NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

[Lord Bonium]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

If they do fix the defense in 2k16 or 17 i hope they'll only fix if for offline modes. Otherwise they're just rewarding off ball defenders again. If they can't have separate sets of sliders, or whatever it is that's needed, for on/offline then i honestly hope they leave the defense as bad as it is.

This is just my view as an online myteam player of course --> i don't want to be guarded by a team of cpu controlled 90+ ovr players that have flawless defensive ai.

[smuhead]

Perfect releases should never go in 99-100% of the time. Unrealistic. Same applies for free throws. Perfect releases should indicate that you are shooting at your players capability.

Also If your going to implement a new shooting system, make sure you give detailed information about how it works.
Example: There's a rhythm icon option in the gameplay options menu, that I still don't know where it is in the game. Everything doesn't have to be a secret. Especially when I pay money to enjoy a game I can't shoot on.
Last, please due away with the hot zones. Or letting people know where they are. I'm sick seeing people running to shoot from the same spot because they know they have a higher sucess rate there. Unrealistic.
But with the way this shooting system is, I don't blame them.

[stillfeelme]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

I'm not sure how I feel about the patch.

On the one hand, I shouldn't play hof sim all year and get two green releases for over a 100, 12 minute quarter games and hardly hit anything even in practice mode with no defense. (I'm using the Pacers full time).

On the other hand, guys that get good shots shouldn't be penalized "just because" shooting percentages need to be realistic.

Maybe the real problem here is that we are expecting the CPU engine to keep percentages low when it should be defense that causes low field goal percentage instead.

I think we are really focusing on the wrong problem.

Shooting feels fine to me. Defense though, does not.

Coach I agree with some of that but not all of it.

If you create a system where perfect release equals 100%, then stick skills play a more bigger role than actual real life %'s. Basically the original post demonstrated that the game becomes unrealistic because a skilled user is able to make a player shoot much better if they are able to time their shot. I already realized this means your whole defensive strategy changes because you now have to defend non-shooters much differently because their shot is not glitched.

Take a look at these Pacers numbers. The Pacers as a team shoot 42% when wide open occording to SportsVU and 35% when contested tight. So as a team they only are better 6.7% when open. I think they did this kind of study last year and it showed that the NBA as a whole only shoots 5% better on average when open.

The CPU engine should be about as close you can to what you have shown, which is why I think they need to seriously look at getting rid of perfect success equals 99% success. They need individual ratings for open and when contested. All of this was found on NBA.com. This is looking at jumpers 10 feet or greater.

[Caelumfang]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

Perfect releases should never go in 99-100% of the time. Unrealistic. Same applies for free throws. Perfect releases should indicate that you are shooting at your players capability.

Also If your going to implement a new shooting system, make sure you give detailed information about how it works.
Example: There's a rhythm icon option in the gameplay options menu, that I still don't know where it is in the game. Everything doesn't have to be a secret. Especially when I pay money to enjoy a game I can't shoot on.
Last, please due away with the hot zones. Or letting people know where they are. I'm sick seeing people running to shoot from the same spot because they know they have a higher sucess rate there. Unrealistic.
But with the way this shooting system is, I don't blame them.

Lol, you'd hate playing against me in the Rec. My player has hot zones everywhere on the court, so I'd be able to pull from anywhere.

[Caelumfang]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

Coach I agree with some of that but not all of it.

If you create a system where perfect release equals 100%, then stick skills play a more bigger role than actual real life %'s. Basically the original post demonstrated that the game becomes unrealistic because a skilled user is able to make a player shoot much better if they are able to time their shot. I already realized this means your whole defensive strategy changes because you now have to defend non-shooters much differently because their shot is not glitched.

Take a look at these Pacers numbers. The Pacers as a team shoot 42% when wide open occording to SportsVU and 35% when contested tight. So as a team they only are better 6.7% when open. I think they did this kind of study last year and it showed that the NBA as a whole only shoots 5% better on average when open.

The CPU engine should be about as close you can to what you have shown, which is why I think they need to seriously look at getting rid of perfect success equals 99% success. They need individual ratings for open and when contested. All of this was found on NBA.com. This is looking at jumpers 10 feet or greater.

Do you REALLY want people shooting only 6.7% (or anything remotely close to that number) worse when contested? Think about that for a second.

[stillfeelme]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

Do you REALLY want people shooting only 6.7% (or anything remotely close to that number) worse when contested? Think about that for a second.

I didn't say that that but that is the actual team overall. What I said is there are certain players who should not receive a open shot bonus because uhh... they don't shoot well whether they are open or contested. What I have said is they need a contested shot rating and an open shot rating and the perfect release should not be automatic 99% going in. I said all of this last year

The whole league right now only shoots 5.8% better when wide open 6ft+ as a whole compared to being contested tight. Yeah there are players that shoot better or who % goes way up when open but it is not across the board.

This patch now means you have to guard bad shooters because not only can they get "green" perfects they also received an open bonus that they probably don't even show in real life. Here is a look at just some of the All-Star 3pt shooters some of the best of the best shooters in the league.

[Nevertheles109]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

I didn't say that that but that is the actual team overall. What I said is there are certain players who should not receive a open shot bonus because uhh... they don't shoot well whether they are open or contested. What I have said is they need a contested shot rating and an open shot rating and the perfect release should not be automatic 99% going in. I said all of this last year

The whole league right now only shoots 5.8% better when wide open 6ft+ as a whole compared to being contested tight. Yeah there are players that shoot better or who % goes way up when open but it is not across the board.

This patch now means you have to guard bad shooters because not only can they get "green" perfects they also received an open bonus that they probably don't even show in real life. Here is a look at just some of the All-Star 3pt shooters some of the best of the best shooters in the league.

Great Stats. You are correct; it is about 5-8% difference on average between wide and open and tightly contested. The wide open percentage is too high at the moment.

In my opinion, the only thing they should have adjusted this patch was getting green releases. That issue was resolved, which, in turn, solved the shooting problem. Nevertheless, it seems like the created a new problem but over compensating what never was an issue in the first place.

The fg percentages were low on certain times (aka Pacers, Hawks) due to shooting mechanics being broken. This was an over correction.

[stillfeelme]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

Great Stats. You are correct; it is about 5-8% difference on average between wide and open and tightly contested. The wide open percentage is too high at the moment.

In my opinion, the only thing they should have adjusted this patch was getting green releases. That issue was resolved, which, in turn, solved the shooting problem. Nevertheless, it seems like the created a new problem but over compensating what never was an issue in the first place.

The fg percentages were low on certain times (aka Pacers, Hawks) due to shooting mechanics being broken. This was an over correction.

Yeah I am hoping we get one more patch for 2K15 just to fix the shooting. I hope they delay the XB1 just for that. There is no reason to release the XB1 with shooting as is IMO.

[bcruise]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

I didn't say that that but that is the actual team overall. What I said is there are certain players who should not receive a open shot bonus because uhh... they don't shoot well whether they are open or contested. What I have said is they need a contested shot rating and an open shot rating and the perfect release should not be automatic 99% going in. I said all of this last year

The whole league right now only shoots 5.8% better when wide open 6ft+ as a whole compared to being contested tight. Yeah there are players that shoot better or who % goes way up when open but it is not across the board.

This patch now means you have to guard bad shooters because not only can they get "green" perfects they also received an open bonus that they probably don't even show in real life. Here is a look at just some of the All-Star 3pt shooters some of the best of the best shooters in the league.

Just curious - where do you find info like this (breaking up shots into covered vs. wide open)? I love reading this kind of stuff.

[Sundown]

NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

Coach I agree with some of that but not all of it.



If you create a system where perfect release equals 100%, then stick skills play a more bigger role than actual real life %'s. Basically the original post demonstrated that the game becomes unrealistic because a skilled user is able to make a player shoot much better if they are able to time their shot. I already realized this means your whole defensive strategy changes because you now have to defend non-shooters much differently because their shot is not glitched.



Take a look at these Pacers numbers. The Pacers as a team shoot 42% when wide open occording to SportsVU and 35% when contested tight. So as a team they only are better 6.7% when open. I think they did this kind of study last year and it showed that the NBA as a whole only shoots 5% better on average when open.



The CPU engine should be about as close you can to what you have shown, which is why I think they need to seriously look at getting rid of perfect success equals 99% success. They need individual ratings for open and when contested. All of this was found on NBA.com. This is looking at jumpers 10 feet or greater.

Note that the wide open percentages are MUCH closer to the 45% we had before. Hardly a single player shoots 60% wide open. Not even Kyle Korver. But now average shooters hit at 60% like they were all time greats.

I have to say that the new adjustments sound to be pretty broken. The game played fine before and wide open shots did go in if you had some rhythm going. Now they don't appear to resemble statistical reality any longer. I'm not sure what the justification was for these changes.

[CaseIH]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

If they do fix the defense in 2k16 or 17 i hope they'll only fix if for offline modes. Otherwise they're just rewarding off ball defenders again. If they can't have separate sets of sliders, or whatever it is that's needed, for on/offline then i honestly hope they leave the defense as bad as it is.

This is just my view as an online myteam player of course --> i don't want to be guarded by a team of cpu controlled 90+ ovr players that have flawless defensive ai.

Its not really about the AI Defense now, its about the user not being able to defend because of poor control over the player. If they make it so a user has control over their player I would think most everyone would play on ball. I do think the AI could be improved as far as help D goes, and taking charges, but as far as on ball D the AI plays that well, and really that area probably don't need adjusted. Its the inability for the human to control his player on Defense because of sliding and lack of control, hell fro that matter offensive players slide to much too.


It was perfect before this last patch, but it seems even worse now with lack of control. I don't play online, but offline even trying to play offball is difficult because of poor control over players, so it don't matter much whether your on ball which I prefer, or offball you will feel like your on ice.




I cant imagine them fixing this although it is odd that the xbox 1 users still haven't got a patch yet, so I guess there ight be some hope cause they might be looking at it. Otherwise I think they would have released it for them by now.

[stillfeelme]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

NBA.com has everything from a stats standpoint man they upgraded that site. It doesn't have all the flashy advanced stats but they have everything to gain details about players and teams

Say search for a player go to their profile, then there is a tracking, on the right side, select shots dash board. The little gear tab actually brings up more options where you can break down by months all season totals.

http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201166/tracking/shots/

You should see tabs that show FG attempts when open and contested for jumpers > 10ft.

[mgrand15]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

Note that the wide open percentages are MUCH closer to the 45% we had before. Hardly a single player shoots 60% wide open. Not even Kyle Korver. But now average shooters hit at 60% like they were all time greats.

I have to say that the new adjustments sound to be pretty broken. The game played fine before and wide open shots did go in if you had some rhythm going. Now they don't appear to resemble statistical reality any longer. I'm not sure what the justification was for these changes.

That's the crazy part. He said a DECENT shooter hits 60% wide open. What's the number for Kyrie? What's the number for Curry? 80%? 90%?

You said it best. 60% on wide open shots is legendary. Even for guys that only shoot from mid-range.

I don't have any data but when I played the Cavs and Dubs online - Curry and Kyrie didn't miss anything. In the 4th, I had to start doubling Curry after he crossed half court to get the ball out of his hands. I NEVER had to do that. The only reason it slightly worked was because Klay Thompson was injured.

[stillfeelme]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

Note that the wide open percentages are MUCH closer to the 45% we had before. Hardly a single player shoots 60% wide open. Not even Kyle Korver. But now average shooters hit at 60% like they were all time greats.

I have to say that the new adjustments sound to be pretty broken. The game played fine before and wide open shots did go in if you had some rhythm going. Now they don't appear to resemble statistical reality any longer. I'm not sure what the justification was for these changes.

I agree they have to think about the changes before applying them. There are exceptions to the rule but you have to make sure you don't tip the scale one way then the game becomes unbalanced. It may be a way to correct this with sliders, real FG% but someone will still be left out if they can't use sliders to adjust online, myplayer game modes.

Beluba don't know if this is in but seriously need to get into 2K16's development open and contested ratings. STATS has it. NBA.com has. I hope they can fix 2K15 so I can play the game without using real fg%

[Lord Bonium]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

Its not really about the AI Defense now, its about the user not being able to defend because of poor control over the player. If they make it so a user has control over their player I would think most everyone would play on ball. I do think the AI could be improved as far as help D goes, and taking charges, but as far as on ball D the AI plays that well, and really that area probably don't need adjusted. Its the inability for the human to control his player on Defense because of sliding and lack of control, hell fro that matter offensive players slide to much too.


It was perfect before this last patch, but it seems even worse now with lack of control. I don't play online, but offline even trying to play offball is difficult because of poor control over players, so it don't matter much whether your on ball which I prefer, or offball you will feel like your on ice.




I cant imagine them fixing this although it is odd that the xbox 1 users still haven't got a patch yet, so I guess there ight be some hope cause they might be looking at it. Otherwise I think they would have released it for them by now.

Well, i don't really know what to say but i'm experiencing defense completely different. I feel like i'm in near total control, there's still the odd random animation to put me out of position but it rarely happens. To me it's the best it's been in years, i'm really able to lock people down right now. To me before the patch it was okay at best, right after the patch it was horrible and then suddenly (after i quit playing for a week or so) it was great, they must've made some tweaks at some point.

Maybe it's an offline thing. Even though i haven't really noticed this lack of control offline either. What i have noticed are that cpu players just go by you like you're not even there, that rarely happens online. There's generally a lot more bumping online as opposed to offline. Well, on defense anyway, obviously the cpu will bump you like crazy offline. But i've always just attributed that kind of thing to 2k's difficulty levels that might as well be called "levels of cheating cpu".

Help defense definitely needs improvement, i can agree with that much. Especially big men that come over to help and leave their assignments open under the basket even though the guy they intended to come help defend posed no threat at all.