Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

I am missing the point on bringing in M11 and M12 and 100 speed threshold...The game is made around 50 threshold, for one thing, and we are headed into M16...

And distance between speed rating and acceleration rating, or closeness, is not important..What matters is the use of consistency and accuracy of data; the best way to do that is through the use of actual scouting grades...

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

I am missing the point on bringing in M11 and M12 and 100 speed threshold...The game is made around 50 threshold, for one thing, and we are headed into M16...

And distance between speed rating and acceleration rating, or closeness, is not important..What matters is the use of consistency and accuracy of data; the best way to do that is through the use of actual scouting grades...

The big thing is that we get it right, so we avoid the real head-scratchers. If a player is rated x in y category, I want an explanation for that...beyond "well, I saw it on youtube".

When I got started in coaching high school ball back in 2005, the first thing the staff did, before I ever even got to step on the field with actual players, was teach me to analyze film. that led to my involvement as a scout with NFLDS shortly after. You have to be trained on what to look for. Using stuff like youtube videos is OK if you have trained eyes analyzing it.

However, I fully submit that there are professional scouts who are paid to do a way better job than me. These guys have been doing it for years. If you were privy to the data that they use, wouldn't you use it knowing that the source is legit? I sure would.

Once you have a valid source, you then need a valid way of interpreting it. That is why I turned to some contacts at TAMU that I made while I was a GA there. The opinions I sought were those of, once again, trained professionals with PhDs in their fields. Others were former strength coaches for college and professional teams. One other source I utilized is a guru on Wall Street - he taught me a ton about analyzing trends in the data.

The point being is this: your outcomes are only as good as your sources. Who has EA claimed to utilize in developing their ratings models? I heard a lot about PFF and Youtube over the years, but not much aside from that and "various sources on the internet". Did they use any academic scholarship to cite why they did what they did with ratings? I do! There is a ton of literature on determining strength and power out there by some really good researchers. Why wasn't this stuff being used? It's out there and the validity seems to be legitimate.

Once you get all the sources and methods in line, then you make sure that everything is done uniformly. Rate every player using the same method and let the chips fall as they may. Once you do that, you will get data that is true to your methods and sources. Then, when people ask you why you rated a player the way you did, you can justify it with the source and the method, without any bias on the analyst's part.

Wouldn't that be the logical course of action?

[SolidSquid]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

The big thing is that we get it right, so we avoid the real head-scratchers. If a player is rated x in y category, I want an explanation for that...beyond "well, I saw it on youtube".

When I got started in coaching high school ball back in 2005, the first thing the staff did, before I ever even got to step on the field with actual players, was teach me to analyze film. that led to my involvement as a scout with NFLDS shortly after. You have to be trained on what to look for. Using stuff like youtube videos is OK if you have trained eyes analyzing it.

However, I fully submit that there are professional scouts who are paid to do a way better job than me. These guys have been doing it for years. If you were privy to the data that they use, wouldn't you use it knowing that the source is legit? I sure would.

Once you have a valid source, you then need a valid way of interpreting it. That is why I turned to some contacts at TAMU that I made while I was a GA there. The opinions I sought were those of, once again, trained professionals with PhDs in their fields. Others were former strength coaches for college and professional teams. One other source I utilized is a guru on Wall Street - he taught me a ton about analyzing trends in the data.

The point being is this: your outcomes are only as good as your sources. Who has EA claimed to utilize in developing their ratings models? I heard a lot about PFF and Youtube over the years, but not much aside from that and "various sources on the internet". Did they use any academic scholarship to cite why they did what they did with ratings? I do! There is a ton of literature on determining strength and power out there by some really good researchers. Why wasn't this stuff being used? It's out there and the validity seems to be legitimate.

Once you get all the sources and methods in line, then you make sure that everything is done uniformly. Rate every player using the same method and let the chips fall as they may. Once you do that, you will get data that is true to your methods and sources. Then, when people ask you why you rated a player the way you did, you can justify it with the source and the method, without any bias on the analyst's part.

Wouldn't that be the logical course of action?

Hey man the whole point of having a czar is that you don't need no stinking sources! His word is gospel.

But seriously thank you for all you do. You make madden enjoyable for me as you can feel a real difference between players. Quick question, if they allow global editing in CCM would you release a way for us to use your methods to re-rate rookies? It sucks not being able to use your rosters in CCM bc drafted rookies throw off the balance.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Hey man the whole point of having a czar is that you don't need no stinking sources! His word is gospel.

But seriously thank you for all you do. You make madden enjoyable for me as you can feel a real difference between players. Quick question, if they allow global editing in CCM would you release a way for us to use your methods to re-rate rookies? It sucks not being able to use your rosters in CCM bc drafted rookies throw off the balance.

Thanks man. Make sure you sign the petition.

http://www.operationsports.com/forum...en-titles.html

Global editing of rookies and the roster in general would fix everything. I would make a page on how to do this on the site so anyone could make the rookies fit the way that I rate players. Simply opening up the editing would make this game better.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

The big thing is that we get it right, so we avoid the real head-scratchers. If a player is rated x in y category, I want an explanation for that...beyond "well, I saw it on youtube".

When I got started in coaching high school ball back in 2005, the first thing the staff did, before I ever even got to step on the field with actual players, was teach me to analyze film. that led to my involvement as a scout with NFLDS shortly after. You have to be trained on what to look for. Using stuff like youtube videos is OK if you have trained eyes analyzing it.

However, I fully submit that there are professional scouts who are paid to do a way better job than me. These guys have been doing it for years. If you were privy to the data that they use, wouldn't you use it knowing that the source is legit? I sure would.

Once you have a valid source, you then need a valid way of interpreting it. That is why I turned to some contacts at TAMU that I made while I was a GA there. The opinions I sought were those of, once again, trained professionals with PhDs in their fields. Others were former strength coaches for college and professional teams. One other source I utilized is a guru on Wall Street - he taught me a ton about analyzing trends in the data.

The point being is this: your outcomes are only as good as your sources. Who has EA claimed to utilize in developing their ratings models? I heard a lot about PFF and Youtube over the years, but not much aside from that and "various sources on the internet". Did they use any academic scholarship to cite why they did what they did with ratings? I do! There is a ton of literature on determining strength and power out there by some really good researchers. Why wasn't this stuff being used? It's out there and the validity seems to be legitimate.

Once you get all the sources and methods in line, then you make sure that everything is done uniformly. Rate every player using the same method and let the chips fall as they may. Once you do that, you will get data that is true to your methods and sources. Then, when people ask you why you rated a player the way you did, you can justify it with the source and the method, without any bias on the analyst's part.

Wouldn't that be the logical course of action?

THat would be the logical course of action...I have been aware of the difficulties of scouting and taking one source of information in one form and accurately transferring it into another form that still represents the original data..

It is similar to translating one language to another....The Bible being a perfect example there....

The result can only be as good as the source, but then a lot can be lost if it isn't translated properly into its new form, such as Madden ratings...

It is a MUST to have everything going in uniform, in the same direction under the same method; makes the difference between having a good football team and a great one, for example..

[PGaither84]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Yeah. As I said, it was about 4 years ago we had that talk, so I am bit fuzzy on the specific ratings and examples of individual players you had. I just know it was like an 11 page thread that went into great detail and was the only point that I, or anyone once had a disagreement with you on. As I recall it as settled and I think you have a better system, in part thanks to that long talk. I think what you wrote is the best answer NOW. (not what you had years ago, which was my whole point... that I support you )


==========

I was just talking about speed threshold and all that as a way to improve the game experience that we have with the most current versions of Madden.

The complete lack of "engaged player movement" on the offensive/defensive lines makes any outside runs a joke. If you watch any film break down of Alex Gibbs and his zone blocking scheme, you will quickly notice how Madden looks NOTHING like real life line play.

Here is a picture of Green 18 HO Force




This is an OUTSIDE ZONE play. The job of the HB is to read 1 to 2 from outside starting with the DE and working in. The DE plays with his helmet outside (outside hat). The back sees this and goes to 2, which is the DT. The DT is also playing outside hat, so the back plants his foot and goes up field instead of bouncing out. Tn the video, Coach Gibbs talks about how people incorrectly call this a "cut back" run when the HB doesn't really cut back at all. He just goes right down the pipe where he was headed in the first place instead of bouncing outside.

Notice how far both the offensive and defensive lines gets horizontally on this play. The Center starts inside the right hash and ends up 5 or so yards outside it. Notice the LT starts just left of center field and ends up outside the right hash mark. That is a lot of "engaged player movement" we have never seen in Madden before.

So, while I can continue to complain about it, and I do from time to time, I tend to just accept it begrudgingly and try my best to adjust the ratings and sliders and internal settings to give me the best game play experience I can squeeze out of Madden, and suggest ways for other people to do the same.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

This is an OUTSIDE ZONE play. The job of the HB is to read 1 to 2 from outside in starting with the DE and working in. The DE plays with his helmet outside, so the back goes to 2, which is the DT. He is also playing outside hat, so the back puts his plants his foot and goes up field instead of bouncing out.

Notice how far both the offensive and defensive lines gets horizontally on this play. The Center starts inside the right hash and ends up 5 or so yards outside it. Notice the LT starts just left of center field and ends up outside the right hash mark. That is a lot of "engaged player movement" we have never seen in Madden before.

So, while I can continue to complain about it, and I do from time to time, I tend to just accept it begrudgingly and try my best to adjust the ratings and sliders and internal settings to give me the best game play experience I can squeeze out of Madden, and suggest ways for other people to do the same.

Totally agree.

The lack of movement on the OL is a huge issue. So many teams run a ZBS these days, that it needs to be done better in the game. The days of standing pat in your place on the field as if frozen into the ground are over. This needs to be represented better.

[Rysumm]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Not sure if Donny is working on the game this year but the ratings are horrible. Hope it's not a result of the new guy or we could have some real problems with ratings in the future.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Not sure if Donny is working on the game this year but the ratings are horrible. Hope it's not a result of the new guy or we could have some real problems with ratings in the future.

Dustin Smith, the EA "Equipment Guru" is doing the ratings this year. Apparently most people here at OS think he is doing about the same quality of work as Donny did. There was a poll topic/thread around here somewhere but I can't find it at the moment.

Pastapadre also found a twitter thread by Dustin Smith alluding to the fact that the ratings may be making a big change in the future. Smith also said on a thread here that he "has a plan for the overall rating" in the future.

It seems as if some big things may be happening with the ratings, but the plan is not yet public. Without getting into details, EA is still in contact with me and the FBG Ratings team, discussing possible involvement. The premise of the idea is interesting, alas it must still be OK'd by the production team at EA. Maybe we will have more information on that later.

[KANE699]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Not sure if Donny is working on the game this year but the ratings are horrible. Hope it's not a result of the new guy or we could have some real problems with ratings in the future.

Appreciate the kind words, thanks!

[Gman 18]

Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Appreciate the kind words, thanks!

You guys should really start to use real data to get ratings. Having one guy entirely do the ratings makes the ratings gimmicky/opinionated and not based on what you actually see on the field. Thats part of the reason many people still see madden as an arcadish game as opposed to a sim game. FBG ratings are the way to go.


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[Jarodd21]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Appreciate the kind words, thanks!

So your the reason why a lot of the Cowboy players are overrated? Haha!

[Millennium]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

You guys should really start to use real data to get ratings. Having one guy entirely do the ratings makes the ratings gimmicky/opinionated and not based on what you actually see on the field. Thats part of the reason many people still see madden as an arcadish game as opposed to a sim game. FBG ratings are the way to go.


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Out of curiosity - Do you have the documentation showing what they use to create/update the ratings? Surely you do since you accuse a dev of being "gimmicky/opinionated".

This is your official warning - We don't take kindly to disrespectful/nonconstructive posting to anyone, much less the devs that take time out to come here and interact.

[charter04]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

So your the reason why a lot of the Cowboy players are overrated? Haha!

No way. My Cowboys should be 99's across the board. Eli should be a 40 overall. [emoji23][emoji6]


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[ggsimmonds]

Re: Donny Moore, the 'Madden Ratings Czar', Leaving EA

Out of curiosity - Do you have the documentation showing what they use to create/update the ratings? Surely you do since you accuse a dev of being "gimmicky/opinionated".

This is your official warning - We don't take kindly to disrespectful/nonconstructive posting to anyone, much less the devs that take time out to come here and interact.

I don't think there was anything disrespectful about his post. The way I read it he expressed his dissatisfaction and did so in an acceptable way. Sure, he didn't word it the best way he could have, but it was hardly worthy of a "warning."