Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 Tight Ends

[BreakingBad2013]

Re: Madden 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 TEs Revealed

And this is why going simply off data is 100% the wrong way to do it. You have to factor in the obvious common sense at times, and the eye test. Honestly your ratings are much more realistic, and a better way of doing it than Madden, but clearly its not close to being perfect either.

Well, Gronk plays with one of the best passers in the world, he uses his size mostly, over actual technique and skill. He is a obe dimensional route runner, and he had a season where in 6 games he had less than 50 yards.

Brandon Marshall is a much better technical pass catcher thsn Gronk, and unfortunately battled a ton of injuries lsst year, which I feel should lower his ratings.

We're on this Gronk kick like he's a God. The kid is a like foot taller than some DBs, and has a ridiculous size advantage. You'll see more like him soon enough. He's not perfect though, and if he were placed on the Jets, we wouldn't be talking about him.

[sir psycho]

Re: Madden 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 TEs Revealed

I trust the scouts' eyes more than my own.

That pretty much sums up my feelings on this whole subject. If you asked me, who I think is a better player between Gronk and Marshall...for sure I would say Gronkowski. But, the fact is these ratings are coming from real scouts. I trust that they know more about evaluating players than I do. Are they perfect? No...but I'd rather have ratings determined by these scouts than by guys like me just watching football and saying, "Yep, Gronkowski's better...let's make sure he has a higher rating." That last scenario is where we've been for a while with Madden and it doesn't work.

[jshake8]

Re: Madden 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 TEs Revealed

I'm not getting defensive about anything. You clearly are not listening. The scouts make the grades. They make the data. If they say that on the overall scale Gronk < Marshall (by a fraction of the scale...I mean, we are talking about one point here), then I have to abide by it. I am not using simple stats or PFF or anything like that. I am using REAL DATA that is used by a REAL NFL FRONT OFFICE.

How on earth can I question that?

At this point, it is what it is, and if you don't like it, don't use them.

I'm not listening? I've asked you a mostly questions and you've ignored most of them. You're clearly getting defensive man. I understand they make the data. It should absolutely be used, and heavily, but not solely relied upon. You don't HAVE to abide by the data. Actually, doing so is your main flaw. If you watched either player last year, it would be quite obvious as to why Gronk is a much better player. Data can be very, very wrong, and you seem unwilling to account for this. If you want to use the "Real NFL front office" argument here, why not use this information the same way they do? That's the problem. What NFL front offices use as a tool to guide them in evaluation, you're using like scouting bible.

I hope EA understands this, because you don't seem to. You're system could be outstanding if you did more "scouting" of your own to account for the inaccuracies that occur with data.

[bigboyc]

Re: Madden 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 TEs Revealed

I can say it because I don't place my own bias into it and go strictly off of the data. THAT in itself gives me the right to be fair and objective. I have eliminated as many flaws as me and my team can think of by making everything data driven.

Based on the data, I am sitting here and saying that today, Brandon Marshall is a better overall player. Until the data says otherwise, I will stand by it.

And that's why your ratings should not be out of the box. Brandon Marshall is NOT a better player than Gronk. Your data may say that.......but anyone with EYES can see Gronk is the better, more important player.

Ask 32 teams anonymously, who is the better player........32 will say Gronk.

[VdaStampede]

Re: Madden 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 TEs Revealed

Nor do they tell GMs who to draft.

Like in 2007 when the scouts that provide the data to my site had JaMarcus Russell rated a 4.98 the day before the draft. That's barely a 4th round grade.

Don't blame the scouts for GM/owner miscues. It is rare the scouts ever get to pull the trigger. All they do is observe and report.

Don't kill the messengers.

But Russell wasn't even that good. Which should tell you clearly that scouts aren't always right.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Madden 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 TEs Revealed

That pretty much sums up my feelings on this whole subject. If you asked me, who I think is a better player between Gronk and Marshall...for sure I would say Gronkowski. But, the fact is these ratings are coming from real scouts. I trust that they know more about evaluating players than I do. Are they perfect? No...but I'd rather have ratings determined by these scouts than by guys like me just watching football and saying, "Yep, Gronkowski's better...let's make sure he has a higher rating." That last scenario is where we've been for a while with Madden and it doesn't work.

The funny thing is that TEs and WRs are both lumped into the same position grouping, so we can actually compare SOME of their categories apples to apples. Here is a list of a few:

Attribute - Marshall - Gronk
Athleticism in Space: 2.7 - 1.9
Run After Catch: 2.7 - 2.2
Hands: 2.0 - 2.5
Get Open/Adjust to Ball: 2.4 - 2.1
Run Blocking: 0.8 - 1.5
Special Teams Ability: 1.0 - 0.0
Route Running: 3.5 - 4.1
Catch Under Duress: 1.4 - 2.6
Ball Security: 1.2 - 1.0
Injury Holds: 0.4 - 0.4


As you can see, Marshall bests Gronk in 5 categories. Gronk bests Marshall in 4 categories. The weight that each carries in importance to calculating the OVR differs, however.

[The JareBear]

Re: Madden 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 TEs Revealed

And that's why your ratings should not be out of the box. Brandon Marshall is NOT a better player than Gronk. Your data may say that.......but anyone with EYES can see Gronk is the better, more important player.

Ask 32 teams anonymously, who is the better player........32 will say Gronk.

I think we are getting too caught up on the overall rating, honestly.

[yankees028]

Re: Madden 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 TEs Revealed

question for you

I love what you do. I was wondering how do you counter act the rookies that come out at 80+ ratings? what your doing would work perfect with the sliders 2k has with adjusting rookies coming into the league

[ryan36]

Re: Madden NFL 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 Tight Ends

I can't wait to have Wilson rolling out throwing to Graham in the flat...

[jshake8]

Re: Madden 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 TEs Revealed

Well, Gronk plays with one of the best passers in the world, he uses his size mostly, over actual technique and skill. He is a obe dimensional route runner, and he had a season where in 6 games he had less than 50 yards.

Brandon Marshall is a much better technical pass catcher thsn Gronk, and unfortunately battled a ton of injuries lsst year, which I feel should lower his ratings.

We're on this Gronk kick like he's a God. The kid is a like foot taller than some DBs, and has a ridiculous size advantage. You'll see more like him soon enough. He's not perfect though, and if he were placed on the Jets, we wouldn't be talking about him.

You go ahead and ask Tom Brady how skilled Gronk is. Uses his size mostly? I'd say he uses his insane athleticism for a man his size and his unreal hand eye coordination. This is completely outrageous, and I effing hate the Patriots. Brandon Marshall was an average number 2 WR last year. He's declined physically quite a bit, and that physicality was a huge part of his game as well.

There's simply no way anyone who watches the sport can defend ranking Marshall above some of the most dominant players to ever play their respective positions (Calvin, Gronk).

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Madden 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 TEs Revealed

I'm not listening? I've asked you a mostly questions and you've ignored most of them. You're clearly getting defensive man. I understand they make the data. It should absolutely be used, and heavily, but not solely relied upon. You don't HAVE to abide by the data. Actually, doing so is your main flaw. If you watched either player last year, it would be quite obvious as to why Gronk is a much better player. Data can be very, very wrong, and you seem unwilling to account for this. If you want to use the "Real NFL front office" argument here, why not use this information the same way they do? That's the problem. What NFL front offices use as a tool to guide them in evaluation, you're using like scouting bible.

I hope EA understands this, because you don't seem to. You're system could be outstanding if you did more "scouting" of your own to account for the inaccuracies that occur with data.

Dood. I got my start in this whole endeavor as a scout for NFLDS. You likely have no idea about what it really takes to be good at it, professionally. I personally know the people that compile this data and I trust them. I have known some of them for over a decade.

Abiding by the data is the most logical thing to do because it allows me to justify every single rating on the site. The validity is sound. If you don't like that, go make your own site with your own sources. It's that simple. Nothing you say here is going to change the data or my high opinion of the people who get paid to compile it.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Madden 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 TEs Revealed

I think we are getting too caught up on the overall rating, honestly.

LOL do you think? People are arguing over one OVR point because they watch tons of NFL and the Top 100. Geez!

[BreakingBad2013]

Re: Madden 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 TEs Revealed

You go ahead and ask Tom Brady how skilled Gronk is. Uses his size mostly? I'd say he uses his insane athleticism for a man his size and his unreal hand eye coordination. This is completely outrageous, and I effing hate the Patriots. Brandon Marshall was an average number 2 WR last year. He's declined physically quite a bit, and that physicality was a huge part of his game as well.

There's simply no way anyone who watches the sport can defend ranking Marshall above some of the most dominant players to ever play their respective positions (Calvin, Gronk).

How do you judge his hand-eye coordnation over others?

BMarsh had left and right ankle injuries all of last season, and ended it with broken ribs and a collapsed lungs. I'm not sure if you know, but Ankles are going to determine a lot of success as a WR.

I'm not saying Marshall is better than Calvin, but the overall is not what they are measured by in terms of on-the-field action.

[DCEBB2001]

Re: Madden 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 TEs Revealed

You go ahead and ask Tom Brady how skilled Gronk is. Uses his size mostly? I'd say he uses his insane athleticism for a man his size and his unreal hand eye coordination. This is completely outrageous, and I effing hate the Patriots. Brandon Marshall was an average number 2 WR last year. He's declined physically quite a bit, and that physicality was a huge part of his game as well.

There's simply no way anyone who watches the sport can defend ranking Marshall above some of the most dominant players to ever play their respective positions (Calvin, Gronk).

Wasn't Marshall hurt most of the year? From what I remember he had a nagging ankle injury all season as well as a concussion and broken ribs.

[jshake8]

Re: Madden 16 Player Ratings - Top 5 TEs Revealed

The funny thing is that TEs and WRs are both lumped into the same position grouping, so we can actually compare SOME of their categories apples to apples. Here is a list of a few:

Attribute - Marshall - Gronk
Athleticism in Space: 2.7 - 1.9
Run After Catch: 2.7 - 2.2
Hands: 2.0 - 2.5
Get Open/Adjust to Ball: 2.4 - 2.1
Run Blocking: 0.8 - 1.5
Special Teams Ability: 1.0 - 0.0
Route Running: 3.5 - 4.1
Catch Under Duress: 1.4 - 2.6
Ball Security: 1.2 - 1.0
Injury Holds: 0.4 - 0.4


As you can see, Marshall bests Gronk in 5 categories. Gronk bests Marshall in 4 categories. The weight that each carries in importance to calculating the OVR differs, however.

See, this is the problem with strictly using data.

Marshall better after the catch than Gronk!?

Athleticism in space? What kind of number is that? How could you possible boil that down to a number, while accounting for size?