Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Like I have pointed out already, the offensive line blocking is very much improved and follows some solid line blocking assignments with identifying the "mike." Realize, the "mike" is actually two things..It can be the middle linebacker and it is also the "mike" called out as the middle of the blocking assignment so the offensive line and backs know who to block, with the center taking the "mike" which can be the middle linebacker or a OLB or even a safety..

The importance of getting the line blocking correct, which madden is doing, was highlighted by Knute Rockne...

The story goes that "The Four Horsemen" of Notre Dame were getting so full of themselves of how great they thought they were, that Knute Rockne instructed his offensive line to miss their blocking assignments, and the great four horsemen got crushed; granted, this I believe was in a scrimmage/practice, but Rockne proved the great importance of proper blocking, and how much everything is dependent on proper blocking...

Madden, with Clint advising the blocking assignments, has greatly improved the game...

[charter04]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

That would be fine. If EVERYONE stayed rigidly on topic, not just me.

But from his conversation with the devs it sure seemed like a lot of cold water was thrown on his rating system and Rex telling him the focus is more on competitive play and not realistic sim stuff. Which is disappointing.

So if I got off topic I apologize.

It's not really about staying rigidly on topic but, is this really the thread to start a discussion about 9 categories were Madden has or hasn't delivered the best ever in a football game? That horse has been beat to death. We all know the things it doesn't do good. Thread after thread has discussed it.

I was saying that at least the critique in this thread could just be about the ratings or ratings related stuff like progression and how ratings affect gameplay.

That's why I said that I wasn't trying to single you out i could just see were things are starting to go. I just find the ratings topic more interesting than the list of things madden doesn't do well.

[bcruise]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

It's not really about staying rigidly on topic but, is this really the thread to start a discussion about 9 categories were Madden has or hasn't delivered the best ever in a football game? That horse has been beat to death. We all know the things it doesn't do good. Thread after thread has discussed it.

I was saying that at least the critique in this thread could just be about the ratings or ratings related stuff like progression and how ratings affect gameplay.

That's why I said that I wasn't trying to single you out i could just see were things are starting to go. I just find the ratings topic more interesting than the list of things madden doesn't do well.

Agree....speaking only for myself, that chart about how the overall ratings are weighted was one of the most interesting things that I've seen come out of Madden blogs in years. Even if certain ratings tend to mean less in the actual gameplay than they do in the overall weighting, it still heavily influenced a lot of my decisions in the online CFM I was involved in - mostly for the better.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Dan,

1st off they should try the rosters with your ratings. I saw no issues that broke gameplay. It only spread ratings out and separated superstars from average joe's. It made game 1000x more realistic and better. To hear they are skeptical I say they need to try them and see for themselves the difference.

Knowing your ratings produce low overalls (we all know that doesn't mean anything) and that people, fans, players will freak why not a simple solution of recalculating and coming up with a new formula for overalls? So we use lower spread out real data for ratings for areas such as speed, strength, acceleration, agility, etc. then with recalculated formulas that even with a 82 speed and 81 accel added with other specific positional ratings could still produce higher overalls? Couldn't this be a simple recalculation of formulas to produce this so everyone wins. It's probably harder than that but could this not be feasible? Then we have tom Brady with 98 overall but he has real ratings with the data backed up in the areas I mentioned above. Maybe even make speed, strength, accel, agility not even factor in for overall ratings? It's just spread out to separate players appropriately in key areas that in itself is a game changer. Idk just thinking outside of box...

[DeuceDouglas]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

I don't really understand how they think the ratings could potentially break the gameplay. Outside of speed, there isn't much difference when playing and the only thing that could really "break the game" when it comes to them is if they don't account for the toned down speed in CFM in terms of progression or draft classes.

It sucks that something like this is based on such a "wow" factor when it comes to the casual audience. "Aaron Rodgers is a 90?!?!?!?!? What do you mean a 90?" It wouldn't matter if 90 was the best QB in the game, he still wouldn't be seen as rated highly enough and I think that's something they need to try and get out of peoples minds. There has come this stigma with 99 and breakout players that I wish they could break but I just don't see it happening.

I think getting rid of the overall would definitely be a positive move. Especially considering there's now a playercard that gives you most of the important attributes. It would force people to know or at least focus more on the player rather than some arbitrary number that really doesn't mean a whole lot. Whether you get rid of it altogether or change it to something like a bar from MVP Baseball, something needs to be done and it seems like they're at least somewhat aware of it but don't really have a plan as of yet.

[Mr.Papercut]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

You have to remember Madden still has UT. Applying these ratings to that is considerably more of a waste of time, because Madden truly loves to produce those 99ovr legend cards for no reason at all. Of course, games there are more "competitive".

[Sheba2011]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

You have to remember Madden still has UT. Applying these ratings to that is considerably more of a waste of time, because Madden truly loves to produce those 99ovr legend cards for no reason at all. Of course, games there are more "competitive".

There are millions of reasons why they produce those cards all of them start with $. Ratings are marketing for EA, especially in a mode like UT. People will spend hundreds of dollars on packs of virtual cards in hopes of getting that 99 OVR "Legend" (i use "" because many of the players were never actual legends and are just older players) card.

[sir psycho]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Just read through all of these posts since Dan reported back on his conversation with Rex, and most of what I want to say has already been said.

Bottom line, I can't say how disappointed I am that after all of this talk from Rex about how he wants to make everything more sim, we hear that "competitive balance" is more important than accuracy. That flat out sucks. I was honestly expecting it to finally be going in the other direction. I know, it might not end up being as bad as it sounds, but it definitely is disappointing.

The scariest thing is that they're actually considering using the Madden community for crowd sourcing with ratings.

It's too bad that there is no chance of them completely buying into Dan's system.

[jeremym480]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Dan,

1st off they should try the rosters with your ratings. I saw no issues that broke gameplay. It only spread ratings out and separated superstars from average joe's. It made game 1000x more realistic and better. To hear they are skeptical I say they need to try them and see for themselves the difference.

Knowing your ratings produce low overalls (we all know that doesn't mean anything) and that people, fans, players will freak why not a simple solution of recalculating and coming up with a new formula for overalls? So we use lower spread out real data for ratings for areas such as speed, strength, acceleration, agility, etc. then with recalculated formulas that even with a 82 speed and 81 accel added with other specific positional ratings could still produce higher overalls? Couldn't this be a simple recalculation of formulas to produce this so everyone wins. It's probably harder than that but could this not be feasible? Then we have tom Brady with 98 overall but he has real ratings with the data backed up in the areas I mentioned above. Maybe even make speed, strength, accel, agility not even factor in for overall ratings? It's just spread out to separate players appropriately in key areas that in itself is a game changer. Idk just thinking outside of box...

This was pretty much what I was thinking as well. Although my other thought would be the simplest of simple solutions which is to have both ratings (Madden Classic Ratings and FBG Ratings/"Stretched Ratings") in the game; and when you load up a roster/CFM you get to choose which ratings system that you want to go with.

That would appease each side... The side that wants to play with the over inflated ratings and the stretched ratings side.

[poster]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Being able to edit ratings during cfm is probably the one thing keeping me from purchasing the game. They have made improvements, but so much more could be done with community rosters with ratings from Dan's database or suggestions over the years from community guys like Gotmadskillsson, khaliib, Playmakers and others that have improved the way the players play and animate during the game.

I'd love to get immersed in a franchise mode again and don't want to spend my time editing ratings all of the time, but it is better then being forced to use their system.

[RexDEAFootball]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Just read through all of these posts since Dan reported back on his conversation with Rex, and most of what I want to say has already been said.

Bottom line, I can't say how disappointed I am that after all of this talk from Rex about how he wants to make everything more sim, we hear that "competitive balance" is more important than accuracy. That flat out sucks. I was honestly expecting it to finally be going in the other direction. I know, it might not end up being as bad as it sounds, but it definitely is disappointing.

The scariest thing is that they're actually considering using the Madden community for crowd sourcing with ratings.

It's too bad that there is no chance of them completely buying into Dan's system.

Hold on guys.

When I said 'competitive balance' I am referring to overall game balance. User vs. User and User vs. CPU. When we have tried these types of ratings changes in the past, it would negatively impact that balance to the degree that I was not comfortable moving forward with it for the good of the game.

Competitive balance (overall game balance and playability) is inseparable from generating authentic outcomes. The two go hand in hand.

When I referred to 'community sourced' ratings, that could mean anything. It started out with us reaching out to the most respected and well known ratings sites out there. Don't automatically assume this will turn into a PR driven 'cover vote' style thing, that is not our intent. We want to figure out the best way to involve and utilize the community moving forward in generating a ratings system that represents the best thing for the game.

Finally I want to mention that Donny Moore shared this vision of fewer elites and greater ratings spread. It is a shared goal we are actively working towards.

[Sausage]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Hold on guys.

When I said 'competitive balance' I am referring to overall game balance. User vs. User and User vs. CPU. When we have tried these types of ratings changes in the past, it would negatively impact that balance to the degree that I was not comfortable moving forward with it for the good of the game.

Competitive balance (overall game balance and playability) is inseparable from generating authentic outcomes. The two go hand in hand.

When I referred to 'community sourced' ratings, that could mean anything. It started out with us reaching out to the most respected and well known ratings sites out there. Don't automatically assume this will turn into a PR driven 'cover vote' style thing, that is not our intent. We want to figure out the best way to involve and utilize the community moving forward in generating a ratings system that represents the best thing for the game.

Finally I want to mention that Donny Moore shared this vision of fewer elites and greater ratings spread. It is a shared goal we are actively working towards.

Thanks for some clarification; hopefully you eventually move towards a more ratings spread roster updates.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

This gives us an insight into the mess the current system is in with using hidden "weights".

This is for OVR's but gives a glimps into weights impacting against each other.
They have to clean this up and find a rational that will work better.

That article was complete Horse Hockey! I took every one of their "weights" and threw them into a formula and compared them to mine and they are WAY OFF. As in, off by like 5 points in some instances. See for yourself!

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Dan,

1st off they should try the rosters with your ratings. I saw no issues that broke gameplay. It only spread ratings out and separated superstars from average joe's. It made game 1000x more realistic and better. To hear they are skeptical I say they need to try them and see for themselves the difference.

Knowing your ratings produce low overalls (we all know that doesn't mean anything) and that people, fans, players will freak why not a simple solution of recalculating and coming up with a new formula for overalls? So we use lower spread out real data for ratings for areas such as speed, strength, acceleration, agility, etc. then with recalculated formulas that even with a 82 speed and 81 accel added with other specific positional ratings could still produce higher overalls? Couldn't this be a simple recalculation of formulas to produce this so everyone wins. It's probably harder than that but could this not be feasible? Then we have tom Brady with 98 overall but he has real ratings with the data backed up in the areas I mentioned above. Maybe even make speed, strength, accel, agility not even factor in for overall ratings? It's just spread out to separate players appropriately in key areas that in itself is a game changer. Idk just thinking outside of box...

I agree 100% and I already have that formula for the new OVRs....just need to put it in the game. The funny thing is that a guy like Aaron Rodgers will have the same grades but his overall grade is like 9.42, which is basically a 94 in Madden. The only difference is that the darn OVR calculator in Madden is wrong and doesn't match the data source. If I could use my data with my data's OVR grade calculation, things would be fine. We can still use the 0-100 overall, but I still believe that going from 0.0 to 5.0 for all attributes and 0-10.0 for all overall scores is the best way to go because that is how the scouts in this department do it. Why deviate from a REAL system???

[charter04]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Hold on guys.

When I said 'competitive balance' I am referring to overall game balance. User vs. User and User vs. CPU. When we have tried these types of ratings changes in the past, it would negatively impact that balance to the degree that I was not comfortable moving forward with it for the good of the game.

Competitive balance (overall game balance and playability) is inseparable from generating authentic outcomes. The two go hand in hand.

When I referred to 'community sourced' ratings, that could mean anything. It started out with us reaching out to the most respected and well known ratings sites out there. Don't automatically assume this will turn into a PR driven 'cover vote' style thing, that is not our intent. We want to figure out the best way to involve and utilize the community moving forward in generating a ratings system that represents the best thing for the game.

Finally I want to mention that Donny Moore shared this vision of fewer elites and greater ratings spread. It is a shared goal we are actively working towards.

Thanks for the clarification. I would love to see ratings based on real data. I would love to have the stretched out ratings that are being mentioned.

I personally have used the FBG rosters in Madden 15 a lot and IMO it makes the game play more realistic. The animations and overall look of the game is better. It's still just as challenging though because all players are toned down.

It makes the game engine shine and actually adds to the work you guys have put into the game as far as game play.

I know there are probably some hurtles to overcome with the lower overall ratings and how people might respond but, there has to be a way to make it work.






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