• ECU: 60/40
• MTSU: 60/40
• BSU: 52/48 (surprisingly close to 50/50)
• Baylor: 55/45
• Kansas: 65/35
• Army: 80/20

So now you can see that the sim engine definitely correctly uses pass heavy ratios.

As for in game ratios, I only have the games I played myself from this season. Here's the Dook game w/ their 65/35 pass heavy ratio:

Spoiler

where they ran 20 times and passed 42 times.

Now, here is the GT game with their 30/70 ratio.

Spoiler

Here they ran the ball 35 times and only passed 15.

Both of these games are examples of where the gameplay engine also uses the correct run/pass ratios.

[Skulletor]

Re: Coach Run/Pass Tendencies

the data stored in the DB is a representation of the UI.


in my dynasty team I see a run heavy air force option team with a COTR value of 15. This doesn't mean it runs 15% of the team, in fact it's an inverse operation. it's a 100-X which is the real value the game uses


so 15/85 means


100-15/100-85=85% run/15% pass
like I said completely unintuitive

[rollinphat]

Re: Coach Run/Pass Tendencies

Just forget the numbers. Act like they aren't there at all and then look at the graph.

Fill the bar in the direction of what you want the team to do and ignore what the numbers on either side show you.

[Art01]

Re: Coach Run/Pass Tendencies

I believe that everyone may be correct. When I used the Editor to reverse the COTR data, I simply loaded this reversed data back into the game. I did not make any changes to the Run Offense/Pass Offense in-game sliders. The effect of my COTR change has been to simply reverse the presentation of the Run and Pass percentages. Under my adjustment, the Run percentage is now depicted on the left side of the Slider and the Pass percentage is depicted on the right side of the Slider.

So, when I click on the right side button, I see the width of the White Slider line increase and I see the Run percentage number on the left side increase. I believe this is consistent with the comments presented by both Jello1717 and Skullator, except that in my setup, I see the left side percentage increase as I increase the Run Tendency. Conversely, if I click on the left button, I see the width of the White Slider decrease and the right-side number increase accordingly, indicating an increased Pass Tendency.

To me, this presentation is more logical and clearer than the original presentation, so I intend to leave my game setup in this manner.

The key point is that I agree that increasing the width of the White Slider indicates increased Run Tendency and decreasing the White Slider width indicates an increase in Pass Tendency.

So long as players understand what is happening when they increase or decrease the width of the White Slider, they will be making the adjustments they expect to be making.

[ncaa13]

Re: Coach Run/Pass Tendencies

Thread Starter is correct rest of you, got that placebo. Per Ncaa 12 EA developer about the sliders:
"Let’s take a look at the editable coach Offensive and Defensive Styles. While Offensive & Defensive Playbooks are self-explanatory, NCAA Football designer Jordan Peterson has been kind enough to explain in greater detail what the Run/Pass, Aggressive/Conservative, and Sub Frequency sliders mean so you can edit coaches the way you want to enhance your Dynasty experience.

Offensive Style
Offensive Playbook: Sets the offensive playbook. Custom playbooks are available as an option.
Run Offense/Pass Offense: This sets whether you Run or Pass more often when simming the game. If it’s 33/67, you would run 33% of the time and Pass 67%. It is a weighting on playcall during sim.
Aggressive/Conservative: CPU Playcall - Some examples include whether to accept a penalty after a successful field goal attempt, when to use timeouts and/or go no-huddle when time is running down, whether to go for 1pt or 2pts after a TD, and whether or not to go for it on 4th down. It also determines how aggressive/conservative a team will be on 4th down situation. Simulations - This impacts whether to go for a long pass, whether to run or pass in the redzone, and whether a team settles for a FG or goes for it on 4th down.
Sub Frequency: How fatigued a player has to be before they will be subbed out and how often you sub during sims.


Defensive Style
Defensive Playbook: Set the defensive playbook. Custom playbooks are available as an option.
Defend Run/Defend Pass: Likelihood to defend either the run or the pass.
Aggressive/Conservative: Affects Simulations Only - This affects the chance of certain penalties being called, increases the offenses fumble chance, decreases the offense’s chance to find a hole, but increase the offenses chance to have a breakaway run for more yardage when they do. Aggressive defense will give up more completions but will get more INTs.
Sub Frequency: How fatigued a player has to be before they will be subbed out and how often you sub during sims."

It is a precentage (%).You don't place the bar on top and tell yourself its running more. The bigger precentage side is what will happen more. Another HUGE factor not mentioned it the actual PLAYBOOK. If you play alot like me then you know Playbooks dictate run/pass as well as the slider. WSU slider shows a bigger precentage to run but their playbook "air raid" means the WILL pass. Air Force slider show bigger precentage of pass but the option playbook WILL make them run. Its a delicate balance.

[jello1717]

Re: Coach Run/Pass Tendencies

Thread Starter is correct rest of you, got that placebo.

It's not a placebo. I've seen ENTIRELY too much data (over 50 dynasty seasons of NCAA '14) to back up my knowledge of the run/pass slider. If the test season I just ran and talk about below doesn't convince you, then I don't know what would.

Run Offense/Pass Offense: This sets whether you Run or Pass more often when simming the game. If it’s 33/67, you would run 33% of the time and Pass 67%.

I'm 99% certain that this is incorrect for NCAA '14 . You're quoting from NCAA '12 so maybe things changed or maybe he was simply wrong. Regardless of which it is, this is not correct for NCAA '14.

Your theory about the playbooks also affecting the ratios intrigued me as it could explain what I'm seeing as much as the slider ratio would. So I ran this test:

I took 2 passing teams/PBs (Wazzu, SMU), kept their passing playbooks and moved their slider as far over towards what I know to be rushing as it would go (15/85, which is the opposite of what the OP and you are saying).

I took 2 rushing teams/PBs (Air Force, Army), kept their rushing PBs and moved their slider as far towards what I know to be passing as it would go (85/15, which again is the opposite direction of what you and the OP say).

So, to summarize the settings:

Wazzu and SMU have extremely pass heavy playbooks, but their ratios are as far as they can go towards run (I say, pass you say).
Air Force and Army have extremely run heavy playbooks, but their ratios are as far as they can go towards pass (I say, run you say).

I then simmed a season and here are the results:
Washington St ranked #3 in the COUNTRY in rushing w/ 2,699 rushing yards compared to 1,738 passing yards.
SMU ranked #5 in the country in rushing w/ 2,626 rushing yards compared to just 1,571 passing yards.

Both Air Force and Army have crappy passers so their total # of passing yards were only good for top 20, but their ratios are unarguable.
Air Force had 3,068 passing yards to just 975 rushing yards. Air Force ranked 5th WORST in the COUNTRY for rushing yards w/ their pass heavy ratio.
Army had 2,985 passing yards compared to just 795 rushing yards! Army finished 3rd WORST in the country in rushing yards w/ their pass heavy ratio.

This is obviously not a placebo. The results of this season can lead to only 1 conclusion:
Regardless of playbook type, moving the run/pass slider to the left (resulting in a number like 15/85) means more rushing while moving the slider to the right (resulting in a number like 85/15) means more passing.