In the name of all that is holy, I want more realistic non-shooting foul frequency!

[sandmac]

I'm a huge fan of this game and there's so much great work done here by Shady, Poke, etc. Thanks guys!!

Off line / User vs CPU. - I have spent countless hours testing....I just can't find a way to consistently get the non-shooting fouls to reflect a true sim experience.

Does anyone have advice? In the months of testing and playing have you guys found any slider formulas + rosters that work to increase loose ball, over the back and blocking? NBA games have a ton of ball-stops for these kind of fouls and I'd LOVE to find this.

ANY help would be hugely appreciated!!!

[PaR@bLe]

Re: In the name of all that is holy, I want more realistic non-shooting foul frequenc

It's a crapshoot....I used Shady Mike's settings and had blocking calls against me and over the backs. I've used Poke's settings also and have seen a fair amount of charge calls. As far as reach ins from the CPU adjust the Steal Slider tendency and lower the success I guess.

2K is in a bit of a pickle when it comes to fouls. The SIM heads want more, but the casual gamer sees it as messing with the flow of the game. If they don't ramp up the CPU defense, the SIM guy says it's too easy. They make it tougher to beat the CPU off the dribble with the animations, the SIM guy is asking for foul calls.

Also, even in the real NBA, calls are subjective. In college you can't even TOUCH a guy any more on the perimeter...check Jay Bilas' twitter for the debate about what's a foul and what isn't. It's hard to replicate in a game without real time physics and all the animations that go into trying to develop a true sim experience.

Dick Bavetta may eat the whistle while Joey Crawford is doin the Nae-Nae to show a charge call......hard to transfer that to a game.

[schnaidt1]

Re: In the name of all that is holy, I want more realistic non-shooting foul frequenc

It would be cool if they stole a page from the show and add like 4-5 ref crews who all call fouls differently...

[enyc718]

Re: In the name of all that is holy, I want more realistic non-shooting foul frequenc

It would be cool if they stole a page from the show and add like 4-5 ref crews who all call fouls differently...

This actually doesn't sound like a bad idea.

[ramziock]

Re: In the name of all that is holy, I want more realistic non-shooting foul frequenc

Hello brother, not heard from you a long time here in nba forum. I test a long time like you on this issue and i get frustrated more and more i have tested. what have you find out with my last slider set(3 months ago) and the raising of the foul tendancy of the players?
I think the problem is in the game and in the foul system. I think all remember of the problem with shooting fouls and not enough FTA in the beginning of the game. 2K have than drop a patch that fix this issue (shooting foul sliders now work). But they forgot to fix the other foul sliders.
I talk withDa_Czar on twitter cause of this issue and he told me that they work on this issue but they need more time.
discussion:
#ramziock2014 <s>@</s>ramziock2014 <small class="time"> 5 Std.Vor 5 Stunden </small>
<s>@</s>Da_Czar hello Da_Czar, I'm getting frustrated cause of non-shooting fouls. Can someone from 2k explain how non shooting foul sliders work


ramziock2014 <s>@</s>ramziock2014 <small class="time"> 5 Std.Vor 5 Stunden </small>

<s>@</s>Da_Czar Give the n.s sliders the frequency of each foul or the % which foul type appear in the game.














#ramziock2014 <s>@</s>ramziock2014 <small class="time"> 5 Std.Vor 5 Stunden </small>
<s>@</s>Da_Czar I hope you guys work on it for nba2k16. Fouls are an important part in basketball game. It effects also the real nba stats.


reponse:
Da_Czar <s>@</s>Da_Czar <small class="time"> 5 Std.Vor 5 Stunden </small>

<s>@</s>ramziock2014 Too much info for twitter. The fouls system doesn’t work as you imagine. Going to need a lot of work to get it where u want


Da_Czar <s>@</s>Da_Czar <small class="time"> 5 Std.Vor 5 Stunden </small>

<s>@</s>ramziock2014 I do hear you just know that is not a one year fix type of system. More incremental over time

[sandmac]

Re: In the name of all that is holy, I want more realistic non-shooting foul frequenc

Ramziok - OK, well I've used your sliders as a base for sure!! Whenever I strayed too far off, it's a problem. I've read your latest (3.29) sliders probably 10 times. lol.

I've been testing like crazy for many hours. I discovered a critical consideration in foul frequency...I believe it's locked into triggered animations. Especially on-ball collision animations for charge/blocking but also over the back and loose ball fouls. The game needs time to recognize whatever trigger they have coded. The animations are an issue. Sometimes the animations runs twitchy quick and sometimes the animations slow down. The slower the contact, the more likely the foul animation occurs.

Therefore, when I've reduced the GAME SPEED, the animations trigger more often. It's not a perfect solution but it helps. The downside is the game itself runs slower so you're going to see slower animations. What we must do is counter that by increasing the player animations speed as much as we can.

Changes I've made to your 3.29 sliders:

Game Speed - 42

Layup Defense Strength (Takeoff) - 80/80

Quickness – 57/57

Speed – 62/62

I also believe the collision animations are tied to lateral quickness, but I've not found a perfect range of ratings. Somehwere around 50-65 seems to trigger blocks & charges.

Also, roster edits are a must for player foul tendancies. VERY time consuming. I wish somebody would global edit DC Hyper rosters for more fouls tendancy.

This foul frequency issue is the thing that kills the game for me. Whatever slider set you guys love, it's not gonna produce realistic non-shooting fouls. Watch any NBA game and you're gonna see a ton of balls stops for blocking fouls, reaches, loose ball etc. They happen constantly. These aren't epic shooting foul events with brutal animations like 2K has coded, they are simple contact moments that result in foul trouble and strategy which is a key part of the game.

Look, I wish I could say I've seen huge breakthoughs. I haven't but I'm pretty certain this is a valid theory but it needs more time and more testing. I'm hoping you guys can help?

Thanks!!

[sandmac]

Re: In the name of all that is holy, I want more realistic non-shooting foul frequenc

@Da_Czar "Give the n.s sliders the frequency of each foul or the % which foul type appear in the game."

I can't figure out what this means. I'm sure he was trying to help but can someone translate or decpiher this? Is he actually saying to simply increase the foul sliders to 100? It doesn't work as intended. Those sliders are broken for non-shooting fouls. At 100, those fouls should happen contantly. Too much for the user. We should want to reduce from 100.

[ramziock]

Re: In the name of all that is holy, I want more realistic non-shooting foul frequenc

@Da_Czar "Give the n.s sliders the frequency of each foul or the % which foul type appear in the game."

I can't figure out what this means. I'm sure he was trying to help but can someone translate or decpiher this? Is he actually saying to simply increase the foul sliders to 100? It doesn't work as intended. Those sliders are broken for non-shooting fouls. At 100, those fouls should happen contantly. Too much for the user. We should want to reduce from 100.

That was my question to him. His answers at me are the two last phrases under reponse:

[schnaidt1]

Re: In the name of all that is holy, I want more realistic non-shooting foul frequenc

This happened tonight...using my sliders...


They don't call this a foul but will call good defense a foul...so dumb

https://youtu.be/-JIxuvZ_qec

[Shady Mike]

Re: In the name of all that is holy, I want more realistic non-shooting foul frequenc

This happened tonight...using my sliders...


They don't call this a foul but will call good defense a foul...so dumb

https://youtu.be/-JIxuvZ_qec

^This.

Happens with every set. Every setting, Sim, Casual, custom w/e. Fix your **** 2K lmaoo

[schnaidt1]

Re: In the name of all that is holy, I want more realistic non-shooting foul frequenc

^This.

Happens with every set. Every setting, Sim, Casual, custom w/e. Fix your **** 2K lmaoo

For real!! I could care less About spike lee....i want gameplay fixes...no more canned animations.....better fouls....for the love of all that is holy put the shot meter on TOP of players for those of us who play broadcast camera......

[ramziock]

Re: In the name of all that is holy, I want more realistic non-shooting foul frequenc

Ramziok - OK, well I've used your sliders as a base for sure!! Whenever I strayed too far off, it's a problem. I've read your latest (3.29) sliders probably 10 times. lol.

I've been testing like crazy for many hours. I discovered a critical consideration in foul frequency...I believe it's locked into triggered animations. Especially on-ball collision animations for charge/blocking but also over the back and loose ball fouls. The game needs time to recognize whatever trigger they have coded. The animations are an issue. Sometimes the animations runs twitchy quick and sometimes the animations slow down. The slower the contact, the more likely the foul animation occurs.

Therefore, when I've reduced the GAME SPEED, the animations trigger more often. It's not a perfect solution but it helps. The downside is the game itself runs slower so you're going to see slower animations. What we must do is counter that by increasing the player animations speed as much as we can.

Changes I've made to your 3.29 sliders:

Game Speed - 42

Layup Defense Strength (Takeoff) - 80/80

Quickness – 57/57

Speed – 62/62

I also believe the collision animations are tied to lateral quickness, but I've not found a perfect range of ratings. Somehwere around 50-65 seems to trigger blocks & charges.

Also, roster edits are a must for player foul tendancies. VERY time consuming. I wish somebody would global edit DC Hyper rosters for more fouls tendancy.

This foul frequency issue is the thing that kills the game for me. Whatever slider set you guys love, it's not gonna produce realistic non-shooting fouls. Watch any NBA game and you're gonna see a ton of balls stops for blocking fouls, reaches, loose ball etc. They happen constantly. These aren't epic shooting foul events with brutal animations like 2K has coded, they are simple contact moments that result in foul trouble and strategy which is a key part of the game.

Look, I wish I could say I've seen huge breakthoughs. I haven't but I'm pretty certain this is a valid theory but it needs more time and more testing. I'm hoping you guys can help?

Thanks!!

Ok, i test out with game speed 42 and quickness 57 with other adjustemnts and i can confirm what you say. The feel of the game for me was very good and i get more non shooting-fouls. More Animations triggered that occurs on foul animation. I saw a new offensive foul animation and a good variation. I test always with a pen and paper. I notice how much offense, loose ball, shooting and etc. fouls occurs in the game. in this page:http://www.nbaminer.com/foul-details/ i compare the foul stats.

I play my last game with rockets vs grizzlies(cpu).

User Cpu
offense fouls: 2 2
loose ball: 0 1
shooting: 8 12
rest: 6 7

total: 16 22

game stats: http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php...1433696164.jpg

Now i continue to test with O.T.B and loose ball foul-sliders to get maximum. I think there are other slider values that effect loose ball and O.T.B. for example rebounds. I must play more games and see the constanty of the calls. But my feel say to me that we are in the right direction.

[sandmac]

Re: In the name of all that is holy, I want more realistic non-shooting foul frequenc

Another key consideration: Fatigue

You would think in this game (as in real life), when players tire they lazy-foul more often.
I'm not certain, but think I see more of our non-shooting fouls early in game.

2K players literally slow down in-game when they are tired correct?

If our game speed theory is correct will this affect non-shooting fouls occurance?

Ramziok are you seeing MORE of these non-shooting fouls early in-game or at least when the players are full speed? Can you track WHEN the fouls occur as well?

---

OVER THE BACK / LOOSE BALL FOULS

I never understood if raising the rebounding slider / player ratings actually results in more SUCCESSFUL rebounds or forces ATTEMPTS to crash the boards. If it's forces more attempts to crash, this is good and then by raising box-out ratings could force more OTB and loose ball fouls.

I know that a 99/99 rated CPU player has OTB 3 times in one game aginst me.

[sandmac]

Re: In the name of all that is holy, I want more realistic non-shooting foul frequenc

^This.

Happens with every set. Every setting, Sim, Casual, custom w/e. Fix your **** 2K lmaoo

Thank you! There are plenty of coded collisions. They happen all the time in-game.
If there is a coded collision animation- code your game to CALL A FOUL.

It's not like we are just calling for MORE non-shooting fouls 2K. It's the fact that the collisions are happening in your animations but the fouls are never called! How could this not drive your users insane?!

[ramziock]

Re: In the name of all that is holy, I want more realistic non-shooting foul frequenc

I see more of our non-shooting fouls early in game. I will test nxt weekend more and give you a feedback. what are you foul sliders look like now?
the old one from 3.29?
i have now speed at 99, strength 75 Durability 65 and hustle 100. with hustle at 100 you see more battle for rebounds and i think this araise the chance to see more O.T.B and loose ball fouls