Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

[Shady Mike]

Ok in all seriousness I had to google what came after secondary

But yea, the way the league is moving (more towards position-less basketball)I would love to be able to set guys like Evan Turner and Tyreke Evans as Primary Small Forward, Secondary shooting guard, and also have the ability for them to sub in as the Point Guard for the Tertiary position...same goes for an Iman Shumpert...Hell for LeBron James he would need a 4th slot for Power Forward!

IDK, just a minor touch that I think would go a LONG way away...also I REALLY would like to see the CPU start players of the same position side by side in MyLeague Great example is The Sixers Have Joel Embiid and Nerlens Noel (In My Roster Embiid is a 79 Ovr C and Noel is a 77 OVR C) I would love to see a CPU controlled Sixers team start Noel at the 4 (which is listed as his secondary postition) instead of starting some no name scrub over Noel when Embiid comes back and bringing Noel off the bench...Hell or even give us the option to edit CPU rotations even if we aren't controlling the teams! Or at least have the logic to make 6th men come off the bench regardless of OVR...Like Isaiah Thomas, Manu Ginobli, and James Harden (In OKC of course...)

[xItzxWeezie]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

Nothing but great ideas right there man! It's nothing I hate more than seeing poor rotations made by the cpu in my league or mygm. Hell even MyCareer there are some starting 5's that are puzzling. Not that those guys like Isaiah Thomas, Crawford, Lou Will etc.. are incapable of starting but that's not their role on real life and I want the game to realize that on its own instead of detracting from the realism that we crave when we play modes like that!


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[RoyalKC]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

Guys already have secondary positions

[Shady Mike]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

Guys already have secondary positions

Sigh...well thank you for that information sir...if you had read anything more than the title of the thread you would know that I already know that...What I would LIKE to see is the secondary positions ACTUALLY effect WHERE a player can be in terms of the starting lineup....

[RoyalKC]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

Actually i read it all so stop being a condescending butthole and they do. I see guys line up in 2 or 3 different spots each guys like igudola who ive seen play the 2 3 and 4

[Comduklakis]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

I think that is a great idea. Rotations are a big issue with 2k. It's not an easy fix. In addition to needing more options for multi position guys like Turner, Shumpert or some stretch 4s like Jerebko or Ryan Anderson (who might play anywhere from a 3 to a 5 depending on matchups), their needs to some kind of logic for matchups. Obviously fouls can dicatate why for example Shumpert might being getting pg minutes. Also injuries can dictate that. But the big challenge for 2k would be creating some kind of logic for the CPU to substitute based on matchups. If a team goes small, the AI can respond one of three ways. The first is the current way, which is to use a standard minutes rotation set in stone. The second would be for the AI to go small as well. The third would be to try to exploit a mismatch and for example, leave Dwight Howard or Andre Drummond out there when the other team goes to Kenneth Fareid or Paul Milsap at the 5 spot.

This is not an easy thing to accomplish and I don't really foresee it coming anytime soon, as neat as it would be. I honestly would settle for the AI simply setting priorities on how they sub. Foul trouble should be priority one and under no circumstances should someone with 3 fouls enter the game in the first half. Priority two could be a mixture of the set rotation minutes and fatigue and would need to factor in time of game. If Lebron is at 70 energy in the 2nd quarter then he would be subbed but with 2 minutes left, he stays on the court. This prioritizing should also include the ability to put in guys with no set minutes in the rotation for both garbage time and when their is a dire foul situation or fatigue situation (or combination of both). Just because Cartier Martin is set at zero minutes, should mean the AI isn't smart enough to bring him in if Caldwell-Pope has 3 fouls in the 1st half, Meeks is fatigued, and Dinwiddie injuried himelf earlier. The AI should understand when to override zero set minutes for the rotation.

Even with secondary positions and no tertiary positions, the AI struggles. When I play the CPU, rarely can they figure out how to get a guy like Taj Gibson or Ryan Anderson his proper 26 or so minutes. Instead the starter will get more minutes than they are supposed to based on set rotations. The reason is the CPU struggles with sub patterns to pull someone like Noah early, then rotate Taj back between Center and PF. This is an issue for almost any sixth man that fluctuates between two (or even 3 IRL) positions.

[nickthemajin]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

I'd to see a way to prioritize certain players. Say I want Shabazz Napier to always play 26 minutes per game to ensure good player development. I set that in some setting and the game builds the rest of the lineup around Shabazz Napier so that Shabazz whether he's on the starting five or on the bench somewhere is always getting at least 26mpg.

Not a huge deal that it's not there since I can do it manually but it'd be nice to be able to turn on automatic lineups and not have to worry that my young players are not developing.

[Lordxiphos78]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

I hope 2K is entertaining and possibly implement this idea into future iterations.
You made a great point with Lebron, him having a fourth slot. Maybe this could be a seperate badge or something, that allows for more than primary and secondary positions for a given player.

[QNo]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

I hope 2K is entertaining and possibly implement this idea into future iterations.
You made a great point with Lebron, him having a fourth slot. Maybe this could be a seperate badge or something, that allows for more than primary and secondary positions for a given player.

LeBron's only ever played SF and PF though, with some SG early on. He's always got two or three guards out there with him. Primary ballhandler =/ PG.

[Shady Mike]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

LeBron's only ever played SF and PF though, with some SG early on. He's always got two or three guards out there with him. Primary ballhandler =/ PG.

LeBron James is a point guard.

[QNo]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

LeBron James is a point guard.

That's simply not true. He's taken on some PG duties, especially early this season, but that doesn't make him a PG. Show me some box scores where he's not playing with other guards on the floor, otherwise I can't take you seriously. Primary ballhandler =/ PG. You could probably make PG his quaternary position, but it's not a position he's really played.

http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612739/lineups/?sort=GP&dir=1

[Shady Mike]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

That's simply not true. He's taken on some PG duties, especially early this season, but that doesn't make him a PG. Show me some box scores where he's not playing with other guards on the floor, otherwise I can't take you seriously. Primary ballhandler =/ PG. You could probably make PG his quaternary position, but it's not a position he's really played.
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612...?sort=GP&dir=1

I don't need to "show" you anything. When I actually WATCH the games I see LeBron Walking the ball up the court and initiating offensive sets while Kyrie Irving, JR Smith, and Kevin Love standing in the corner...thats a point guard to me...if you disagree with me show me game footage, not a link of starting lineups which is clearly irrelevant to the conversation...that's not what I made the thread for lol.

[Shady Mike]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

That's simply not true. He's taken on some PG duties, especially early this season, but that doesn't make him a PG. Show me some box scores where he's not playing with other guards on the floor, otherwise I can't take you seriously. Primary ballhandler =/ PG. You could probably make PG his quaternary position, but it's not a position he's really played.
http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612...?sort=GP&dir=1

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/XYzvNtGSFfs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This is all from last nights game lol
1:06 - Late in shot clock, but look at Kyrie's positioning LeBron is the "Point Guard here"
1:20 - Running "empty set" from the old 4 guard offense LeBron at the "Point"
2:15 - (This one is KINDA debateable because Kyrie IS trailing hoping for the ball)
2:32 - He is matched up against Marcus smart ISO'd at the top of the key lol)
2:51 - Not necessarily in the PG role because it is so late in the shot clock, but this is Cleveland's default lineup with Kyrie in the short corner and JR at the high corner with LeBron Iso'd at the top of the key)

3:54 He is playing point guard...They even run HORNS (Pseudo) pop (Not sure if you ever played organized basketball or understand how a basic offensive set looks, but HERE LeBron is playing a traditional point guard role)



Like I said, if you have something to debate, then go to the footage don't just link box scores...I just gave you 4-6 examples of LeBron James playing point guard from a 4 minute clip lol and I'm sure there are plenty more examples from the game...yes sometimes LeBron is at the 3, and 4, but THIS YEAR...Cleveland has taken to the reality that Kyrie Irving is not a true point guard (5.2APG?) and has transitioned more to a Pseudo 4 out 1 in offense with Kyrie in the short corner, JR in the opposite high corner and KLOVE either in the high post (elbow) or low corner opposite of Kyrie with LeBron running the offense (See LeBron kick to Love for the 3 at 4:31? Looks like a basic ISO doesn't it? This is actually running the "Heavy" set that Utah used to run for Deron Williams, and Philadelphia used to run for Andre Miller back in the day...some high schools call this "Rotate" but it doesn't work as well in HS and College because of the Zone defense).

I am fully aware of LeBron's size and the fact that he is a "Forward" but considering that this season he has taken over MORE THAN HALF of this teams PG duties that is why I refer to him as a PG...you can talk whatever you want about what he is listed as or who he's on the floor with, that's cool, but I am looking at what he is ACTUALLY doing on the court and what his ACTUAL responsibilities are and they seem to be those of a point guard.

[derrtyRedd]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

If you believe LeBron doesn't play PG you haven't seen him play, hell even in MIA he had the PG duties. Who initiates the offense? Who calls the plays out there? And who is the primary ball handler? There's a reason they liken him to Magic Johnson he's a damn 6'8" PG

[QNo]

Re: Would anyone else like to see Primary, Secondary, and even Tertiary positions?

According to your logic, the Spurs play lineups with 4 PGs at once all the time, because even Diaw is the primary ballhandler on a decent number of possessions, calling plays and making great passes. Noah is often the facilitator for the Bulls, is he a PG, too?

I still think you're conflating 'primary ballhandler' or 'facilitator' with 'PG', and doubt that we are going to see eye-to-eye on this one. None of the examples you gave show to me that he is the PG. Sure, those are plays that traditionally a point guard would've done, but the league has long evolved.

LBJ is a point forward. He defends forwards and is defended by forwards. He's not a guard so he can't be a point guard. But then again, this discussion is kind of irrelevant since most pro-teams don't really talk about the game being played in 5 positions anymore, using 13-20 positions. The Heat won rings without a traditional point guard or center.

FWIW I've played organised ball for most of my life at decent level. One of my coaches even used to be an assistant for the Bulls.

That being said, I like the idea of guys having multiple positions in 2k. But this mostly makes sense if there is a penalty if they play out of position. Comboguards like Bledsoe or Monta should be allowed to play the 1 and 2 at not penalty. LBJ should have a very small penalty for any of the positions except the 5. Melo should have a big penalty if he is played at the 1. Other sports games have restrictions and/or penalties for playing guys out of position, why doesn't 2k?