Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

[elgreazy1]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

Definitely homer status here, but Witten is by far the most complete TE of this last decade+ and a sure 1st ballot inductee.

His highlight reals aren't anything to inspire the younger generation but if any player wants to be a HOF'er they should look to him as the prototype: immaculate hands, receiver-like route running skills, uses shiftiness not athleticism to get open, consistently makes the impossible 3rd down conversion, takes on premier pass rushers with ferocity, fearlessly goes after balls over the middle yet doesn't take the unnecessary punishing hits, and leads without ego.

Yes, he doesn't have the athletic intangibles of a Gates/Graham or coolness factor of a Gronkowski but the man has been consistent to a fault. He's outlasted and out-performed nearly every TE in the league from Gates, to Shockey (highly touted as the "next big thing"), etc. Before it's all said and done, he'll probably eclipse Tony Gonzales for all-time receptions as a TE. Time will tell if any of the young stud TEs can outlast him.

[bkrich83]

Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

Definitely homer status here, but Witten is by far the most complete TE of this last decade+ and a sure 1st ballot inductee.

His highlight reals aren't anything to inspire the younger generation but if any player wants to be a HOF'er they should look to him as the prototype: immaculate hands, receiver-like route running skills, uses shiftiness not athleticism to get open, consistently makes the impossible 3rd down conversion, takes on premier pass rushers with ferocity, fearlessly goes after balls over the middle yet doesn't take the unnecessary punishing hits, and leads without ego.

Yes, he doesn't have the athletic intangibles of a Gates/Graham or coolness factor of a Gronkowski but the man has been consistent to a fault. He's outlasted and out-performed nearly every TE in the league from Gates, to Shockey (highly touted as the "next big thing"), etc. Before it's all said and done, he'll probably eclipse Tony Gonzales for all-time receptions as a TE. Time will tell if any of the young stud TEs can outlast him.

Gates has a lot more TDs a much higher ypc and makes plays that Witten simply isn't capable of. Witten has been more durable and has more career receptions but that is where the comparison ends. First ballot for Witten? Unlikely. He's not a game changer not did he redefine the position ala Gates and Gonzales.

When it comes to Gonzalez there's no comparison Witten is not even in the same league.

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[ggsimmonds]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

I get that, I've never thought he was particularly good after the catch.


However in 12 seasons he missed one game, he has 940+ receptions and has been outstanding blocker. He's eclipsed 1,000 yards 4 times, has 57 TD's and an 11 YPC average. I think he has to go .

I'll still take Antonio Gates over Witten any day of the week.

Oh don't misunderstand, I'm not disputing his HOF credentials.
He is worthy.

I just hate him.

[The15thunter]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

willis - yes
lynch - no
witten - yes
briggs - no

[slickdtc]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

Witten, Gates, Gonzalez all in. Gonzalez easily, a little pushback against Gates and Witten. Gates had the higher peaks but Witten was just a notch below and has done it so consistently.

I think Gronk will make it as well as Graham barring them losing significant time to injuries considering it's already happened to both. They're the "next" wave of Gates/Witten.

I think I already said so but I'd put Willis in the HOF on a down year, which will be tough because there's probably not many down years. It's purely based on longevity, but even for just the 7 years he's been insanely good. He embodied everything you want in a LB. Simply great. Just speaking of him this way, it's kind of a sign he deserves to be in the HOF. To have that "short" of a career and still be seriously considered speaks volumes.

[KG]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

I actually think if Marshawn has 2 more productive years and the Seahawks make a push for the SB he should get in. Bettis will probably finish with 1-2k more yards but Marshawn's playoff #'s already far exceed Jerome's. He's got a better YPC, a much better receiver, and notable playoff performances.

[wwharton]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

I actually think if Marshawn has 2 more productive years and the Seahawks make a push for the SB he should get in. Bettis will probably finish with 1-2k more yards but Marshawn's playoff #'s already far exceed Jerome's. He's got a better YPC, a much better receiver, and notable playoff performances.

But Bettis was borderline so comparing to him probably isn't the best measure. Especially since you'd have to then start considering the stuff we hate is a factor, like Bettis being a media darling and Lynch "here just so I don't get fined."

[KG]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

But Bettis was borderline so comparing to him probably isn't the best measure. Especially since you'd have to then start considering the stuff we hate is a factor, like Bettis being a media darling and Lynch "here just so I don't get fined."

Why not though (apart from the 2nd part of your comment)? IF (i know, assumptions assumptions) Marshawn has another 2 years of consistent production on a team that is one of the strongest teams in the NFC, yet alone entire league, and puts up good postseason #'s he will be in that "fringe" territory but I can see the 2nd part of your comment making it tough for him.

[wwharton]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

Why not though (apart from the 2nd part of your comment)? IF (i know, assumptions assumptions) Marshawn has another 2 years of consistent production on a team that is one of the strongest teams in the NFC, yet alone entire league, and puts up good postseason #'s he will be in that "fringe" territory but I can see the 2nd part of your comment making it tough for him.

I don't think it makes sense to ever compare "fringe" players. If he's on the bubble then he has a chance to get in but the odds are still that he doesn't (especially talking about the NFL HOF). Just bc Bettis beat those odds doesn't mean anyone else will. Now if his resume compares to HOF locks, then there'd be a case. Some may argue that your scenario actually puts him above Bettis... don't know that I'd argue against that either. But if he's just knocking on the door, the fact that they opened it for Bettis wouldn't help his case.

[55]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

But Bettis was borderline so comparing to him probably isn't the best measure. Especially since you'd have to then start considering the stuff we hate is a factor, like Bettis being a media darling and Lynch "here just so I don't get fined."

Bettis was actually below borderline.

Nice guy with a cutesy little nickname for all the kiddies, sure.

On the field though, hardly above replacement level other than 1-2 solid seasons. He just benefitted by playing on a team with a run first philosophy for a long time and was extremely lucky with injuries.

[KG]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

I don't think it makes sense to ever compare "fringe" players. If he's on the bubble then he has a chance to get in but the odds are still that he doesn't (especially talking about the NFL HOF). Just bc Bettis beat those odds doesn't mean anyone else will. Now if his resume compares to HOF locks, then there'd be a case. Some may argue that your scenario actually puts him above Bettis... don't know that I'd argue against that either. But if he's just knocking on the door, the fact that they opened it for Bettis wouldn't help his case.

How can you not compare fringe players? They're all competing to get in and one getting in def hurts the chances of someone else at the same position getting the nod. We're entering the territory where most of us have actually seen someone's entire career including college so we know these guys in & out and can measure their impact. Marshawn's name doesn't immediately ring out right when I think of HOF running backs but who's to say that with a few more big years (individually & as a team) that it won't.

I agree with 55 in that I rate him higher than Bettis but I understand the politics of the HOF.

[rangerrick012]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

Bettis was actually below borderline.

Nice guy with a cutesy little nickname for all the kiddies, sure.

On the field though, hardly above replacement level other than 1-2 solid seasons. He just benefitted by playing on a team with a run first philosophy for a long time and was extremely lucky with injuries.

You're marginalizing Bettis quite a bit with this assessment. Saying he was extremely lucky with injuries - I thought that was called durability?

4th most carries of all time, 8 seasons of 1000+ yds, 4 seasons of 1300+ yards, 9 seasons of 7+ TDs. And its not like Mike Tomczak, Kordell, or Tommy Maddox were putting that much fear into teams by passing the ball.

[55]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

You're marginalizing Bettis quite a bit with this assessment. Saying he was extremely lucky with injuries - I thought that was called durability?

4th most carries of all time, 8 seasons of 1000+ yds, 4 seasons of 1300+ yards, 9 seasons of 7+ TDs. And its not like Mike Tomczak, Kordell, or Tommy Maddox were putting that much fear into teams by passing the ball.

1997 was his one and only "great" year. That's it.

He also failed to average 4 yards per carry in 7 of his last 8 seasons and in 9 of his entire 13. His career yards per carry is also under 4 which is mediocre as hell. He was also a pretty lousy receiver out of the backfield and he left a lot to be desired in pass protection for a guy his size. He was just an accumulator who stayed healthy until his last few years. Nothing more, nothing less.

[rangerrick012]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

1997 was his one and only "great" year. That's it.

He also failed to average 4 yards per carry in 7 of his last 8 seasons and in 9 of his entire 13. His career yards per carry is also under 4 which is mediocre as hell. He was also a pretty lousy receiver out of the backfield and he left a lot to be desired in pass protection for a guy his size. He was just an accumulator who stayed healthy until his last few years. Nothing more, nothing less.

His career ypc went down bc of his later years when he was primary a goal line back.

1993 - 1429 yds, 7 TDs, 4.9 ypc
1996 - 1431 yds, 11 TDs, 4.5 ypc
1997 - 1665 yds, 7 TDs, 4.4 ypc
2000 - 1341 yds, 8 TDs, 3.8 ypc

I'd call all of those good to great years.

But I'm not really big on stats when it comes to HOF. When I watched Bettis, the way he played, he looked like one of the best and WAS one of the best RB of his era. Again you try to discredit his numbers by calling him an accumulator. So instead of 'durable' he was 'lucky with injuries' and instead of longevity he was an 'accumulator'.

As if he was putting up worthless numbers on losing teams. He was a workhorse back on a team where for most parts he had to be THE guy on offense...it's not like that team was winning because of Kordell or any of the receivers they had (before Hines Ward and Plax came around).

[redsox4evur]

Re: Is (Insert Player Here) A Hall of Famer?

He was also a pretty lousy receiver out of the backfield and he left a lot to be desired in pass protection for a guy his size. He was just an accumulator who stayed healthy until his last few years. Nothing more, nothing less.

During his time there weren't really that many guys who were catching the ball out of the backfield. The only one I can think of is Marshall Faulk. There were more power running backs during his time then guys who catching the ball. It was when Bettis started to get older that the receiving back started to become popular. Also his receiving stats are comparable to Barry Sanders and Emmitt Smith. Who each played around the same time as him. Bettis was around 200 yards per season. And Sanders and Smith had like 300-350 per season receiving.