Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions - Confidence, Goals, Hub & More (MyMaddenPad)

[brandon27]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions - Confidence, Goals, Hub & More (MyMaddenPad)

Because they practice at it. Not because they reach some goal. Some players will become a much better catcher (much better hands), while others won't improve much. All depends on what they focus on, how much they focus on it, who they are working with, and what potential they have to improve that particular trait. Goals have nothing to do with this. Which you actually do get into later in your post.



How XP is gained and used all depends on what type of control you want.

Unrealistic, gain XP through goals and spend XP on any trait with no potential cap on that trait.

Realistic, gain XP through realistic means, the things you have mentioned, and use the XP and have a higher % of XP spent on attributes that were focused on and a lower % of XP spent on other attributes, with a potential cap on all attributes.

In a realistic system, XP becomes a middle man that isn't even necessary. An unrealistic RPG system, XP is essential.

This all depends on what type of control someone wants. I really think you and I are basically agreeing in principle, and maybe not agreeing on some of the details.

Oh, absolutely! Again, I'm not really disagreeing with anyone's opinion on this matter. Just discussing it, from both sides, and kind of brainstorming on how it could be done better, while still giving some control to the user.


I can totally see how the XP system gets abused, and becomes unrealistic. Im just also OK with it. While it's not as realistic as it could be, I use it in what I think is a logical sense from a GM/Coach/Player standpoint, because... well that's all I have to work with in the game.


My biggest concern is how it gets changed, if it ever does. I don't like the idea of players having hard caps built into the roster file that says this is as good as they can ever get, no matter what, even though it makes sense realistically, because some guys do hit that ceiling. However, I think that ceiling can vary from team to team as well dependent on coaching, training, better teams/facilities, better schemes etc.


Like you and I have both said, there's a large number of ways for this to work, everyone is going to have their own opinion on it.


It almost needs a separate part of CFM as it's own module of the franchise component really.

[jpdavis82]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions - Confidence, Goals, Hub & More (MyMaddenPad)

A players attributes should determine performance, not the other way around.

Check your PM's

[brandon27]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions - Confidence, Goals, Hub & More (MyMaddenPad)

I like to use this example. Pick any WR in the league. Say he has a goal for 130 catches and he attains that goal should his catch ratings go up? Yes, should his speed increase? Not at all.

Absolutely agreed. How do you propose an increase for a player's speed though by way of on field performance though? That's all we have in the mode to base it on right now.


So you'd have to either restrict the attributes you can spend XP on, but that doesn't really help, because rookies especially when they join the NFL, get bigger, stronger, and faster through training, and further growth and development of their bodies simply by age, and weight training etc. etc. So, you need a way to account for that too.


Maybe they need to categorize the rating attributes. Say... group ones like agility, speed, strength in to a category named "physical". Then group catching, spec catch, hands, carrying etc into "positional". Then group some others into mental. Then break it down by each position by a weighted value towards the three categories and how important they are to that position, and the XP earned from each "goal" is distributed by that formula to those categories. So... you might earn 10,000 XP for that 130 catch goal, but you might only be able to spend 10% of it into the physical category. So, it makes it more difficult to earn those attributes.


Although... now that I think of it, I guess it is kind of that way now. Those certain key attributes for certain positions are a lot more expensive to purchase than others.


I give up. lol


I agree there's got to be a better way, but like I've said, I don't think theres any way possible that's going to satisfy everyone. We have this method now, because of all the complaints of the old method. So they gave us "control". Changing it back is just going to cause the same problem I feel.

[kehlis]

Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions - Confidence, Goals, Hub & More (MyMaddenPad)

Check your PM's

Got it this morning, will respond when by a computer after work tonight.

[Hooe]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions - Confidence, Goals, Hub & More (MyMaddenPad)

A usage question (and only a usage question) - do people here focus their XP spending on SPD / ACC in CFM?

Personally, I find this incredibly inefficient. Using the WR example, I'd rather upgrade his CTH / CIT / RRT / SPC / AWR ratings. The way EA has balanced the game, one can increase these ratings by more total points than if one just focuses on SPD / ACC, and by a significant margin. If I spend my XP on SPD / ACC instead, I'm not maximizing the value of that XP spent and not improving that player as much as I potentially could otherwise.

If I want a more athletic player, more often than not I have to draft him, not build him.

[Skyboxer]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions - Confidence, Goals, Hub & More (MyMaddenPad)

All this talk about XP/Confidence etc.. (RPG this and that)... really is just another smoke and mirror aspects of Madden.
Sometimes I wonder if EA does this on purpose to keep the full feedback process away from totally discussing gameplay.
At the end of the day all these things (just like ratings) are simply parts of a recipe that is at it's core, inherently flawed.

Until EA get basic football strategy in the game with major AI improvements then we're simply going on and on about things that in the end, really has little if any importance to the FB experience with the current state of the game.

With that said I really really hope ratings got an overhaul this year and more have become important.

[brandon27]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions - Confidence, Goals, Hub & More (MyMaddenPad)

A usage question (and only a usage question) - do people here focus their XP spending on SPD / ACC in CFM?

Personally, I find this incredibly inefficient. Using the WR example, I'd rather upgrade his CTH / CIT / RRT / SPC / AWR ratings. The way EA has balanced the game, one can increase these ratings by more total points than if one just focuses on SPD / ACC. If I spend my XP on SPD / ACC instead, I'm not maximizing the value of that XP spent and not improving that player as much as I potentially could otherwise.

My thoughts exactly. I typically will invest it in the traits that effect the player most at his position.


The only time I'm ever working on a speed type attribute is if I really blew it in scouting and drafted a slow RB or something like that.


Like you said, it's just too cost prohibitive when there's position specific attributes that have more value.

[SolidSquid]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions - Confidence, Goals, Hub & More (MyMaddenPad)

A usage question (and only a usage question) - do people here focus their XP spending on SPD / ACC in CFM?

Personally, I find this incredibly inefficient. Using the WR example, I'd rather upgrade his CTH / CIT / RRT / SPC / AWR ratings. The way EA has balanced the game, one can increase these ratings by more total points than if one just focuses on SPD / ACC, and by a significant margin. If I spend my XP on SPD / ACC instead, I'm not maximizing the value of that XP spent and not improving that player as much as I potentially could otherwise.

If I want a more athletic player, more often than not I have to draft him, not build him.

Agreed and I don't do it either but I'm a single player who plays exclusively against the cpu. The problem arises in online leagues where it's not just speed and acceleration that are upgraded. Also it's not efficient but it's also very unrealistic. Getting 100 tackles with 2 of your LBs doesn't mean next season those guys should have increased zone coverage, likewise getting a lot of ints with you secondary doesn't mean they should become the hardest hitting secondary in the league and force a ton of fumbles. XP is extremely unbalanced.

[bad_philanthropy]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions - Confidence, Goals, Hub & More (MyMaddenPad)

XP shouldn't even apply to physical attributes. I'd like to see it for football attributes only, and physical attributes progress or regress through a non-user controlled method.

[msdm27]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions - Confidence, Goals, Hub & More (MyMaddenPad)

Too many pages went by to quote you, bucky60.... but to the point of giving ratings to coaches and then automating tasks.

I agree, that sounds pretty dope and like a sound solution, BUT...

A year from the implementation, we'd be discussing why coaches' ratings are static and how they should be dynamic... maybe we could send our tight end coach to a seminar to make him improve his teaching skills thus making my tight end better.

It goes back to my "endless loop" point.

Even if a system/method is found to make coaches ratings fluctuate...what's stopping users from just signing all the better coaches? You could say: a limited budget.
But that's not realistic either, there's a plethora of factors that go into why coaches/coordinators choose their teams but money is usually not the top reason (likely pretty much the same from all suitors).

I'm not trying to be anthagonistic... just trying to discuss a new way of doing things in Madden

As some others have stated, the most plausbible solution might be to limit XP usage to non-physical attributes.

[jfsolo]

Re: Madden 16 CFM initial impressions by Shopmaster Part 1

The problem I see here though, this is the system we used to have in Madden. Then people complained it wasn't good enough for whatever reasons they thought. People complained they wanted control over it, rather than the CPU just being "random" about it.


Personally, I don't have an issue with the system as it is. I play the game as if the XP doesn't exist in game. I call my plays as if I would as the coach. I throw to the open guy based on the read I made, not based on who needs a number of catches in a game, or drive or whatever to hit a goal.


Then you take your XP, weekly, bi-weekly, whatever... for me it's every 4 weeks, and I apply it in the area's I want my players to improve as if I was serving the coach/GM role. So, if my WR's have poor hands... as a coach, I'd be putting them on the jugs machines daily to work on their catching, so... I'd dump my XP into them there. If they were poor route runners, and not able to get open, well, now as a coach, I'd be working on the release techniques, their route running etc.. So that's where my XP would go.


Now, to me, that system works great. My guys get whatever they get by the way I play the game. I'm an offline player, so it's easy for me. I can understand though where it's an issue for online guys, because I'm sure there's guys in leagues that are just taking advantage of the system. However, with the trend shifting towards everything online, that's where the problem lies IMO. That's another rant for another day though.


While the XP system works for me, because of how I choose to play within it, and use it. I completely understand why you'd want to base it on Fifa types, with potential, and age, etc, etc, etc. However... the big drawback there, if someone at EA decides that DeVante Parker, the rookie WR for Miami gets only a B potential, and will be maxed at an 80 OVR, then I've got, and many others have a big problem with that. Because, lets say I put up back to back to back 100 catch, 1200 yard, 12 TD seasons with the WR... he's clearly filling a superstar role on my team, yet the system is prohibiting him from his ratings advancing. To me, that's an issue.


Bottom line is, nobody is every going to be happy with it.

I basically agree 1000% with everything you've said here. I totally understand people not liking the current system, but it's strange to me that people sabotage their own experience by adopting a meta playstyle.

[jfsolo]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions - Confidence, Goals, Hub & More (MyMaddenPad)

A usage question (and only a usage question) - do people here focus their XP spending on SPD / ACC in CFM?

Personally, I find this incredibly inefficient. Using the WR example, I'd rather upgrade his CTH / CIT / RRT / SPC / AWR ratings. The way EA has balanced the game, one can increase these ratings by more total points than if one just focuses on SPD / ACC, and by a significant margin. If I spend my XP on SPD / ACC instead, I'm not maximizing the value of that XP spent and not improving that player as much as I potentially could otherwise.

If I want a more athletic player, more often than not I have to draft him, not build him.

I play the way you play. Maybe in User v User games speed is still the only thing that matters, but for me in my CFM, Play Recognition, Awareness and skill development are much more important.

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions - Confidence, Goals, Hub & More (MyMaddenPad)

A year from the implementation, we'd be discussing why coaches' ratings are static and how they should be dynamic... maybe we could send our tight end coach to a seminar to make him improve his teaching skills thus making my tight end better.

It goes back to my "endless loop" point.

I see this as a good thing. More depth and not an endless loop. The endless loop I see is EA/Tib is on their second or third interpretation of scouting and XP/Goals. Instead of adding depth, they're redoing existing features.

Even if a system/method is found to make coaches ratings fluctuate...what's stopping users from just signing all the better coaches? You could say: a limited budget.
But that's not realistic either, there's a plethora of factors that go into why coaches/coordinators choose their teams but money is usually not the top reason (likely pretty much the same from all suitors).

I would say a better, more in depth financial model. Some games, like that PS4 baseball game, has things other than salary built into FA signings. The same depth could be done for coaches. And a progression system could be created for coaches as well. Other sports games have done it.

And I haven't taken you as being antagonistic. I see what we are having as a respectful dialogue. I respect your opinions. I might not agree with all of them. I guess that's what forums are for.

[msdm27]

Re: Madden NFL 16 CFM Impressions - Confidence, Goals, Hub & More (MyMaddenPad)

I see this as a good thing. More depth and not an endless loop. The endless loop I see is EA/Tib is on their second or third interpretation of scouting and XP/Goals. Instead of adding depth, they're redoing existing features.



I would say a better, more in depth financial model. Some games, like that PS4 baseball game, has things other than salary built into FA signings. The same depth could be done for coaches. And a progression system could be created for coaches as well. Other sports games have done it.

And I haven't taken you as being antagonistic. I see what we are having as a respectful dialogue. I respect your opinions. I might not agree with all of them. I guess that's what forums are for.

I generally agree with all your suggestions in the last few pages, as I'm actually more interested in CFM for the management/game prep/progression aspect rather than the games. That's where the thrill is imo (building your team)

I just don't think it's realistic for us to hope EA would deviate so much from what they've invested so much in (make things easier, not deeper)... that's why I'm trying to come up with solutions bound by realism (inability to improve SPD/ACC) but that still fall within the realm of XP earned via gameplay.

Some of the in-depth suggestions we're discussing seem more realistic for text-based games. Even the undisclosed baseball game that implements some of the things we discuss, utilizes a simplistic... here's your scout --- press X to train Z ---- See results.

BTW... the financial system in said baseball game is actually very flawed... one bad season and the Yankeezzz all of the sudden have no budget at all, for example. And I think we've seen how Madden's implementation of finances work out

In addition to ratings for coaches or players, a real randomization algorythm (untied from ratings --- basically accounting for work ethic, I guess) would have to be in place to determine if and how much players progress or coaches have effect on players. And we, as players would have to be ok with such randomized events.

I know I'd be, but I doubt the majority would

[maafla1]

My big thing is substitutions - either automatic or manual. It takes too long to make substitutions, especially on offense when the play clock is ticking down. I have never been convinced that the substitution sliders work the way they should.