Madden NFL 16: Penalties Are Finally Going to Be a Thing

[The JareBear]

Re: Madden NFL 16: Penalties Are Finally Going to Be a Thing

Penalties are a huge part of the NFL, where actual human brains decide to reach out and grab that Jersey. People get tired and make mistakes. They get beat and decide to just tackle the receiver.

I'm not a fan of penalties in a computer game, where everything is RANDOM. Case in point, the game I just played, I think I counted 5 blocks in the back, but that's part of the programming limitations....it was just the cpu reacting to where the ball went and trying to block effectively as it could. Should that stuff be called? Another example, there was some play action pass (I forget which one exactly) where every time I ran it, the blocking back who I gave the fake to would get called for holding EVERY time. After 5 times, I took it out of my playbook....is that how penalties should work?

I'm fine with the late hits and offside and stuff that is user controlled (running over that receiver trying to make the catch), but randomly inserted penalties are garbage.

I could be wrong but I think a combination of discipline, penalty (or maybe those two are the same rating?), and fatigue influence how likely a guy is to make a mistake and get flagged in the game. I think that is actually pretty realistic

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 16: Penalties Are Finally Going to Be a Thing

Doesnt a penalty rating (like in Madden 16) simulate that? A OL with a higher rating is more likely to commit a penalty than someone with a lower rating.

I would think the penalty rating would work along side the players technique ratings and fatigue.

If the blogs pan out in actual gameplay, I'm liking the direction and changes on the gameplay side.

EDIT: I was too slow.

[Josiphos]

Re: Madden NFL 16: Penalties Are Finally Going to Be a Thing

Almost everything in a computer sports game is random. Not just penalties. Should missed blocks be taken out? Incomplete passes? I just don't buy your argument that they are garbage or why they are garbage. Almost everything in a sports video game is a random modifier to ratings.

Missed blocks are just part of the movements of the oline. You could argue they are random, but part of their programming is to go to x, block any one there.

Penalties are decided by a neutral observer in the Nfl to keep things fair and to ensure adherence to the rules. You don't need refeeres in a videogame, as the programming will not allow deviations from the rules in most cases. Exceptions being me hit sticking Russel Wilson when he's five yards out of bounds. That should be a penalty and should be in the game.

I just don't know how you put in holding calls and not make it totally dependant on the cpu's random number generator


it has been 38.12343234 seconds....output : holding call, execute) <---- I don't like that idea


Edit: I could more easily stomach awareness, agility and intelligence influencing penalties. That would be better than what we have now with field goal automatic false start bugs.

[bucky60]

Re: Madden NFL 16: Penalties Are Finally Going to Be a Thing

Missed blocks are just part of the movements of the oline. You could argue they are random, but part of their programming is to go to x, block any one there.

Blocking itself is a random act. Rating against ratings alon with some randomizing and who wins. At times I see the OLB or DE go right past the LT who is position to block. That's some randomizing used along with ratings. Almost EVERYTHING in a sports video game is a random modifier to some ratings. Without the randomness, the game doesn't exist.

I just don't know how you put in holding calls and not make it totally dependant on the cpu's random number generator

You don't make it totally dependent on a random generator. You have the randomizing along with ratings.

[oneamongthefence]

Re: Madden NFL 16: Penalties Are Finally Going to Be a Thing

The sliders are great to hear of they work. I think a referee awareness slider is needed too. Turning it to 0 would allow penaties to still happen but referees would ignore almost all of them while at 100 the referees would see every penalty and make aggressive calls.

But it's good that they finally really went after them and made them a larger part of the game.

[Josiphos]

Re: Madden NFL 16: Penalties Are Finally Going to Be a Thing

Blocking itself is a random act. Rating against ratings alon with some randomizing and who wins. At times I see the OLB or DE go right past the LT who is position to block. That's some randomizing used along with ratings. Almost EVERYTHING in a sports video game is a random modifier to some ratings. Without the randomness, the game doesn't exist.



You don't make it totally dependent on a random generator. You have the randomizing along with ratings.

I guess I'm just wary of the computer policing itself, per se.

I've gotten used to zero penalties this year. I can just predict I'm going to have some soul crushing, super bowl altering penalty in 16.

In the real nfl, I can look at the replay and be like yeah, he held.

In 16, it's gonna be like, wtf just happened?

Edit: I guess the whole crux of my argument is I don't understand how you can effectively program something to realize the guards hands were actually grasping and twisting, rather than staying open and pushing. You can tie "intelligence to it" all day long, but you're not going to get an accurate depiction of what is and is not holding. Adding an additional layer of randomness on top of what we already have, is not that important to me

[m1ke_nyc]

Re: Madden NFL 16: Penalties Are Finally Going to Be a Thing

I guess I'm just wary of the computer policing itself, per se.

I've gotten used to zero penalties this year. I can just predict I'm going to have some soul crushing, super bowl altering penalty in 16.

In the real nfl, I can look at the replay and be like yeah, he held.

In 16, it's gonna be like, wtf just happened?

Edit: I guess the whole crux of my argument is I don't understand how you can effectively program something to realize the guards hands were actually grasping and twisting, rather than staying open and pushing. You can tie "intelligence to it" all day long, but you're not going to get an accurate depiction of what is and is not holding. Adding an additional layer of randomness on top of what we already have, is not that important to me

Football is a team sport, you cannot control all players on the field. Just like you can have a random penalty cost you the superbowl you can have a random slip by a wide open receiver in the endzone on the last play of the superbowl to cost you the game. Should they take slips out of the game then ?

[Shady Mike]

Re: Madden NFL 16: Penalties Are Finally Going to Be a Thing

I guess I'm just wary of the computer policing itself, per se.

I've gotten used to zero penalties this year. I can just predict I'm going to have some soul crushing, super bowl altering penalty in 16.

In the real nfl, I can look at the replay and be like yeah, he held.

In 16, it's gonna be like, wtf just happened?

Edit: I guess the whole crux of my argument is I don't understand how you can effectively program something to realize the guards hands were actually grasping and twisting, rather than staying open and pushing. You can tie "intelligence to it" all day long, but you're not going to get an accurate depiction of what is and is not holding. Adding an additional layer of randomness on top of what we already have, is not that important to me

Welp too bad, because now you have to actually play FOOTBALL and in FOOTBALL there are penalties. Glad to see that my thread was taken so seriously because THIS is what the community asked for, and EA listened. This is FOR US! #SimNation

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...penalties.html

[Josiphos]

Re: Madden NFL 16: Penalties Are Finally Going to Be a Thing

Football is a team sport, you cannot control all players on the field. Just like you can have a random penalty cost you the superbowl you can have a random slip by a wide open receiver in the endzone on the last play of the superbowl to cost you the game. Should they take slips out of the game then ?

I'm not asking to take away randomness. Slipping and falling is based directly on player agility, conditions etc.

Penalties however are different, as they are best applied by independent refeeres. That's impossible in a computer game, ergo, I'd argue to just leave them out of the game.

We can have all the slips and blown coverages you can eat though.

[Shady Mike]

Re: Madden NFL 16: Penalties Are Finally Going to Be a Thing

I'm not asking to take away randomness. Slipping and falling is based directly on player agility, conditions etc.

Penalties however are different, as they are best applied by independent refeeres. That's impossible in a computer game, ergo, I'd argue to just leave them out of the game.

We can have all the slips and blown coverages you can eat though.

Well the way I see it is you've had it your way for 25 years, now its our turn. #SimNation

[kehlis]

Re: Madden NFL 16: Penalties Are Finally Going to Be a Thing

Well the way I see it is you've had it your way for 25 years, now its our turn. #SimNation

Why can't it be both?

[TTD71]

Re: Madden NFL 16: Penalties Are Finally Going to Be a Thing

Edit: I guess the whole crux of my argument is I don't understand how you can effectively program something to realize the guards hands were actually grasping and twisting, rather than staying open and pushing. You can tie "intelligence to it" all day long, but you're not going to get an accurate depiction of what is and is not holding. Adding an additional layer of randomness on top of what we already have, is not that important to me

This is something I distinctly remember hearing or reading about all the way back to the Ian Cummings days of Madden franchise. Back then there were some of us asking for penalties too....more realistic, more frequent, more impact than just offsides or roughing. One of the reasons we have been told numerous times over the years why penalties WEREN'T more widespread or why holding was not ever really called was because they "lacked the animations to show it, so in replays you would see the player hold". Maybe they finally feel good enough about the animations to try it out? We'll see soon enough...

It would be nice to see the penalties be affected by the user's play call selections (ie. constant Bump and Run or constant deep passing, or lack of using different plays, or constant no huddle with a team not built for that style, etc.) as well as skill ratings (pass block, run block, shed block, coverages, etc.), mental ratings (awareness, penalty, veteran vs. rookie, etc.) along with real, progressive fatigue.

After more than 20 years of playing Madden games across 5 generations of consoles (from Sega Gensis to PS4), I know better than to hold my breath. The game will be an iterative improvement in some ways, a crushing let down in others and the only decision to make for some is whether or not they will get value for their purchase. Since I ALWAYS get more than 100 hours of gameplay out of online play alone and probably 2X that overall, I have never had a crisis of conscience buying the annual releases regardless of the number of times I have heard promises broken or "couldn't get that in this year".

I'm old now, so I may have just mellowed enough to care less, but I enjoyed M25 and M15 on PS4 and I'm sure I will enjoy M16 as well. I'm equally sure that some of the things I have hoped to see for years will remain missing, but increased penalties is nice to finally see on the list of "new" features.

[Josiphos]

Re: Madden NFL 16: Penalties Are Finally Going to Be a Thing

Well the way I see it is you've had it your way for 25 years, now its our turn. #SimNation

Enjoy your number generator then

One of the reasons we have been told numerous times over the years why penalties WEREN'T more widespread or why holding was not ever really called was because they "lacked the animations to show it, so in replays you would see the player hold". Maybe they finally feel good enough about the animations to try it out?

It would be nice to see the penalties be affected by the user's play call selections (ie. constant Bump and Run or constant deep passing, or lack of using different plays, or constant no huddle with a team not built for that style, etc.) as well as skill ratings (pass block, run block, shed block, coverages, etc.), mental ratings (awareness, penalty, veteran vs. rookie, etc.) along with real, progressive fatigue.

What this guy said. Ill embrace penalties when I can actually see/ control them. I've mentioned before the penalties that already follow this, late hits offside etc

Call me when they get the rest

[Shady Mike]

Re: Madden NFL 16: Penalties Are Finally Going to Be a Thing

Enjoy your number generator then

No sir, I will enjoy FOOTBALL.

Why can't it be both?

I'd argue that it can and it is! All we needed is working penalty sliders and hopefully that is just what we got! I'm sure for online modes they will be VERY low, and for offline modes you can place them wherever you want!

[TimLawNYC]

Except, since this is EA, their "emphasis" on increased penalties basically means there's going to be a flag on EVERY. SINGLE. PLAY.